What junior leagues are the best?

[Antiillafire]

would you say slovak u20 is better than Superelit?

No not at all. Superelit is much better

 

[Eye of Ra]

Yeah, isn't it obvious?

better than u20-elit, which is switzerland junior league, probaly.

it might also be better than superelit, which is swedish junior league. if we gonna look at slovak born 2002-2003-2004-2005, they seems to be stronger than swedish born 2002-2003-2004-2005. and almost all players from slovakia and sweden comes via junior leagues in respective country. once again i have underated slovakian league .

 

[Antiillafire]

better than u20-elit, which is switzerland junior league, probaly.

it might also be better than superelit, which is swedish junior league. if we gonna look at slovak born 2002-2003-2004-2005, they seems to be stronger than swedish born 2002-2003-2004-2005. and almost all players from slovakia and sweden comes via junior leagues in respective country. once again i have underated slovakian league .

I’d say Swiss league is still better than Slovak league and superelit is better than both. If it wasn’t, than guys like Ciernik and Cajkovic would have stayed in slovakia. I think Slovak u20 league is on par or a bit better than DNL. Slovak 2002,2003 age groups are nowhere close to Swedes. The 04s are probably even and it remains to be seen about 05s but Sweden is most likely better because of excellent depth.

 

[Favin]

I disagree with your comment on the USHL though. Just last year, 3 of the top 5 picks, 4 of the top 10, 6 of the top 15, 7 of the top 20, 8 of the top 30, and 10 of the top 40 (I won't count Scott Morrow and Zachary Bolduc) played in the USHL. Right in line with, if not ahead of, CHL leagues.

I think 49 total draft picks came from USHL, far more than WHL (32), OHL (32), QMJHL (25), J20 (24), MHL (23).

If one counts the college players that came out of USHL, it should unquestionably be #1 on anyone's list. If one doesn't count NCAA players from USHL, then its hard to compare with 20&under leagues.

 

[UED]

Is North Americans underrating the MHL a big reason why they(including NHL's pros) suck so much at evaluating Russians?

The problem with the MHL and other European junior leagues compared to the CHL is that not only do they not have any imports but more importantly the stars are playing in pro leagues. This is why they're weaker than the CHL.

Not sure why people are acting like the QMJHL is weak either. It's the exact same thing as the OHL(OHL is better because it serves 50% more people than the other 2) and WHL. They dominated the last 2 memorial cups and have a far better list of alums than the WHL(which is just a coincidence, but shows that it's not somehow 2nd rate). Believe it or not, it's not because it has Québec in its name that it's inherently inferior. Calling it weaker than the Finnish junior league quite frankly is just not knowing what the QMJHL is. The Finnish league has one year of one good player(who is not even in his draft year yet) at a time...Pretty much the same for the MHL really but at least they serve a huge country, the Finnish league literally serves half the population as the QMJHL and doesn't have any stars or imports, other I guess than the 31 games of 16, 17 year old Slafkovsky(import) before he graduated to the pros.

 

[cleveland408]

I think with the USHL you have to consider that it's a feeder league to the NCAA.

 

[Hanji]

I'm inclined to say the league that, on average, has the older players will be the better one; at least for the leagues that are traditional NHL feeders (CHL, USHL, MHL, Superelit, etc).

Age can play a bigger factor than talent at junior level. Look at how easy it is for painfully average overagers to dominate the CHL.
Just one year difference on average can be giganitic. I mean most international U18 teams would be easily beaten by a U19. Same for a U19 to a U20.

 

[Atas2000]

The problem with the MHL and other European junior leagues compared to the CHL is that not only do they not have any imports but more importantly the stars are playing in pro leagues. This is why they're weaker than the CHL.

This is too simple.

Imports do not add that much to the CHL. For example recently the russian imports are not the top players out of Russia and less and less are making the national junior teams.

Stars usually don't play in pro leagues on the regular basis but shift between leagues during the season.

But the most important part is no matter how big the canadian pool of players is there are 60 teams in the CHL, 34 in the MHL, only 20 in Superelit in Sweden.

