What ever happened to ... thread?

[Winger98]

Nah, Jurco just wasn't that skilled or smart. It shocks me that people still haven't figured this out and keep regurgitating old cliches. You need to be extremely skilled (not just QMJHL skilled) to get a massive offensive leash in the NHL. The kid was a deer in headlights every time he got the puck at the NHL level. It had nothing to do with Babcock and everything to do with Jurco.

Agree it's on Jurco but he seemed to be getting it with Babcock, until that back injury from a moderately dirty hit in a Boston game. Whether his back was never the same, or if he was gun shy, but the physical element of his game just disappeared after that.

Thought we saw something similar with Smith, tbh. He was looking good until the league hit him with that ridiculous suspension. Then he either tried to rein himself in or the coaches did. when these guys embraced playing physical games, they looked pretty good.

 

[Winger98]

I'm not gonna fault GR for Ryno's development. I was intrigued with him, but then I went to Traverse City in 2007 for training camp. And woof. He's a big guy, and big guys always *look* slower than maybe they are, but he was just not engaged. Low compete. Lazy at times. Maybe intimidated, I don't know. After day 1 I basically wrote him off and waited for the inevitable and other fans to realize what I did. His effort level is obviously good enough for the SHL, but it sure wasn't good enough for the NHL, and it was apparent he didn't want to put in the extra effort to get to that level anyway.

Totally nothing to back it up but I wonder if things would have played out differently if we'd been able to separate him from Axelsson. From what I recall there were always rumors that Axelsson had attitude issues and bringing them both over allowed them to insulate themselves a bit. Even for a guy with compete issues, Ryno was putting up respectable rookie numbers in GR.

 

[norrisnick]

Didn't Ryno go back because his gf was still in Sweden? And I'm not invested enough to look it up but I thought there was a kid on the way too. Buses and AHL salary not a terribly great draw away from home in such a situation.

 

[Gniwder]

I'm waiting to see where Cholo and Zadina wind up this summer. (Figure I'd post here instead of reviving a dead thread)

Meanwhile, Svech is looking like he's not even good enough for the KHL. He's just too slow for pro hockey.

 

[Konnan511]

Tom McCollum just won the DEL2 Championship, so things are looking up for him.
Filip Larsson has had a very good past three years in Sweden. He actually just signed with Pittsburgh last month, so he may get into the NHL after all (Still only 25).

 

[Peter Tosh]

In light of the big Jakub Rychlovský signing, it seems like a good time to remember some of our European FA signings over the last few years...

Libor Sulak
Mattias Brome
Jussi Olkinuora
Pontus Andreasson

Am I forgetting any?

Ville Leino, Illari Filppula

 

[Konnan511]

Ville Leino, Illari Filppula

It's a shame Filppula never got a shot in the NHL. He absolutely crushed it in the AHL, lead the team in scoring, and couldn't even get a sniff. Organization should have given him and Valtteri a game or two in the NHL together. Holland and Babcock are sucky people.

 

[Frk It]

It's a shame Filppula never got a shot in the NHL. He absolutely crushed it in the AHL, lead the team in scoring, and couldn't even get a sniff. Organization should have given him and Valtteri a game or two in the NHL together. Holland and Babcock are sucky people.

Holland was player-friendly to a fault, if anything.

Babcock is another story

 

[Gniwder]

Ville Leino, Illari Filppula

Damien Brunner, Patrick Rybar, Fabian Brunnstrom

 

[ricky0034]

In light of the big Jakub Rychlovský signing, it seems like a good time to remember some of our European FA signings over the last few years...

Libor Sulak
Mattias Brome
Jussi Olkinuora
Pontus Andreasson

Am I forgetting any?

Oliwer Kaski

 

[ricky0034]

Agree it's on Jurco but he seemed to be getting it with Babcock, until that back injury from a moderately dirty hit in a Boston game. Whether his back was never the same, or if he was gun shy, but the physical element of his game just disappeared after that.

Thought we saw something similar with Smith, tbh. He was looking good until the league hit him with that ridiculous suspension. Then he either tried to rein himself in or the coaches did. when these guys embraced playing physical games, they looked pretty good.

yeah I still think Jurco was on track to have a long NHL career before that injury

not as a star or anything but I think he would have been pretty firmly in the league for like a decade+

 

[norrisnick]

Holland was player-friendly to a fault, if anything.

Babcock is another story

While true, Holland didn't consider anyone outside of the NHL a player. Hence the rotting on the vine strategy of player development.

