What junior leagues are the best?

[NTDP]

Without question if counting the USHL players who leave for NCAA.

It last draft:
USHL: 16 teams, 49 players drafted
CHL: 60 teams, 89 players drafted

In the last draft for the USHL there were 18 players drafted from the 15 member clubs (I didn't count the NTDP). I did this real quick while at work so I don't know if I missed a name or two in scanning the 7 rounds. I excluded Cole Sillinger as he would have played in the WHL another year if it weren't for COVID.

In other years it's been higher, I don't remember the 2019 numbers but they were much better from the regular USHL teams. It's cyclical and in some years it's lower than others.

I'm a big fan of the USHL and like to promote the league, because it's truly a great junior league and when you look at players down the line that go NCAA, I'm sure the numbers are up there with the other junior leagues when those kids get pro looks coming out of college.

 

[Favin]

In the last draft for the USHL there were 18 players drafted from the 15 member clubs (I didn't count the NTDP). I did this real quick while at work so I don't know if I missed a name or two in scanning the 7 rounds. I excluded Cole Sillinger as he would have played in the WHL another year if it weren't for COVID.

In other years it's been higher, I don't remember the 2019 numbers but they were much better from the regular USHL teams. It's cyclical and in some years it's lower than others.

I'm a big fan of the USHL and like to promote the league, because it's truly a great junior league and when you look at players down the line that go NCAA, I'm sure the numbers are up there with the other junior leagues when those kids get pro looks coming out of college.

18? A lot more than that. There 15 from NTDP and another 8 from Chicago Steel.

 

[Wintersun]

Really wonder why the Q is considered the weaker canadian league every single time. I still remember Team Quebec winning the last Canada Games with the 2003s. I can see Bailey Peach being PPG in the WHL right now after not making it as a 20 years old in the Q this year. Even at the last U17 Team Canada camp, most of the top producers in the camp were the Q players (Gauthier, Peddle, Collard, Morin, Cataford, etc...). They aren't weaker than the other two leagues to me. Some say that the Q is weaker defensively and it's easier to produce in it, but I'd actually say it's a very tight game compared to the open game of the OHL.

All in all, it is all cyclical, some years one league will be better than another. I don't think the Q is better than the W or the O, but I don't think these two have any real superiority either.

As for the USHL, to me there is a gap between it and the CHL. Execution level is much weaker, I think there is less skill and less IQ in that league. If I watch a USHL game then a QMJHL/OHL/WHL game after, I see the difference pretty clearly.

Nothing wrong with the USHL though, I think it's a solid league as well.

 

[Favin]

In the last draft for the USHL there were 18 players drafted from the 15 member clubs (I didn't count the NTDP). I did this real quick while at work so I don't know if I missed a name or two in scanning the 7 rounds. I excluded Cole Sillinger as he would have played in the WHL another year if it weren't for COVID.

In other years it's been higher, I don't remember the 2019 numbers but they were much better from the regular USHL teams. It's cyclical and in some years it's lower than others.

I'm a big fan of the USHL and like to promote the league, because it's truly a great junior league and when you look at players down the line that go NCAA, I'm sure the numbers are up there with the other junior leagues when those kids get pro looks coming out of college.

Tally it up, but I think its around 52

Cedar Rapids (1): Flinton
Chicago (8): Power, Coronato, Samoskevich, Doan, Blake, Ufko, Bar, Lipkin
Dubuque (2): Buyalsky, Svedeback
Fargo (3): Morrow, Peart, Broz
Green Bay (1): Lamb
Lincoln (2): Lopina, Lemay
Madison (1): Kukkonen
Muskegon (3): Berg, Gagne, Kempf
Omaha (1): Martino
Sioux City (3): Buium, McLaughlin, Laatsch
Sioux Falls (4): Sillinger, Nause, Johnson, Thomas
Tri-City (5): Knies, Mazur, Richard, Benoit, Clark
US NTDP (16): Beniers, Hughes, Boucher, Lucius, Behrens, Pastujov, Hreschuk, Schmidt, Savage, Duke, Murchison, Gilmartin, Janicke, Kelley, Gasseau, Gallagher
Youngstown (2): Sardariayn, Lachance

 

[Corso]

Tally it up, but I think its around 52

Cedar Rapids (1): Flinton
Chicago (8): Power, Coronato, Samoskevich, Doan, Blake, Ufko, Bar, Lipkin
Dubuque (2): Buyalsky, Svedeback
Fargo (3): Morrow, Peart, Broz
Green Bay (1): Lamb
Lincoln (2): Lopina, Lemay
Madison (1): Kukkonen
Muskegon (3): Berg, Gagne, Kempf
Omaha (1): Martino
Sioux City (3): Buium, McLaughlin, Laatsch
Sioux Falls (4): Sillinger, Nause, Johnson, Thomas
Tri-City (5): Knies, Mazur, Richard, Benoit, Clark
US NTDP (16): Beniers, Hughes, Boucher, Lucius, Behrens, Pastujov, Hreschuk, Schmidt, Savage, Duke, Murchison, Gilmartin, Janicke, Kelley, Gasseau, Gallagher
Youngstown (2): Sardariayn, Lachance