I think we can agree that if condensed to 20-30 teams the CHL would have a much higher level of competition. And that is why 34 MHL teams (also drawing from a much wider geography than the KHL) easily on par with the better part of the CHL.

Not sure why people are acting like the QMJHL is weak either. It's the exact same thing as the OHL(OHL is better because it serves 50% more people than the other 2) and WHL. They dominated the last 2 memorial cups and have a far better list of alums than the WHL(which is just a coincidence, but shows that it's not somehow 2nd rate). Believe it or not, it's not because it has Québec in its name that it's inherently inferior. Calling it weaker than the Finnish junior league quite frankly is just not knowing what the QMJHL is. The Finnish league has one year of one good player(who is not even in his draft year yet) at a time...Pretty much the same for the MHL really but at least they serve a huge country, the Finnish league literally serves half the population as the QMJHL and doesn't have any stars or imports, other I guess than the 31 games of 16, 17 year old Slafkovsky(import) before he graduated to the pros.

The Q is objectively weaker than the other two. Not by much, but still.

The comparison to the finnish league is misplaced as I never said it was better than any CHL league.

On the other hand your statements reveal a lot of misunderstanding of how those european leagues work.

MHL players are 16-20 year olds. It's not one year at a time. Most players spend as much time in the league as the CHL players. A lot play there in their draft year and beyond. As I wrote they can shift between leagues, but for example this upcoming WJC roster players on Team Russia who play in Russia will all have some MHL games this season on their resume including the 19 year olds from the 2021 draft. And those are the best selects. Also very few from the CHL will even have a chance to make the team.

 

[ViD]

MHL is definitely stronger than Q. Russian selects from MHL typically beat Q in the Subway Series

 

[Kshahdoo]

MHL is definitely stronger than Q. Russian selects from MHL typically beat Q in the Subway Series

Last series usually were even or in favor of Russian teams, and you can imaging playin in their rinks gave CHLers some advantage. But it's hard to say, what CHL league did better, one year it could be W, another year it could be O or Q.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

While the OHL has the largest pool of players/talent, the best CHL league changes from year to year. I would rank the leagues as:
1. CHL
2. USHL/NCAA
3. MHL
4. Superelit
5. SM-Sarjga

 

[Speyer]

1: WHL
2: OHL
3: MHL (Russia)
4: USHL
5: U20 SM-Sarja (Finland)
6: QMJHL
7: Superelit (Sweden)
8: DNL U20 (Germany)
9: U-20 Elit (Switzerland)
10: Czech U20
11: Iceysl (Austria)

Would be my bet. Could be that i overate some european leagues. Perhaps BCHL, NAHL and USDP should be on the list.

The Q is definitely better than the finnish U20 League. I would also rank the OHL as number one league over the WHL. The Swiss U20 league is pretty much a shitshow, but I would still rank it higher than the german one. Sure Germany has produced better prospects than Switzerland of late that have played in the DNL U20. But a few lone players don't say much about league strength overall.

 

[GrizzGreen]

8. NAHL
9. BCHL

Having played in both... no

NAHL is very watered down

 

[J bo Jeans]

Im not looking at the quantity of first round picks - i’m looking at the quality of picks.

Since 2010 - the USHL has produced players like Matthews, Keller, Zegras, Hughes (x2), Knight, Tkachuk (x2), Eichel, Werenski, Boeser, Larkin, Jones, Trouba, Miller and Hayes.

Now I know for a fact the WHL doesn't have that kind of track record, and thats not even mentioning the past two drafts where the USHL took home the bacon.

Is that really the USHL's credit or the national program?

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Is that really the USHL's credit or the national program?

They’re one and the same.

 

[J bo Jeans]

They’re one and the same.

Nah its the National programs credit first and far most.. They hand pick the best US born players and put them on a team together. Offer them superior training, coaching and practice. The players in the national program would have pumped out the same amount of draft picks if the team played in any other major junior league. The USHL is the only US league thats good enough and thats why they play there.

 

[TheCrease]

Is that really the USHL's credit or the national program?

