What happened to Brodeur's legacy?

[mlzy]

Turco was a better puck handler.

Weird that they didn’t make rule changes to make sure Turco couldn’t handle the puck?

 

[mlzy]

Roy completely outplayed Marty in the 2001 finals. It wasn't even close, puck handling gaff notwithstanding.

The series went 7, completely outplayed is an exaggeration! I guess by your theory the Devils completely outplayed the Avalanche!

 

[Frobbo]

The series went 7, completely outplayed is an exaggeration! I guess by your theory the Devils completely outplayed the Avalanche!

Uh, look at the save %. Roy was outstanding. Colorado was without Forsberg. NOBODY was saying MB was outstanding, just solid etc. Just review the game 6 tape, especially 1st period.

 

[Brodeur]

Uh, look at the save %. Roy was outstanding. Colorado was without Forsberg. NOBODY was saying MB was outstanding, just solid etc. Just review the game 6 tape, especially 1st period.

Marty had a rough series against Colorado and also wasn't great against Toronto that playoff (.878). Definitely one of those years where we wish we had a better backup to take some regular season games.

 

[Doctor No]

Weird that they didn’t make rule changes to make sure Turco couldn’t handle the puck?

You're certainly aware that just because the media calls it the "Brodeur rule", that doesn't mean that the league was specifically targeting Brodeur.

The rule is officially "Rule 1.8" and "Rule 27.8", and just so happened to be implemented during Turco's NHL prime.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Nothing.

He's a top five goalie of all time.

Or pretty darn close to it.

Marty had a rough series against Colorado and also wasn't great against Toronto that playoff (.878). Definitely one of those years where we wish we had a better backup to take some regular season games.

NJ dominated the first period of game 6.

Then...came Gomez's no goal & Foote's goal from outside blue line. NJ never recovered.

 

[Doctor No]

Marty had a rough series against Colorado and also wasn't great against Toronto that playoff (.878). Definitely one of those years where we wish we had a better backup to take some regular season games.

It is somewhat impressive just how quickly they stopped using Terreri after a spotty first month:

2000-2001 New Jersey Devils Goaltender Game-by-Game Performance

And hell, Vanbiesbrouck was acquired *and* played well when used, and Robinson still didn't use him to give anything more than the most cursory of breaks to Marty.

 

[Toby91ca]

The series went 7, completely outplayed is an exaggeration! I guess by your theory the Devils completely outplayed the Avalanche!

Series went 7 games, relatively close series, but the goaltending was note close, Roy outplayed Brodeur handily.

 

[The Tourist]

Weird that they didn’t make rule changes to make sure Turco couldn’t handle the puck?

Did you think this was clever?

 

[Saitama]

His legacy hasn't changed for me! I'll always consider him a fairly decent top 50 or so goalie and that won't change, no sir!

 

[Ducks4Cup]

Roy played for some bad teams too. Hell, the 1993 Habs dont even sniff the finals if it wasn't for his heroics. Avalanche didn't win shit until he showed up.

Brdoeur is most definitely not the greatest of all time

93 Habs were a good team esp their defense. They had 102 points and were 18 games over .500
just stop with the revisionist history

 

[Pablo El Perro]

His legacy is fine.

 

[Doctor No]

93 Habs were a good team esp their defense. They had 102 points and were 18 games over .500
just stop with the revisionist history

And fifth in their conference.

 

[Xirik]

And fifth in their conference.

2012 Kings must be a really bad team then.

 

[Habsrule]

Brodeur 1991-2015
Roy 1983-2003
Hasek 1990-2008

I wish that we all could stop trying to rank the goalies and we should just be thankful that we got to watch 3 of the top 5 all time best goalies play together for a 12 year span.

If Brodeur played 10 years earlier or 10 years later we would be talking about him being the all time great.

 

[njdevils1982]

And fifth in their conference.

they were 4th...9 pts over the caps

 

[Doctor No]

they were 4th...9 pts over the caps

Good call - thanks! Was viewing HockeyDB quickly (too quickly) and Ralph orders the divisions Adams/Norris/Patrick/Smythe (so I mentally lumped Adams and Norris together).