No question there are many players who once played in the USHL that were drafted but going back to my original point, how many of those players were either playing in the league when they were drafted or returned to the league the following year? That is why the USHL is somewhat handicapped when compared to say the OHL. The majority of recently drafted OHL players return to the league the following two years and that is why the CHL is considered a step (although certainly not a significant step) above the USHL.

 

[NTDP]

No question there are many players who once played in the USHL that were drafted but going back to my original point, how many of those players were either playing in the league when they were drafted or returned to the league the following year? That is why the USHL is somewhat handicapped when compared to say the OHL. The majority of recently drafted OHL players return to the league the following two years and that is why the CHL is considered a step (although certainly not a significant step) above the USHL.

This pretty much sums it up. And Favin you’re not wrong, I was just pointing out how many players got drafted that played a full season in the USHL last year, excluding the NTDP and Cole Sillinger because he would have been in the WHL again if it weren’t for COVID delaying their season.

 

[landy92mack29]

Measuring league strength on how many draft picks there is isn't exactly a truly accurate way of measuring it. NHL teams from the 4th round on heavily lean kids on the 4 year route(College/Europe) over CHL kids as they have rights for 2 years. The true way is seeing how many Pro hockey players they produce(AHL/NHL players) as many undrafted CHLers play ahl while a lot of drafted kids never see pro hockey.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I remember getting criticized for saying the Chicago Steel teams that had Power, Brisson, Samoskevich, Coronato, to name a few, would beat the Ottawa team with Rossi and Quinn. I thought I was being conservative in suggesting USHL was behind the W and O, but ahead of the Q. Interesting debate though and some very convincing arguments. I would probably still rank them like that. USHL doesn’t retain talent because the players go to the NCAA. If CHL players could play in the AHL, I think USHL would be first.

 

[Killerjas]

OHL
WHL
Sweden U20
USHL/Finland U20/QMJHL
MHL
BCHL/AJHL/other countries U20 (Czech, Germany, Switzerland)

This is the way

 

[Eye of Ra]

According to people in a WJC thread in the international section, Swedish junior program is worse than Belarus/Latvian/Kazaksthan junior programs. Now we know. Swedish junior leagues is not even top 40.

 

[Kuracmugger]

The Swiss u20 league’s problem is that the best players leave after they’re second u17 year and the teams fill up with many players that aren’t really good enough for the league. The problem is that also there are many players who play in the second tier swiss league because the u20 elit isn’t good enough. The other players leave for north america or sweden. The reason because they’re leaving is the lack of opportunity to play for the first team in the swiss national league so you can’t really blame them for leaving in their draft year. Swiss ice hockey tried to make the league better by allowing teams to play with „overagers“, players who are 1 year older than the allowed born years so this year 2001. at the moment you’re allowed to have 2 but next season you can play with 4 overagers.

 

[bigdog16]

OHL
WHL
Sweden U20
USHL/Finland U20/QMJHL
MHL
BCHL/AJHL/other countries U20 (Czech, Germany, Switzerland)

This is the way

The top 4 are the CHL leagues and the USHL. Not much to debate about there. There is a sizeable gap after those 4

 

[Killerjas]

The top 4 are the CHL leagues and the USHL. Not much to debate about there. There is a sizeable gap after those 4

Disagree, the U20 from Sweden is a better league then the Q

 

[nyr2k2]

Either OHL or WHL
USHL
QMJHL
J20 Nationell
MHL
U20 SM-sarja

I don't know enough about other countries or the Junior A leagues to pretend to have an opinion on them.

EDIT: I'm also ranking them in terms of "strength," i.e. how the leagues stack up overall in talent relative to each other. Take a league like the J20 Nationell, they do an excellent job developing their players. They have to; it's a development league feeding into the parent programs. That's not really the case in junior programs in North America, who are more focused on winning than they are purely on developing players.