 

[Frk It]

While true, Holland didn't consider anyone outside of the NHL a player. Hence the rotting on the vine strategy of player development.

I think he was just overly loyal to the guys who already proved themselves. That said, I haven’t heard of any accounts of former or current players saying he was unfair or a jerk. I haven’t really seen anyone say anything bad about his character, at least not that I can think of.

Babcock is the total opposite as far as that goes. We have heard of a lot of players saying he was/is a dick.

 

[norrisnick]

I think he was just overly loyal to the guys who already proved themselves. That said, I haven’t heard of any accounts of former or current players saying he was unfair or a jerk. I haven’t really seen anyone say anything bad about his character, at least not that I can think of.

Babcock is the total opposite as far as that goes. We have heard of a lot of players saying he was/is a dick.

I mean... he's a nice guy, but anything to an extreme can become a character flaw. Not being able to cut ties with players that aren't performing anymore due to loyalty, may be seen as fair to that one player, but it's not really fair to the rest of the organization either.

 

[Gniwder]

While true, Holland didn't consider anyone outside of the NHL a player. Hence the rotting on the vine strategy of player development.

Was it Kenny or Babs though? The guys that played realgud like Helm and Abby spent less than 2 seasons in GR. We all know Nyke and Tats got buried, but Sheahan managed to make the team before Tats, and he also spent less than 2 seasons in GR even though he's a year younger.

Definitely seeing a different approach between top 6 and bottom 6 players.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

It turns out that everyone who "rotted on the vine" just sucked in the end save maybe Tats and Gus. No one excelled elsewhere after leaving the organization. The apologists will be having the same damn conversation about Berggren seven years from now.

Sorry guys, most NHL draft picks just suck in the end. The numbers speak for themselves.

 

[norrisnick]

It turns out that everyone who "rotted on the vine" just sucked in the end save maybe Tats and Gus. No one excelled elsewhere after leaving the organization. The apologists will be having the same damn conversation about Berggren seven years from now.

Sorry guys, most NHL draft picks just suck in the end. The numbers speak for themselves.

Berggren will have a 60+ point season within seven years. Will it happen in Detroit like it never did for Hudler, Tatar, Nyquist? Or will it happen after leaving like it did for all three of them? Letting scorers score is such a simple concept, yet... this organization seems to struggle with it at times.

 

[Henkka]

I'm old enough to remember when XO/Sproul was the next Lidstrom - Rafalski pairing.

It was next Suter and Weber.

Not Lids and Raf.

 

[odin1981]

I wonder what happened to Mike McKee? He was a 6'5 250ish d man that could fight. He was never expected to be more than like a #6-7 but he would have been nice to have as a deterrent to rat players.

 

[norrisnick]

I wonder what happened to Mike McKee? He was a 6'5 250ish d man that could fight. He was never expected to be more than like a #6-7 but he would have been nice to have as a deterrent to rat players.

He went back into the primordial prospect ooze and reformed as Brady Cleveland.

 

[odin1981]

He went back into the primordial prospect ooze and reformed as Brady Cleveland.

Wasn't he like a 6th or 7th rounder and not a second round pick?

 

[Avery Rule]

Who remembers Igor Grigorenko?

What how he would have turned out without the accident.

 

[lilidk]

I'm waiting to see where Cholo and Zadina wind up this summer. (Figure I'd post here instead of reviving a dead thread)

Meanwhile, Svech is looking like he's not even good enough for the KHL. He's just too slow for pro hockey.

Injury ruined him

 

[ricky0034]

It turns out that everyone who "rotted on the vine" just sucked in the end save maybe Tats and Gus. No one excelled elsewhere after leaving the organization. The apologists will be having the same damn conversation about Berggren seven years from now.

Sorry guys, most NHL draft picks just suck in the end. The numbers speak for themselves.

I mean at some point it's too late and just going somewhere else isn't gonna do anything

if you give someone else your bag of rotten grapes they're still gonna be rotten after they take them home even if they wash them

does that mean all or even most of those guys would have done better if they had been somewhere else from the start? of course not, but just looking at what they did after they left isn't really gonna tell you much

 

[Henkka]

Injury ruined him (Svechnikov)

Injury after injury after injury. Missed all time for development. That's a career killer.

I wonder if his younger brother is starting to have same path. Andrei looked healthy at early years, but since signing his 2nd contract for 8 years, he has been sucking bad vs. caphit. - because of injuries.