Speculation: What (if anything) does Colorado do about their goaltending?

[HockeyVirus]

the avs haven’t played a single game with the full roster yet. Those numbers also mean literally nothing in the playoffs.

And a historically injury prone team is likely to be fully healthy for a long length of time? or is this it?

 

[Avaholic29]

And a historically injury prone team is likely to be fully healthy for a long length of time? or is this it?

Injuries happen, kucherov has missed an insane amount of time, stamkos a large injury history too..teams find a way when the playoffs come around.

 

[nightonthesun]

Kuemper hasn’t even settled in yet, Grubauer was terrible with Colorado until late in his first year.

Yeah no one seems to remember this. Grubauer had some absolutely putrid stretches of play for the Avs and not just in year one. DK is looking less and less shaky with more starts and deserves every chance to get comfortable; the team is still winning games.

It's Francouz who concerns me, though I'm glad it's at least confirmed that he exists and is not a creature of myth

 

[Scintillating10]

Price 75% retained have much interest to you(3 teams)? Or Price 50% retained and we take bad contract back?

 

[Goldenhands]

Didnt read the thread so I dont know if it has been mentionned, but the Bruins had 3 mid first round picks in 2015, 13-14- 15OV and drafted Sboril, Debrusk and Senyshyn. Next 3 picks were Barzal, Connor and Thomas Chabot, ouch!

 

[McJedi]

Price 75% retained have much interest to you(3 teams)? Or Price 50% retained and we take bad contract back?

Avs don’t have any bad contracts to horse trade with. EJ is overpaid at $6mm AAV this year and next but he’s a middle pair and top PK player so we can’t trade him. He’s probably giving the Avs $4.5mm AAV value.

JTC is also a top pK player and bottom six fixture with just 1.5 years left on his $3.5mm Aav. He’s probably giving the Avs $3mm Aav value.

so neither of these guys are a cap dump in the sense Price is. Also, Both EJ and JTC are much better regular season players than Price. that’s mainly because Price doesn’t play well until the playoffs. That’s a really Big problem for any team acquiring him since the regular season is still important. If price gave the same consistent effort in December or March as he does in may, he’d have far more value.

Any team can find a much cheaper option to allow goals on the 10% of shots Price consistently let’s get past him from October thru April. The vast majority of NHL goalies can save 90% of the shots they face.

 

[Big Muddy]

He has the 20th best SV% over the last 3 seasons, which, in some part, is due to the fact that the Canucks have sucked for much of that time. Exactly how much better would his numbers be on a better/less infected team? Well, that's where things get really fuzzy, and hard to nail down. But, I give him the benefit of the doubt and put him in the 10-15 range, with a bunch of other legit NHL starters who haven't quite proven themselves yet.

I could see a goalie on a bad team jumping up 10 - 12 spots (maybe more) quite easily if he played on a better team. That seems very feasible in my mind. He's a young tender, but does seem quite good from what I've seen from him.

For what its worth, in the Avs games I've seen, Kuemper seems to be playing well and generally doing a good job. The Avs currently are seeded as a Wild card team, but they have games in hand. So, people were generally expecting better results, but they aren't far off, and there's still plenty of games remaining in the season.

 

[Alienblood]

I could see a goalie on a bad team jumping up 10 - 12 spots (maybe more) quite easily if he played on a better team. That seems very feasible in my mind. He's a young tender, but does seem quite good from what I've seen from him.

For what its worth, in the Avs games I've seen, Kuemper seems to be playing well and generally doing a good job. The Avs currently are seeded as a Wild card team, but they have games in hand. So, people were generally expecting better results, but they aren't far off, and there's still plenty of games remaining in the season.

This and the Avs have the best point % in the west and have yet to ice a full roster.

 

[Big Muddy]

This and the Avs have the best point % in the west and have yet to ice a full roster.

I do like watching the Avs game. They are an exciting team and fun to watch - explosive with a lot of speed & talent on offense.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Avs don’t have any bad contracts to horse trade with. EJ is overpaid at $6mm AAV this year and next but he’s a middle pair and top PK player so we can’t trade him. He’s probably giving the Avs $4.5mm AAV value.

