What is wrong with the Jackets offense?

[GoJackets1]

The opposition only has to match up against one line, since only one line can score. To me, it's as simple as that, and I'm sure it's been said already but I haven't read the thread.

 

[Crede777]

The opposition only has to match up against one line, since only one line can score. To me, it's as simple as that, and I'm sure it's been said already but I haven't read the thread.

It's not just that we have 1 scoring line but they are also our best line defensively.

Our top line should be spending most of its time thinking offense and letting others take the difficult defensive assignments.

So it's like, ok we are missing a bevy of top-6 players, our top line is going to get focused on for offense. That is expected. But our grinders aren't grinding and our plugs aren't plugging. The fact is that the guys who should theoretically be the most desperate players on the team aren't selling out for face off wins or to block shots or take the body. That in turn affects our possession and, ultimately, our offense.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

So it's like, ok we are missing a bevy of top-6 players, our top line is going to get focused on for offense. That is expected. But our grinders aren't grinding and our plugs aren't plugging. The fact is that the guys who should theoretically be the most desperate players on the team aren't selling out for face off wins or to block shots or take the body. That in turn affects our possession and, ultimately, our offense.

Exactly.

 

[GoJackets1]

It's not just that we have 1 scoring line but they are also our best line defensively.

Our top line should be spending most of its time thinking offense and letting others take the difficult defensive assignments.

So it's like, ok we are missing a bevy of top-6 players, our top line is going to get focused on for offense. That is expected. But our grinders aren't grinding and our plugs aren't plugging. The fact is that the guys who should theoretically be the most desperate players on the team aren't selling out for face off wins or to block shots or take the body. That in turn affects our possession and, ultimately, our offense.

Guys like Dmac. We really miss that guy. :

 

[WannabeFinn]

Guys like Dmac. We really miss that guy. :

We do? Huh.

 

[GoJackets1]

We do? Huh.

Hey, you. Lol

 

[TaketheCannoli]

GOOD G-DDAMN ****ING HELL. When the everloving nippletwisting **** are we going to FINALLY dump this outdated idea of arbitrary hierarchical caste "lines" and figure out that it's chemistry between individual players that matters?

Foligno's been near-PPG or above PPG playing with Johansen. This is a GOOD THING. DO NOT **** WITH A GOOD THING. QUIT TRYING TO REMOVE HIM FROM THERE G-DDAMNIT, YOU WILL ONLY MAKE US A WORSE TEAM. Just because he can do it doesn't mean you can suddenly throw in someone with More "Talent" (whatever the **** that's supposed to be in this context) and somehow get Better Results. People don't work that way, damnit!


EDIT: *deeeeep breath* Not that I'm opposed to occasional experimentation to see if someone can do better. But as the rant above clearly indicates, I'm just so damn tired of folks trying to break up working combos because "he's not a Nth liner" or similar arbitrary "you're marrying above your caste" bull.

EDIT 2: *deeper breath*
I should be clear. The whole "he's normally a Nth liner" thing is not, inherently, what I find objectionable. That actually does serve as a useful mnemonic for vague player evaluation in generic, all-else-is-equal situations, so it's a useful tool in that sense. What I find maddening is when it gets used to justify player shuffles when something non-generic and helpful and constructive is going on. When we're talking about having Gibbons on the "second line", then saying "he's normally a fourth-liner" is supposed to be a way of understanding why he's not putting up points. When we've got Foligno scoring a point per game on our "first line", pointing out that "he's normally a second-liner" is a way of saying "dude, he's got awesome chemistry with Johansen." It's not a problem when that happens, and treating it like a problem that needs solving is silly.
That's what I was trying to convey.

* * *​

Today we will learn about something called "matchups". It involves what players you're playing against on the other team, and what capabilities and accomplishments can be expected of you as a result.

While you are taking a deep breath , consider something else. 1st line players don't necessarily play on the "First line". First liners or top pairing defenders are often spread into several groupings. This occurs on many good teams. Foligno can easily be paired with Johansen yet not be a 1st line wing. JmfJ is a top pairing defenseman . So is Tyutin. Both arguably #2s that aren't typically on he same pairing.