2012 Kings must be a really bad team then.

Normally, the non-sequitur "what about?"s don't really do much for me, but I'd actually love to hear a well-reasoned argument for Jonathan Quick as an all-time great goaltender.

 

[njdevils1982]

Good call - thanks! Was viewing HockeyDB quickly (too quickly) and Ralph orders the divisions Adams/Norris/Patrick/Smythe (so I mentally lumped Adams and Norris together).



Normally, the non-sequitur "what about?"s don't really do much for me, but I'd actually love to hear a well-reasoned argument for Jonathan Quick as an all-time great goaltender.

ya, i had to look it up...also noticed they were 6th overall in a 24 team league and only 6 teams had a better GAA. (they tied with the wings)

hockey-reference is clear in the presentation of the season stats per conference left and right

...also, i like your Quick comment even if it puts a fellow fan 'on the spot' (sorry @Xirik)


one more thing....i've read hockeygoalies.org for years but it seems like it hasnt been working for a bit. any reason?

 

[holy]

He's still a GOAT goalie to me. Didn't realize perception had changed about him.

Hated him as a Habs fan, don't remember any player who was as frustrating to play against.

 

[Ducks4Cup]

And fifth in their conference.

1995 5th seeded devils SWEPT the presidents trophy redwings.

 

[Albatros]

He's still a GOAT goalie to me. Didn't realize perception had changed about him.

Hated him as a Habs fan, don't remember any player who was as frustrating to play against.

Brodeur was always on when he was in his native Montréal, but I don't think that effect existed against any other opponent.

 

[RalphKing]

Brodeur and even Roy barely get mentioned anymore. I think it's because Hasek was so much better than all the others in this era. Also, that era heavily favored goalies, which people recognize now, so goalies from that era aren't as valued in retrospect compared to 10-15 years ago.

 

[Xirik]

Good call - thanks! Was viewing HockeyDB quickly (too quickly) and Ralph orders the divisions Adams/Norris/Patrick/Smythe (so I mentally lumped Adams and Norris together).



Normally, the non-sequitur "what about?"s don't really do much for me, but I'd actually love to hear a well-reasoned argument for Jonathan Quick as an all-time great goaltender.

Whataboutism is when something totally unlinked to the topic is used to counter someones point. You brought up the fact that Montreal's conference standings before the playoffs wasn't good and means that the team surrounding Roy was bad.

using that argument about conference position clearly opens you to people countering your point by pointing out other teams who were low in the standings and also won the cup.

Seems like people throw around "fallacies" willy nilly without actually understanding what they actually are.

I never mentioned Quick so I don't know why you think I need to defend him? seems like you are trying to strawman me.

 

[Xirik]

Brodeur was always on when he was in his native Montréal, but I don't think that effect existed against any other opponent.

I don't like statmuse as a site but its the only site I could find that listed brodeur record against each team.
Martin Brodeur Win Percentage Vs Every Team | StatMuse

Canucks are the only team with a winning reccord against him and the Leafs and Bruins are the only teams that came close to being "equal"

How much those stats are because of the Devils team as a whole or Brodeur is hard to quantify though.

 

[Doctor No]

ya, i had to look it up...also noticed they were 6th overall in a 24 team league and only 6 teams had a better GAA. (they tied with the wings)

hockey-reference is clear in the presentation of the season stats per conference left and right

...also, i like your Quick comment even if it puts a fellow fan 'on the spot' (sorry @Xirik)


one more thing....i've read hockeygoalies.org for years but it seems like it hasnt been working for a bit. any reason?

Thank you - I appreciate it! Do you know which parts aren't working? I've been focusing mostly on the data elements lately (primarily the game-by-game logs this summer), which I think are active. I need to write more articles, but a few years back I started devoting more time to content on then-Twitter, which was a lot of fun but has run its course so I guess I need to start adding items (I have a few pieces ready).

I'm a fan of Quick's - heck, I'm a big fan of Marty's. The list of goaltenders that I don't like right now is probably less than five.

Still can't believe I boofed the conferences.