What probability do you feel Ovechkin has to catch Gretzky now?

[HurricaneFanatic]

Yes I do. How many years did McDavid not struggle to get to 40? Why would you think that Gretzky would have done better?

Because a prime Gretzky is better than a prime McDavid?

 

[VVP]

Because a prime Gretzky is better than a prime McDavid?

No, McDavid has a better top speed than Gretzky. This is McDavids advantage. Gretzky wouldn't be scoring more than McDavid.

 

[MadLuke]

No, McDavid has a better top speed than Gretzky. This is McDavids advantage. Gretzky wouldn't be scoring more than McDavid.

Mike Gartner had better top speed than Gretzky (and maybe McDavid) and he outscored him by a giant amount, but it is not like McDavid is particularly struggling to score 40 anyway, he did it 2 times and has been on pace to do it 4 time now, in 6 season.

McDavid has better speed than all rocket winner since McDavid entered the league has well. This is a strange argument.

 

[kmart]

So you think one of the best player ever in is peak would struggle to get close to a 40 goal season in this current high scoring environment ? the game and scoring changed a lot during Jagr, Sakic, Selanne or Pavel Bure career, they were scoring as much in the 2000s than they did in the early 90s and Gretzky was better than all of them.

selene had his goal scoring prime in his rookie season in the early 90s, he never came close to 70 goals again.

the russian rocket posted back to back 60 goal seasons after his rookie year (early 90) u dont want to use him to prove that the scoring the early 90s was just as easy as in 2000 just because he came close again in 2000...

the difference in scoring between those eras is like +1 on average. to think that legends were not affected by this is just wrong.

 

[illpucks]

No, McDavid has a better top speed than Gretzky. This is McDavids advantage. Gretzky wouldn't be scoring more than McDavid.

Gretzky is like RNH frame and speed with 5X IQ and 5X skill

 

[MadLuke]

the russian rocket posted back to back 60 goal seasons after his rookie year (early 90) u dont want to use him to prove that the scoring the early 90s was just as easy as in 2000 just because he came close again in 2000...

I am not using Sakic and Bure to say that scoring was as easy in the early 2000s than early 90s, but those 2 scored about the same in the early 90s than early 2000s (and for Bure that mean before injury versus a long list of them) to say that it is not that automatic that scoring would be down or up in different era, which was I think clearly my point.

Do you think a 21 and 22 year old Bure (is rookie season was at 20 not 18) was much worst at scoring goal than the Bure after all is injury at 28 and 29 ? The argument that the 22 year old Bure before is injury was better than the 28-29 year's old version would be solid in my opinion.

Selanne scoring if you remove expansion team didn't move much between 92-93 and is actually peak later.

the difference in scoring between those eras is like +1 on average. to think that legends were not affected by this is just wrong.

Some were not that much (those mentioned), and mostly those mentioned kept being the best at scoring goal among eras they played, no one is arguing Gretzky would be scoring 92 now, or 75, but that he would be among the best at scoring goal, which from Selanne, Sakic, Lemieux, jagr to bure, a long list of player achieved to do among clear different nhl eras.

Just look at how young Ovechkin goal scoring looked versus Jagr, Kovalchuk, Selanne and how those player looked versus the legend of the past and Ovechkin versus today goalscorer you have a somewhat direct line.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

A bit of remodeling and a new office. Passes Esposito and then starts scoring Esposito like goals. Lol.

 

[MadLuke]

Yes I do. How many years did McDavid not struggle to get to 40? Why would you think that Gretzky would have done better?

For a mental experience change McDavid for Pacioretty, not reaching 40 goals in this era is being worst than peak Pacriotterty able to score 39 in 73 game when scoring was lower than now. Do you really think that Gretzky is significantly inferior to Max Pacioretty, Pavelski, Perry, Phil Kessel, Seguin ?

 

[kicksavedave]

No, McDavid has a better top speed than Gretzky. This is McDavids advantage. Gretzky wouldn't be scoring more than McDavid.

Why do you keep saying such incredibly dumb things? If pure speed was what dictated goal scoring ability, then Carl Hagelin would be a 50 goal scorer. Gretzky had more skill than the rest of the NHL, by far, for most of his career. In an era where people scored 50 a lot, he scored 70-90. In todays era where 50 leads the league, McDavid has barely eclipsed 40 twice. McDavid is not the best goal scorer of his own era, why would you think Gretzky would not be able to beat a guy who's never lead the league in goals? It doesn't even make sense.