Who would argue that Malkin is a 1C? Carter? On the other hand, do you consider Bozak a #1? If so, did you consider Manny one back when he was centering Nash? Kane and Toews don't usually play on the same line. Is one of them a second or even third liner? How about Hossa?

Dispersing players throughout the lineup creates matchup problems.

Perhaps instead of worrying about where they are in the lineup, you might want to spend more time on their standing as a player. Are they top 30 in the NHL at their position? On that basis, while Foligno is well suited to play with Johansen, I consider him a 2nd liner.

 

[thebus2288*]

So if I'm reading things right Mackenzie and Comeau have a bigger impact on the offense than Foligno and Dubinsky?

If Mackenzie was on our team this year and we had all the same injuries he probably would have played the 2nd or 3rd most center minutes by now. His offensive numbers would be better than his career average but I promise you his other numbers(+/-, FO%, anything/60 min)would be worse.

And we wouldn't be a much better team, if at all.

 

[major major]

The opposition only has to match up against one line, since only one line can score. To me, it's as simple as that, and I'm sure it's been said already but I haven't read the thread.

If that was true then we'd see flatter scoring. The top line has been able to score consistently whatever the opposition tries. The rest of our guys is 100% of the issue.

 

[Robert]

So if I'm reading things right Mackenzie and Comeau have a bigger impact on the offense than Foligno and Dubinsky?

If Mackenzie was on our team this year and we had all the same injuries he probably would have played the 2nd or 3rd most center minutes by now. His offensive numbers would be better than his career average but I promise you his other numbers(+/-, FO%, anything/60 min)would be worse.

And we wouldn't be a much better team, if at all.

We are not Nostradomus but this I can say, the bottom six line players last year are different than the bottom six line players this year..... and those bottom six last year scored timely goals, not so much this year..

 

[thebus2288*]

The problem is that our bottom 6 is different now then it was at the beginning of the year. And hopefully different than what it will be in February. A lot of people are underestimating how much an impact missing 1+ full lines will have. Not to mention a full time pairing on defense. ALL the players have to play stronger competition or "tougher" minutes with the amount of players we're missing. And it hasn't just been a few games, its weeks. That said, I have not been happy with the decisions on the 3rd and 4th lines. I don't know if I should blame Richards or JK/JD for this. I just don't think in this situation that Mackenzie would make MUCH of a difference. Comeau is just a slightly better Cracknell, who frankly is quite worthless. Gibbons and Rychel should have been up sooner and Wennberg down the whole year. Cracknell and Tropp should be waived and sent down. They should bring Dano and Tyrell back up. Maybe give Tynan a few games.

 

[GoJackets1]

If that was true then we'd see flatter scoring. The top line has been able to score consistently whatever the opposition tries. The rest of our guys is 100% of the issue.

I guess I didn't really word my post that well, but that's kind of what I mean. The top line is relied on for everything[\I], thus the opposition keys in on them, which brings their production down slightly. So with their lesser production, and the other 3 lines complete lack of production, we're screwed. The bottom 3 lines, as they are, are just not good enough. And especially the bottom 6. Chaput and Cracknell as our bottom 6 centers isnt going to cut it.

The opposition doesn't have to worry about any line but the top line, since they're the only line that can score, is my point.

 

[EspenK]

Intrigued by a post on the mains regarding how many times your team won or lost by a blowout I decided to look at the Jackets margin of victory and defeat.

The amazing thing to me is that the Jackets have won by more than one goal 3 times all season and 2 of them were the first 2 games and the other was a 2 goal win.

Even considering all the injuries this is just amazing to me.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Intrigued by a post on the mains regarding how many times your team won or lost by a blowout I decided to look at the Jackets margin of victory and defeat.

The amazing thing to me is that the Jackets have won by more than one goal 3 times all season and 2 of them were the first 2 games and the other was a 2 goal win.

Even considering all the injuries this is just amazing to me.

Even through the recent point streak, Bob has carried this team. At least 3 times during that streak the team was outshot by close to 20 shots or more. I'm not really surprised by those facts due to the amount of games they have won by the skin of their teeth.

 

[BluejacketNut]

When you cant pass, you have a hard time generating chances. This team as a whole is terrible at passing, leaving them to have to dump and chase. Its been the trait of this franchise, always outshot, dump and chase hockey. Its not overly surprising that its only yielded 2 playoff wins in 14 years