JTC is also a top pK player and bottom six fixture with just 1.5 years left on his $3.5mm Aav. He’s probably giving the Avs $3mm Aav value.

so neither of these guys are a cap dump in the sense Price is. Also, Both EJ and JTC are much better regular season players than Price. that’s mainly because Price doesn’t play well until the playoffs. That’s a really Big problem for any team acquiring him since the regular season is still important. If price gave the same consistent effort in December or March as he does in may, he’d have far more value.

Any team can find a much cheaper option to allow goals on the 10% of shots Price consistently let’s get past him from October thru April. The vast majority of NHL goalies can save 90% of the shots they face.

The only reason you trade for Price is for his ability to carry a team in the playoffs. The vast majority of NHL goalies can't do that, when it counts most. Including every Avs goalie since Roy!

That said, Price's cap hit makes him untradeable. Habs aren't eating 5M/season to trade him. That makes zero sense for a team that is not cap-constrained and is rebuilding.

Price is ideal for a rebuild. If what you say is true about him being an average regular season goaltender, then that's perfect for the Habs rebuild. Don't have to worry about him costing us a better draft pick.

 

[DFF]

Didnt read the thread so I dont know if it has been mentionned, but the Bruins had 3 mid first round picks in 2015, 13-14- 15OV and drafted Sboril, Debrusk and Senyshyn. Next 3 picks were Barzal, Connor and Thomas Chabot, ouch!

Yup that definitely impacted the Avalanche’s goaltending

 

[McJedi]

The only reason you trade for Price is for his ability to carry a team in the playoffs. The vast majority of NHL goalies can't do that, when it counts most. Including every Avs goalie since Roy!

That said, Price's cap hit makes him untradeable. Habs aren't eating 5M/season to trade him. That makes zero sense for a team that is not cap-constrained and is rebuilding.

Price is ideal for a rebuild. If what you say is true about him being an average regular season goaltender, then that's perfect for the Habs rebuild. Don't have to worry about him costing us a better draft pick.

I definitely agree that Price isn’t tradable without 50% retention. I also think he’s the right fit for the Habs rebuild since I don’t think Habs would retain that much either. He’s going to be the Habs goalie for several more seasons of his current contract.

realistically, the only rebuilding trade the Habs make this season is Chairot with retention for a high pick. Next season, Habs can probably unload Drouin with retention for a decent pick.

Habs players that are not realistically moveable this season are: Petry, Gallagher, Hoffman and probably Toffoli. Price is unmovable for several more seasons.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I definitely agree that Price isn’t tradable without 50% retention. I also think he’s the right fit for the Habs rebuild since I don’t think Habs would retain that much either. He’s going to be the Habs goalie for several more seasons of his current contract.

realistically, the only rebuilding trade the Habs make this season is Chairot with retention for a high pick. Next season, Habs can probably unload Drouin with retention for a decent pick.

Habs players that are not realistically moveable this season are: Petry, Gallagher, Hoffman and probably Toffoli. Price is unmovable for several more seasons.

Agreed - except i don't see the Habs trading Drouin. They will see that contract out.

Chiarot is a perfect piece for a playoff team. His game is ideal for playoff hockey when he is at his best. He is also a UFA at the end of the season and unlikely to re-sign with a team that is rebuilding.

I can see Lehkonen traded at the deadline. He's another player that plays well post-season and is excellent in a 3rd line role.

 

[McJedi]

Agreed - except i don't see the Habs trading Drouin. They will see that contract out.

Chiarot is a perfect piece for a playoff team. His game is ideal for playoff hockey when he is at his best. He is also a UFA at the end of the season and unlikely to re-sign with a team that is rebuilding.

I can see Lehkonen traded at the deadline. He's another player that plays well post-season and is excellent in a 3rd line role.

I added Lehkonen myself as I was vexed he wasn’t on the trade asset list. He’ll fetch a 4th or maybe a 3rd from someone at the deadline.

it won’t kickstart the Habs rebuild as much as Habs fans hope, but the only two Habs I see getting moved this season are Chairot and Lehkonen.

Return will be a 1st and a 4th. Habs will retain 50% on Chairot.

 

[Scintillating10]

Avs don’t have any bad contracts to horse trade with. EJ is overpaid at $6mm AAV this year and next but he’s a middle pair and top PK player so we can’t trade him. He’s probably giving the Avs $4.5mm AAV value.