If Wayne Gretzky played today he would lead the league in goals just like he did when he played. His shot would be harder and more accurate than it was then, his strength, speed and conditioning would be better than it was then, just like it is for all players vs ones from previous eras. You don't get to say he played against inferior goalies with inferior equipment, but then also suggest that if he played today he would still be using inferior equipment and have inferior skills vs today's players. Thats a logical fallacy.

One thing is clear.... you never watched him play. So you really don't know anything about what you're talking about.

 

[BallardEra]

Lots of disrespect for the Great One in this topic. In today's game he wouldn't have been as small as he was then. He would have adapted to the times and the game.

That means his shot would have been even better today and he would have also been much stronger. He would have taken advantage of the whippy sticks and modern health training advances.

Ask yourself this. If it was so easy to score 894 goals, why isn't Ovechkin also chasing 10 guys ahead of Gretzky?

I love Ovie but at the same time I grew up watching Gretzky.

I've never seen a player like Gretzky ever since.

 

[filinski77]

Lots of disrespect for the Great One in this topic. In today's game he wouldn't have been as small as he was then. He would have adapted to the times and the game.

That means his shot would have been even better today and he would have also been much stronger. He would have taken advantage of the whippy sticks and modern health training advances.

Ask yourself this. If it was so easy to score 894 goals, why isn't Ovechkin also chasing 10 guys ahead of Gretzky?

I love Ovie but at the same time I grew up watching Gretzky.

I've never seen a player like Gretzky ever since.

There’s a handful of posters definitely dragging the great one through the mud (which he 100% doesn’t deserve).

Realistically of course if Wayne played today, he’d still be the best player in the league. But all I’m saying is that in the mid/early 2010’s, him scoring 130 points and 45 goals would still make him the best player when no-ones scoring 100 points, and only Ovi can also score over 42 or something goals.

People can still talk and talk about Wayne getting whippier sticks and better equipment, but he still gets the better goaltending, bigger equipment etc. Which results in a significantly lower scoring environment when you take ALL of those factors into consideration.

Gretzky reached 894 because he was one of the best goal scorers of all time, played in the highest scoring era of all time, and played some of the most games of all time (17th all time for forwards). That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t still be the best player today. It was a perfect storm.

None of his contemporaries reached close to his total because guys like Bossy and Lemieux had bad injuries, and the other guys only had 3-5 great seasons before declining. This is not at all different than looking at Ovechkin, who's chasing 800 goals right now, and his peers are chasing 500.

Other than Marleau who has like 50% more games played, Ovechkin has 50%+ more goals than his peers since he entered the league. That’s the equivalent of no one scoring 600 compared to Wayne.

 

[Randyne]

Ask yourself this. If it was so easy to score 894 goals, why isn't Ovechkin also chasing 10 guys ahead of Gretzky?

Not 10 but 3 guys just missed the highest scoring era. They could score similar numbers if they started in 1979 (staying healthy):

Goals if they played the same amount of games as Gretzky in that era:
Mario Lemieux 863
Brett Hull 810
Mike Bossy 786
Wayne Gretzky 765

 

[Sentinel]

He kinda made them HOFers though. You think Kurri (600 goals) gets even 500 and multiple Cups without Gretzky as his linemate for most of career? Or Fuhr? Even Paul Coffey wouldn’t be a lock, I don’t think.

You may want to look up Kurri's and Coffey's stats WITHOUT Gretzky, before pronouncing such nonsense.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

It seems like this Era hockey fans don't want to admit that the greats of the past just might have been that good...maybe Gretzky was/is light years better than anyone who has strapped on blades since him....

Because it isn't true and nothing supports it being true. It isn't true for any sport and no other major sport has changed as much as hockey has. I think people try and over-complicate this when the answers are right in front of them.

If we say Gretzky's era was much easier to score in, which it factually was, it is not a slight on Gretzky because he was still far and away the best during it. But saying that 92 goals is the standard and applying that on a flat line to today's era is just stupid. Gretzky would be lucky to score 50 goals in today's NHL and considering he's only done that one more time than Ovechkin (They should actually be tied but Ovi was robbed of this last year by 2 goals) it's likely Ovechkin is just the better goal scorer historically. Saying players from past eras were just better is supported by nothing we understand about sports in general, let alone hockey. That doesn't mean the elite of that era wouldn't still be great, they would, but the point and goal totals would be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced by playing over the last 15 years.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Thirty-forty years from now, someone will write "Ovechkin's prime was before hockey got big in Asia. There were no nifty Chinese defensemen back then. Ovie would score around 25 goals a season had he played today (read 2055). I hope you can be there to defend Ovie, and at the same time realize you own Wayne an apology.

