Speculation: What (if anything) does Colorado do about their goaltending?

[tucker3434]

Again, that's a great way to be behind the times. If you aren't interested in knowing more than what ESPN tells you about McDavid and Mackinnon being good players, that's fine and there is nothing wrong with being a casual fan.

But what hfboards offers, in theory, is boots on the ground insight on 31 other teams so that even on a bad team you can get first hand accounts of who is up and coming, which players are pulling the majority of the weight, etc.

I'm not here telling you that Myers is a number 1 D and J.T. Miller is better than Leon Draisaitl, but myself and a number of Canucks fans are telling you that if Demko isn't top 5 in the league he's closer to 5th than 10th.

If you prefer to have this fed to you in two years, that's fine.

He's been on a terrible team most of the last year and a half and has been hung out to dry.

People in the national media in Canada are saying, "The Canucks should build around their franchise netminder", because they are starting to notice what we have been seeing for awhile.

But if you would rather be fairly ignorant about the rest of the league, that's all good man. I'll leave you to it.

I’ve been having this argument on here for years. Everyone is always thinking their guy is the exception and their 10 point bump in shot/save percentage is totally sustainable, indefinitely. Unsurprisingly, they’re wrong pretty much every time. Objective data consistently beats subjective scouting by a fan.

For being “fairly ignorant” I sure do like my batting average.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

He's 'probably in the top 10 or 15'. So you're not even sure if he's in the top half of league starters?

Then you're barely worth talking to about him. I will back off saying he is definitively top 5 yet, but he's closer to 5 then he is to 10 if he isn't.

And how about you explain what 'tangible' means in this case? Is it advanced stats that really struggle to measure good players on bad teams?

Also how much have you seen him play, and be honest.

He has the 20th best SV% over the last 3 seasons, which, in some part, is due to the fact that the Canucks have sucked for much of that time. Exactly how much better would his numbers be on a better/less infected team? Well, that's where things get really fuzzy, and hard to nail down. But, I give him the benefit of the doubt and put him in the 10-15 range, with a bunch of other legit NHL starters who haven't quite proven themselves yet. He's easily in the top half, I just don't see an argument for him being top 5, or even top 10 quite yet. Maybe he has the talent to eventually prove that he deserves to be ranked higher, but right now, he hasn't proven enough to be there, no matter how much you want to insist otherwise.

And "tangible" means that it doesn't just exist in your head, so you can actually show it to the rest of us. In practical application, your opinion of what you think you saw isn't tangible, and the measurable results of what he's actually done in the NHL are tangible.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

He has the 20th best SV% over the last 3 seasons, which, in some part, is due to the fact that the Canucks have sucked for much of that time. Exactly how much better would his numbers be on a better/less infected team? Well, that's where things get really fuzzy, and hard to nail down. But, I give him the benefit of the doubt and put him in the 10-15 range, with a bunch of other legit NHL starters who haven't quite proven themselves yet. He's easily in the top half, I just don't see an argument for him being top 5, or even top 10 quite yet. Maybe he has the talent to eventually prove that he deserves to be ranked higher, but right now, he hasn't proven enough to be there, no matter how much you want to insist otherwise.

And "tangible" means that it doesn't just exist in your head, so you can actually show it to the rest of us. In practical application, your opinion of what you think you saw isn't tangible, and the measurable results of what he's actually done in the NHL are tangible.

So, cutting through your smugness about what's "in my head", what im reading is that you don't think there is a conversation to be had about hockey that isn't quantified by box car stats or advanced stats.

It ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy as it becomes clear that, with you, there isn't.

So.perhaps we should just leave it there, shall we?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So, cutting through your smugness about what's "in my head", what im reading is that you don't think there is a conversation to be had about hockey that isn't quantified by box car stats or advanced stats.

It ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy as it becomes clear that, with you, there isn't.

So.perhaps we should just leave it there, shall we?

There are a lot of conversations about hockey that don't rely on stats at all. For example, we could discuss how goalies do not historically have nearly as much value as a 20 year old potential elite franchise 1D like Byram without even looking at their stats. Or why the Avs are unlikely to be in the starting goalie market after spending a 1st + Timmins on Keumper in the offseason. Or even why Vancouver and their players is/are probably better than their numbers would otherwise suggest.