JTC is also a top pK player and bottom six fixture with just 1.5 years left on his $3.5mm Aav. He’s probably giving the Avs $3mm Aav value.

so neither of these guys are a cap dump in the sense Price is. Also, Both EJ and JTC are much better regular season players than Price. that’s mainly because Price doesn’t play well until the playoffs. That’s a really Big problem for any team acquiring him since the regular season is still important. If price gave the same consistent effort in December or March as he does in may, he’d have far more value.

Any team can find a much cheaper option to allow goals on the 10% of shots Price consistently let’s get past him from October thru April. The vast majority of NHL goalies can save 90% of the shots they face.

Price is a great money goalie. He just beat a team singlehandly that your team could not. Can look up all the stats u want, Price under pressure thrives. From WJC, to Olympic teams, to taking a bad team to Finals. Cheaping out on him is going to cost you 3 or 4 cups. Possibly, according to who ends up with Price

 

[tucker3434]

Price is a great money goalie. He just beat a team singlehandly that your team could not. Can look up all the stats u want, Price under pressure thrives. From WJC, to Olympic teams, to taking a bad team to Finals. Cheaping out on him is going to cost you 3 or 4 cups. Possibly, according to who ends up with Price

The guy is already 34. Even if we assume that his recent playoff success is legit and not a small sample, random hot streak, how much longer does he have it in him? If 20 games is all he has in the tank now, what should we expect 2 years from now?

He's a guy I'd take a flier on at 50% if basically no value went the other way. The only thing I'd be willing to put at risk is the cap space. That doesn't make any sense for the Habs, and I get that.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The guy is already 34. Even if we assume that his recent playoff success is legit and not a small sample, random hot streak, how much longer does he have it in him? If 20 games is all he has in the tank now, what should we expect 2 years from now?

He's a guy I'd take a flier on at 50% if basically no value went the other way. The only thing I'd be willing to put at risk is the cap space. That doesn't make any sense for the Habs, and I get that.

I'm more open to the idea than most Avs fans. Still though, you make all valid points. And I wouldn't give up anything the Montreal fans would want. I think Price 50% retained is worth something involving Compher, Francouz, and Jost. This frees up 5 million of cap space for Montreal in a couple of years. Thats all I'd trade unless more pieces are involved from Montreal.

 

[McJedi]

Price is a great money goalie. He just beat a team singlehandly that your team could not. Can look up all the stats u want, Price under pressure thrives. From WJC, to Olympic teams, to taking a bad team to Finals. Cheaping out on him is going to cost you 3 or 4 cups. Possibly, according to who ends up with Price

Price is never going to win a Stanley cup. He’s never won one. He never will. He’ll play out his career in a Habs sweater where he’ll continue to be vastly overpaid to provide the typical subpar goal tending he gives the Habs most nights…when he’s actually available to play.

His NHL career probably ends abruptly and unceremoniously with him going on the Habs LTIR list after one bad outing a few seasons from today. This is more likely than a Price buyout.

the very least likely outcome is the Habs trade Price. His contract has too much negative value. The amount of retention and/or assets the Habs would need to attach to move him wouldn’t make it practical for the Habs to pull the trigger. He’s your cap problem until that contract runs its course. When he goes on LTIR for a few years, at least Habs ownership can allocate his cap dollars elsewhere. But he’s basically Seabrook.

Avs will win at least one cup in the next five years and their goalie won’t be named Price.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I could see a goalie on a bad team jumping up 10 - 12 spots (maybe more) quite easily if he played on a better team. That seems very feasible in my mind. He's a young tender, but does seem quite good from what I've seen from him.

For what its worth, in the Avs games I've seen, Kuemper seems to be playing well and generally doing a good job. The Avs currently are seeded as a Wild card team, but they have games in hand. So, people were generally expecting better results, but they aren't far off, and there's still plenty of games remaining in the season.

Yes, that's possible, but wouldn't a lot of guys also be able to put up similar better numbers on that better team? If we could realistically put a bunch of different goalies on a better team and any one of them could plausibly put up top 5-10 numbers, how does that differentiate one from the rest? And, at that point, wouldn't the goalie technically become a product of the better team, which would take some of the luster off of their performance? At the very least, it makes it difficult for me to put much stock in "if he played on a better team" argument for goalies.