I mean, Asians historically do not excel at athletics that require size. There are outliers of course, but there aren't a ton of 6'2 225lbs Chinese males walking around. Unless genetically that changes in 20 years your example holds zero weight. They aren't going to be bigger, stronger or faster than what we have because genetically that isn't what constitutes the average Asian man, that's not changing. It makes far more sense that the Nordic and European infusion, along with even more American players is about as big of a talent infusion the game will ever see, for obvious reason.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

In the middle of DPE, with plenty of Europeans playing, an old, broken shell of Gretzky lead his team in goals on its way to the Conference Finals.

A young, healthy, motivated Gretzky would tear this league apart, in goals, assists, points, and everything else.

No he wouldn't. I love him, he's the GOAT. He would not lead the league in goals in the modern era.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

100%

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Gretzky is the greatest player of all time. His hockey IQ was head and shoulders above anyone else in NHL history. I have no doubt that he would still score 60+ in today’s game. That is if he chose to focus on goal scoring. I am sure the Great Gretzky would be able to put up 150-160 points in today’s game.

Gretzky would not score 60 goals in the NHL today, stop it. He has neither the shot, size or speed to be elite at it today. I was born and raised in the mans hometown, I'm as big of a fan there is but we need to stop with the rose tinted glasses here.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

best slapshot in NHL history

Laughable

 

[Sentinel]

No he wouldn't. I love him, he's the GOAT. He would not lead the league in goals in the modern era.

This is purely theoretical and there is no way to test it. But I have all the evidence that he would and you have none.

Sakic and Selanne lead the post-lockout league in goals. Gretzky was a better goalscorer than both of them.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

This is purely theoretical and there is no way to test it. But I have all the evidence that he would and you have none.

Sakic and Selanne lead the post-lockout league in goals. Gretzky was a better goalscorer than both of them.

I think if you put Selanne and Sakic carte blanche and dropped them in the league from 79-85 they'd absolutely annihilate the NHL goal scoring wise. We can never prove this but Gretzky doesn't have any of the tools that constitute what an elite goal scorer needs in today's NHL and it's ludicrous to think he'd come in and just score 60 when no one does this now.

 

[VVP]

Gretzky was great and his hockey IQ was through the roof. Dont put words in my mouth, I never disrespected him. Prime Gretzky in today's NHL would still be getting total points close to McDavid, likely end up top 3 to top 5 most years and possibly be scoring 35-37 goals. That is not disrespectful, these are amazing numbers for highly competitive league.

 

[Confused Turnip]

He kinda made them HOFers though. You think Kurri (600 goals) gets even 500 and multiple Cups without Gretzky as his linemate for most of career? Or Fuhr? Even Paul Coffey wouldn’t be a lock, I don’t think.

They largely continued their career trajectories and won another cup after he left.

 

[Sentinel]

I think if you put Selanne and Sakic carte blanche and dropped them in the league from 79-85 they'd absolutely annihilate the NHL goal scoring wise. We can never prove this but Gretzky doesn't have any of the tools that constitute what an elite goal scorer needs in today's NHL and it's ludicrous to think he'd come in and just score 60 when no one does this now.

He would score 80+, and you cannot prove otherwise. You can only measure Ovechkin against Sakic and Sakic against Gretzky. And we know where Gretzky was wrt Sakic.

Gretzky in a time machine, with better equipment, better sticks, no red line, no "Gretzky rule," no Semenko on his wing, and goalies who drop to their knees as soon as forward enters the zone, would set the league on fire.

 

[Sentinel]

Gretzky was great and his hockey IQ was through the roof. Dont put words in my mouth, I never disrespected him. Prime Gretzky in today's NHL would still be getting total points close to McDavid, likely end up top 3 to top 5 most years and possibly be scoring 35-37 goals. That is not disrespectful, these are amazing numbers for highly competitive league.

No, bro, that's highly disrespectful. Gretzky would dominate McDavid the same way he dominated Trottier, Dionne, and all other superb players of his era.