But, when you claim that their favorite/hometown goalie is a "top 5ish goaltender in the league. Period.", I ask for something that resembles evidence. I'm sure you believe he's a top 5 guy, or at least has top 5 talent, but people believe a lot of things that aren't necessarily based in reality, so your beliefs don't mean much to me. Convincing arguments based on observable things are the only thing that makes me believe something is true, and you've offered nothing even remotely convincing.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

This thread is much ado about nothing, Kuemper is 13-5 and other than a bad start against Ottawa has a 913 save percentage

 

[shadow1]

This thread is much ado about nothing, Kuemper is 13-5 and other than a bad start against Ottawa has a 913 save percentage

I honestly think the conversation needs to revolve more around Francouz than Kuemper.

Jonas Johansson (who struggled this year, mind you) was lost on waivers, and Francouz finally played his first NHL game since the 2020 bubble this week. If Francouz (on an expiring deal) can't stay healthy or can't regain his form, Colorado absolutely needs a good 1B goalie.

I see a bunch of discussion around Thatcher Demko for some reason. The Vancouver goalie who would be a good fit behind Kuemper - assuming Francouz isn't - would be the Canucks other goalie, Jaro Halak.

Obviously I'm sure Sakic would prefer not to try to win the cup with Halak in net if Kuemper went down in the playoffs, but he's a heck of a lot better than Andrew Hammond and Michael Hutchinson.

 

[flyfysher]

I honestly think the conversation needs to revolve more around Francouz than Kuemper.

Jonas Johansson (who struggled this year, mind you) was lost on waivers, and Francouz finally played his first NHL game since the 2020 bubble this week. If Francouz (on an expiring deal) can't stay healthy or can't regain his form, Colorado absolutely needs a good 1B goalie.

I see a bunch of discussion around Thatcher Demko for some reason. The Vancouver goalie who would be a good fit behind Kuemper - assuming Francouz isn't - would be the Canucks other goalie, Jaro Halak.

Obviously I'm sure Sakic would prefer not to try to win the cup with Halak in net if Kuemper went down in the playoffs, but he's a heck of a lot better than Andrew Hammond and Michael Hutchinson.

I would like to see Kuemper and Francouz play for a month with everyone healthy before deciding what the team’s most pressing needs are before the TDL.

 

[Stephen]

While Grubauer had his issues in the playoffs with Colorado, it seems like he was such a more natural fit with the Avs than Kuemper has been so far. At the cost of a 1st and Timmins, the Avs would have been better off going for an Andersen or something like that. That said, I wonder if a Grubauer reunion could happen?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

While Grubauer had his issues in the playoffs with Colorado, it seems like he was such a more natural fit with the Avs than Kuemper has been so far. At the cost of a 1st and Timmins, the Avs would have been better off going for an Andersen or something like that. That said, I wonder if a Grubauer reunion could happen?

The reason the Avs ended up slightly overpaying for Kuemper is because Grubauer dragged his feet making a decision and didn't sign with Seattle until July 28, well after most of the other potential starters were already taken. I'm not really blaming Grubauer for choosing the money, but how it all worked out doesn't make me all that eager to bring him back. There's too many other skilled goalies out there to go back to a guy who obviously doesn't want to be here.

 

[tucker3434]

Andersen looks great now, but at the time he was coming off of .895 and .909 seasons. He really didn't look like a plan A for a cup contender.

 

[Avaholic29]

Francouz looked solid In his debut. Injury this year wasn’t related to last years, he will be fine. Avs will be fine, deadline should be reserved for shoring up the forwards

 

[shadow1]

While Grubauer had his issues in the playoffs with Colorado, it seems like he was such a more natural fit with the Avs than Kuemper has been so far. At the cost of a 1st and Timmins, the Avs would have been better off going for an Andersen or something like that. That said, I wonder if a Grubauer reunion could happen?

I think that ship has sailed. Supposedly, Grubauer was the Avalanche's Plan A in net, but they weren't willing to go longer than 5 years.

Seattle came out of no where with a 6 year deal (and supposedly slightly more AAV), and that was that. Andersen, Plan B according to LeBrun, was already off the market when that happened because Colorado was negotiating with Grubauer as free agency was happening, due to spending the previous day(s) negotiating with and narrowly signing Gabe Landeskog before the free agency window opened.

It was definitely a good example of bad time management and asset management. Just my $0.02.

 

[PAZ]

While Grubauer had his issues in the playoffs with Colorado, it seems like he was such a more natural fit with the Avs than Kuemper has been so far. At the cost of a 1st and Timmins, the Avs would have been better off going for an Andersen or something like that. That said, I wonder if a Grubauer reunion could happen?