The National team for sure deserves credit for developing players, but for the purpose of this discussion, everyone is including the NTDP within the USHL. Most of the NTDP players would be dispersed among the USHL teams if there was no National team

 

[Hanji]

While the OHL has the largest pool of players/talent, the best CHL league changes from year to year. I would rank the leagues as:
1. CHL
2. USHL/NCAA
3. MHL
4. Superelit
5. SM-Sarjga

The NCAA is a step above all these leagues. I wouldn't even consider it a junior league per se.

 

[SimGrindcore]

For me, the WHL is the clear cut best junior league. They produce a lot a NHL caliber defensemen. The league lean on the defense so it's harder for forward to produce. The OHL comes 2nd for the amount of NHL draft picks. The Q and USHL are really close in my book, USHL is clearly on the rise.

1. WHL
2. OHL
3.QMJHL
4. USHL
5. MHL
6. Czech U20
7. SuperElit
8. BCHL
9. U20 SM Sarja

 

[Remparts666]

1: WHL
2: OHL
3: MHL (Russia)
4: USHL
5: U20 SM-Sarja (Finland)
6: QMJHL
7: Superelit (Sweden)
8: DNL U20 (Germany)
9: U-20 Elit (Switzerland)
10: Czech U20
11: Iceysl (Austria)

Would be my bet. Could be that i overate some european leagues. Perhaps BCHL, NAHL and USDP should be on the list.

Last 10 memorial cups:
Q:5
OHL:4
WHL:1
Have a grat day!

 

[beast mode]

1- OHL 198 Alumni in NHL
2- WHL 135
3- USHL 151 even with NTDP
4- QMJHL 89

 

[beast mode]

Last 10 memorial cups:
Q:5
OHL:4
WHL:1
Have a grat day!

the Memorial cup belongs to the team who trades the most assets to get top players. Everybody gets traded in the Q. It’s sad for student-athletes. Every year players are cut from the OHL and end up playing in the Q. Some are even playing on the top line. Bottom 6 fwds and 5-6 dman are weaker plain simple.

 

[Remparts666]

the Memorial cup belongs to the team who trades the most assets to get top players. Everybody gets traded in the Q. It’s sad for student-athletes. Every year players are cut from the OHL and end up playing in the Q. Some are even playing on the top line. Bottom 6 fwds and 5-6 dman are weaker plain simple.

Contenders do make multiple trades in all 3 leagues. Looks like a sad excuse to me. For the record, I did not say the Q is stronger than the OHL. Im just saying evidence show that the Q belongs. Like it or not, memorial cup tournaments are pretty much the best indicator to support that

 

[NTDP]

Nah its the National programs credit first and far most.. They hand pick the best US born players and put them on a team together. Offer them superior training, coaching and practice. The players in the national program would have pumped out the same amount of draft picks if the team played in any other major junior league. The USHL is the only US league thats good enough and thats why they play there.

I agree with this. The American Top Prospects game the last couple years changed the format to the USHL All Stars (mostly draft eligible) vs the NTDP U-18's and the U-18's a few times beat them handedly. I will say though the NTDP (especially this year's 04 group) would do the same to many CHL club teams. They beat some of the best NCAA Div.1 colleges at times. The USHL is a great league, and has become one of the best junior leagues overall in the world. But how many of those top US kids would play for one of the USHL club teams if the NTDP went away next year? I'm betting a few would go the CHL route. However, the USHL is becoming a very attractive option for some high end Canadian talent - Adam Fantilli (Yes I know his brother is there in Chicago with him). But in the landscape of Jr hockey in North America a kid can't go wrong with CHL or USHL. The scouts have all 4 of those leagues covered and if you're good enough you're getting picked up.

 

[nbwingsfan]

1: WHL
2: OHL
3: MHL (Russia)
4: USHL
5: U20 SM-Sarja (Finland)
6: QMJHL
7: Superelit (Sweden)
8: DNL U20 (Germany)
9: U-20 Elit (Switzerland)
10: Czech U20
11: Iceysl (Austria)

Would be my bet. Could be that i overate some european leagues. Perhaps BCHL, NAHL and USDP should be on the list.

The Q is absolutely not below the Finnish or Swedish leagues. They’re essentially on par with the OHL/WHL if not just below