 

[SimGrindcore]

Tally it up, but I think its around 52

Cedar Rapids (1): Flinton
Chicago (8): Power, Coronato, Samoskevich, Doan, Blake, Ufko, Bar, Lipkin
Dubuque (2): Buyalsky, Svedeback
Fargo (3): Morrow, Peart, Broz
Green Bay (1): Lamb
Lincoln (2): Lopina, Lemay
Madison (1): Kukkonen
Muskegon (3): Berg, Gagne, Kempf
Omaha (1): Martino
Sioux City (3): Buium, McLaughlin, Laatsch
Sioux Falls (4): Sillinger, Nause, Johnson, Thomas
Tri-City (5): Knies, Mazur, Richard, Benoit, Clark
US NTDP (16): Beniers, Hughes, Boucher, Lucius, Behrens, Pastujov, Hreschuk, Schmidt, Savage, Duke, Murchison, Gilmartin, Janicke, Kelley, Gasseau, Gallagher
Youngstown (2): Sardariayn, Lachance

Nause played all year with Quebec City Remparts of the QMJHL. Power played in the NCAA. Sillinger would have been a 1st round pick even if he would have played in Medecine Hat. He only played in Sioux Falls because the WHL season was delayed ... A LOT. Like Matthew Savoie did.

USNTDP is something else.

So 33 players of the regular USHL.

 

[SimGrindcore]

What is your argument that Czech u20 is better than Superelit and SM Sarja?

It's based on the NHL equivalency of points in each league in 2020.

League	NHLe
Czech U20	0.121
SuperElit	0.114
SM Sarja	0.094

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Favin]

I don't have the best answer to compare these leagues, but I know measuring largely leagues with different rules/customs just doesn't work. I guess, either...

(a) compare all players that have come our of that league, including players that have moved on to college or professional leagues.
(b) compare only 18 & under or undrafted players from these leagues.

Nause played all year with Quebec City Remparts of the QMJHL. Power played in the NCAA. Sillinger would have been a 1st round pick even if he would have played in Medecine Hat. He only played in Sioux Falls because the WHL season was delayed ... A LOT. Like Matthew Savoie did.

USNTDP is something else.

So 33 players of the regular USHL.

Power played for Chicago Steel.
Nause had been on Sioux Falls before QMJHL
Sillinger was on Sioux Falls after WHL (and he was a 1st round pick)
And US NTDP is a team in USHL, technically, but yes hard to include a team that doesn't go through normal league rules (drafts, trades, etc)

So...52 if one includes all current and former. Smaller if you count off the college players, NTDP players, etc. There is no apples-to-apples comparison.

The top 4 are the CHL leagues and the USHL. Not much to debate about there. There is a sizeable gap after those 4

Yes, huge.

But some of those European leagues lose their best players to their pro leagues sooner, so a real comparison would be to include former junior players in men's leagues that are still junior-aged.

(Europe really should combine their best-of-best from Euro area into single elite junior league...that would be fun)

 

[93LEAFS]

Historically, it is the OHL over the past 20 or so years. The OHL almost never gets undrafted WHL or QMJHL kids, whereas its not uncommon at all to see undrafted Ontario kids in the Q, and occasionally in the WHL. And, the NTDP program is so unique it's hard to add them outright to the USHL. They play a ton of NCAA games and international tournaments.

 

[Eye of Ra]

It's based on the NHL equivalency of points in each league in 2020.

League	NHLe
Czech U20	0.121
SuperElit	0.114
SM Sarja	0.094

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Intresting. Normally people say Czech u20 is weak.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Disagree, the U20 from Sweden is a better league then the Q

You would be wrong then.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Intresting. Normally people say Czech u20 is weak.

Yeah, that's a joke. It's probably facilitated by most of the best Czech prospects being out of it by the age 17 so sets of data numbers become completely skewed.

 

[cleveland408]

(Europe really should combine their best-of-best from Euro area into single elite junior league...that would be fun)

Kind of like a European junior champions league...that sounds interesting.

 

[Tripledeke333]

Im not looking at the quantity of first round picks - i’m looking at the quality of picks.

Since 2010 - the USHL has produced players like Matthews, Keller, Zegras, Hughes (x2), Knight, Tkachuk (x2), Eichel, Werenski, Boeser, Larkin, Jones, Trouba, Miller and Hayes.

Now I know for a fact the WHL doesn't have that kind of track record, and thats not even mentioning the past two drafts where the USHL took home the bacon.

Im not convinced.

The WHL has produced Leon Draisaitl, Brayden Point, Seth Jones, Mark Stone, Mathew Barzal, Jamie Benn, Ivan Provorov, Morgan Reilly, Ryan Getzlaf, Dunkan Keith.

 

[DatDude44]

The OHL and WHL are basically the USHL if all the high end 18-20 year olds didn't leave to play NCAA.....the fact the USHL is as high a quality as it is with it's best players moving out year after year is unreal......

 

[DatDude44]

Im not convinced.

The WHL has produced Leon Draisaitl, Brayden Point, Seth Jones, Mark Stone, Mathew Barzal, Jamie Benn, Ivan Provorov, Morgan Reilly, Ryan Getzlaf, Dunkan Keith.

Benn, Getzlaf and keith were drafted well before 2010....and seth jones was ntdp first...... he didn't even mention schwartz and many others from USHL....