That ship has sailed unless Seattle literally wants to retain and receive nothing of value back.

 

[Alienblood]

From what i have been reading is they will do nothing because goaltending isn't an issue.

exactly this

 

[franste Perreault]

Big problem for the Avalanche are injuries. They don't play a game this year with the full lineup.
Colorado played 27 games and only 4 players play all games O'connor, E.Johnson T. jost and D. Helm.
Difficult to blame goalies when no one can stay healthy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Andersen looks great now, but at the time he was coming off of .895 and .909 seasons. He really didn't look like a plan A for a cup contender.

That's the problem with looking at stats. A lot of people knew Anderson would re-surface as a top 10 goalie. Guys like this don't become available for free that often. From 17/18 to 20/21, Anderson had the 3rd most shots against behind Hellebuyck and Vasilevskiy and I suspect he is up there with facing high danger shots too.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think trade for Fleury, if I'm being honest. Maybe add Anderson from Buffalo as their taxi squad goaltender healthy or not.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

That's the problem with looking at stats. A lot of people knew Anderson would re-surface as a top 10 goalie. Guys like this don't become available for free that often. From 17/18 to 20/21, Anderson had the 3rd most shots against behind Hellebuyck and Vasilevskiy and I suspect he is up there with facing high danger shots too.

I'd say a lot of people believed he should rebound, but no one could possibly know it because it hadn't happened yet. Carolina decided they could accept the risk for 2 years at $4.5m, and it's worked out very well for them so far. It's not like they gave him top 10 money and term, so they were obviously looking at the numbers too and made an informed decision based on all available information.

 

[Muffin]

While Grubauer had his issues in the playoffs with Colorado, it seems like he was such a more natural fit with the Avs than Kuemper has been so far. At the cost of a 1st and Timmins, the Avs would have been better off going for an Andersen or something like that. That said, I wonder if a Grubauer reunion could happen?

Kuemper hasn’t even settled in yet, Grubauer was terrible with Colorado until late in his first year.

 

[tucker3434]

That's the problem with looking at stats. A lot of people knew Anderson would re-surface as a top 10 goalie. Guys like this don't become available for free that often. From 17/18 to 20/21, Anderson had the 3rd most shots against behind Hellebuyck and Vasilevskiy and I suspect he is up there with facing high danger shots too.

His underlying metrics weren't great either. Out of the 83 goalies that played 1000 minutes between 2018 and 2021, he was 48th in HD shots against/60. He performed under his expected save rate, sometimes significantly. Goalies are headcases. Other than the Hellebuycks and Vasilevskiys, a lot of them only have a short run at playing great (*cough* John Gibson *cough*). Some rebound. Many don't. I'm still not sure I buy Andersen long term. We'll see where it goes.

 

[Stephen]

Kuemper hasn’t even settled in yet, Grubauer was terrible with Colorado until late in his first year.

Yeah that’s a valid point but I guess the trouble with a UFA rental is there isn’t a ton of runway one way or another.

 

[HockeyVirus]

This thread is much ado about nothing, Kuemper is 13-5 and other than a bad start against Ottawa has a 913 save percentage

For a team like the Avs that are talked about having a top 5 defense, that is piss poor. That goaltending statline won't win a playoff series. Wouldn't be the first contender to fall short because of lack of goaltending but everything else.

 

[tucker3434]

For a team like the Avs that are talked about having a top 5 defense, that is piss poor. That goaltending statline won't win a playoff series. Wouldn't be the first contender to fall short because of lack of goaltending but everything else.

It's been 19 games. Opposing goalies currently have a .955 save percentage against MacKinnon. There's likely to be some correction for both guys.

 

[Avaholic29]

For a team like the Avs that are talked about having a top 5 defense, that is piss poor. That goaltending statline won't win a playoff series. Wouldn't be the first contender to fall short because of lack of goaltending but everything else.

the avs haven’t played a single game with the full roster yet. Those numbers also mean literally nothing in the playoffs.

 

[ilyazhito]

What about James Reimer? He has not had a season with a sub-.900 save percentage so far in his career, he has not had a losing season since 2015-16, and he's sporting a sub-2.00 GAA. Is he due for regression to the mean? Probably. However, he has a. 914 career save percentage, so he is at least consistently above average. He has helped the Sharks get to the Stanley Cup finals in his last stint as a backup, and he seems to be doing the job for them now as a starter.