With that said, I agree that there's no good reason for the Avs to make a change right now. They are currently tied for the best point% in the West, lead the NHL in scoring, and have a top 5 goal differential and we still haven't seen a game with everyone healthy. I'm not sure how much better the results could realistically be, all things considered.

 

[Big Muddy]

Yes, that's possible, but wouldn't a lot of guys also be able to put up similar better numbers on that better team? If we could realistically put a bunch of different goalies on a better team and any one of them could plausibly put up top 5-10 numbers, how does that differentiate one from the rest? And, at that point, wouldn't the goalie technically become a product of the better team, which would take some of the luster off of their performance? At the very least, it makes it difficult for me to put much stock in "if he played on a better team" argument for goalies.

With that said, I agree that there's no good reason for the Avs to make a change right now. They are currently tied for the best point% in the West, lead the NHL in scoring, and have a top 5 goal differential and we still haven't seen a game with everyone healthy. I'm not sure how much better the results could realistically be, all things considered.

If the goalie is bad, and has bad fundamentals, he'll still let in soft goals.

Given that what I said is getting in the way of the main point, it would better to state that Varlamov has shown over the period of several years that he is a capable NHL goalie. His body of work over the last few years indicates this versus a small stretch of recent games. Other points it seems will result in getting stuck on a tangent.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

If the goalie is bad, and has bad fundamentals, he'll still let in soft goals.

Given that what I said is getting in the way of the main point, it would better to state that Varlamov has shown over the period of several years that he is a capable NHL goalie. His body of work over the last few years indicates this versus a small stretch of recent games. Other points it seems will result in getting stuck on a tangent.

I completely agree that Varly is a very capable NHL goalie.

My point was more than there are a lot of very capable NHL goalies, with very little difference between them. In any given season, there's probably 20 guys with a legitimate chance at being a "top 5" goalie that season, depending on how they play, the team dynamics, and a bunch of other variables. There's really no bad choice among them from a pure skill based viewpoint, because they are all very capable. I think Kuemper is one of those guy, as are Varly and Demko and a bunch of other guys. Because of this, I tend to get annoyed when people proclaim their favorite/hometown goalie as the single best available option, like there aren't 20 other very capable guys who could easily perform just as well.

 

[josra33]

Price is a great money goalie. He just beat a team singlehandly that your team could not. Can look up all the stats u want, Price under pressure thrives. From WJC, to Olympic teams, to taking a bad team to Finals. Cheaping out on him is going to cost you 3 or 4 cups. Possibly, according to who ends up with Price

Single-handedly? f*** all the defensive plays that let him relax and actually play his game. He played great… but he doesn’t do that well behind an Avs run and gun, jump into the play style.

 

[Big Muddy]

I completely agree that Varly is a very capable NHL goalie.

My point was more than there are a lot of very capable NHL goalies, with very little difference between them. In any given season, there's probably 20 guys with a legitimate chance at being a "top 5" goalie that season, depending on how they play, the team dynamics, and a bunch of other variables. There's really no bad choice among them from a pure skill based viewpoint, because they are all very capable. I think Kuemper is one of those guy, as are Varly and Demko and a bunch of other guys. Because of this, I tend to get annoyed when people proclaim their favorite/hometown goalie as the single best available option, like there aren't 20 other very capable guys who could easily perform just as well.

OK, I see the point you are making now. I agree, there's quite a few good goalies, and I would include Kuemper in that group.

 

[Jerkbait]

The only reason you trade for Price is for his ability to carry a team in the playoffs. The vast majority of NHL goalies can't do that, when it counts most. Including every Avs goalie since Roy!

That said, Price's cap hit makes him untradeable. Habs aren't eating 5M/season to trade him. That makes zero sense for a team that is not cap-constrained and is rebuilding.

Price is ideal for a rebuild. If what you say is true about him being an average regular season goaltender, then that's perfect for the Habs rebuild. Don't have to worry about him costing us a better draft pick.

What makes you think price wants to finish his career with a non playoff team in Montreal?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

What makes you think price wants to finish his career with a non playoff team in Montreal?

What makes you think i think that? lol