What ever happened to ... thread?

[PelagicJoe]

They should have called Yzerman who to draft....

2011:

#35 Tomas Jurco
#48 Xavier Ouellet
#55 Ryan Sproul
#58 Nikita Kucherov
#104 Marek Tvrdon (0 NHL games)
#145 Mattias Backman (0 NHL games)
#148 Nikita Nesterov (170 NHL games)
#205 Alexey Marchenko
#208 Ondrej Palat

Man, we really killed it in the Bust, I mean, Draft Class of 2011, didn't we? To quote Charles Barkley, "It was TUURRRRRRRIBLE."

 

[jaster]

Grigorenko is a couldabeen that became a neverwas because of a terrible car crash. The dude is practically part cyborg with how much metal he has in his hip and leg. If it weren't for that injury Grigorenko would have been the type of player to score 35+ per year after the 2005 lockout. Amazing shot, hands and agility.

Johan Ryno and Dick Axelsson are two guys I had really high hopes for. Both went on to have pretty solid SHL careers but neither guy wanted to work their way up from Grand Rapids to the bigs. I don't know what the hell was going on with GR and the team's developmental staff from 2007 to 2013. It seems like it was a gong show when you look at the near misses we had.

I'm not gonna fault GR for Ryno's development. I was intrigued with him, but then I went to Traverse City in 2007 for training camp. And woof. He's a big guy, and big guys always *look* slower than maybe they are, but he was just not engaged. Low compete. Lazy at times. Maybe intimidated, I don't know. After day 1 I basically wrote him off and waited for the inevitable and other fans to realize what I did. His effort level is obviously good enough for the SHL, but it sure wasn't good enough for the NHL, and it was apparent he didn't want to put in the extra effort to get to that level anyway.

 

[SuperScript29]

Grigorenko is a couldabeen that became a neverwas because of a terrible car crash. The dude is practically part cyborg with how much metal he has in his hip and leg. If it weren't for that injury Grigorenko would have been the type of player to score 35+ per year after the 2005 lockout. Amazing shot, hands and agility.

Johan Ryno and Dick Axelsson are two guys I had really high hopes for. Both went on to have pretty solid SHL careers but neither guy wanted to work their way up from Grand Rapids to the bigs. I don't know what the hell was going on with GR and the team's developmental staff from 2007 to 2013. It seems like it was a gong show when you look at the near misses we had.

Yea the whole Grigorenko story was very sad. I still remember 2003 like it was yesterday, he had a huge year in the top Russian league by leading his team and he also had an amazing WJC performance by winning the gold, leading the tourny in points (Tied with others), and awarded as the top forward award.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yea the whole Grigorenko story was very sad. I still remember 2003 like it was yesterday, he had a huge year in the top Russian league by leading his team and he also had an amazing WJC performance by winning the gold, leading the tourny in points (Tied with others), and awarded as the top forward award.

I remember going to the Red Wings prospect camp in Troy Michigan in 2001 or 2002 and Grigorenko was just so much more skilled than any other kid on the ice for Detroit. He was making moves all over that made Detroit's defense prospects out there look foolish. I remember in particular that he pulled a Savardian spinorama on Jesse Ballantyne in a drill that caused Jesse to look like he broke his ankles trying to stop Grigorenko. And he made a game of sniping the posts from outside of the circles with another prospect. I can't remember who, but Grigorenko easily won. That guy had an absolute laser of a shot.

 

[Ricelund]

I've always thought it was odd that he never played again after his injury filled time with the Wings. Was he that broken?

Same. He never even got a PTO. His injuries must’ve been pretty bad.

 

[Run the Jewels]

This thread reminds me how awful Ken Holland was at drafting for most of his tenure.

What's truly amazing is that after Hakan Andersson drafted Nik Kronwall in 2000 Ken Holland never gave him another first round draft pick. It was pure incompetence. It's great to see Kronwall come full circle and scout under Hakan, it sounds like he's doing a fantastic job.

 

[ChadS]

Man, we really killed it in the Bust, I mean, Draft Class of 2011, didn't we? To quote Charles Barkley, "It was TUURRRRRRRIBLE."

Thinking back I'm pretty sure many on here (including myself) considered that class quite good even three years after the draft. Jurco (point-per-game), Sproul (30+ points), Marchenko and Ouellet all having had solid rookie seasons in GR, and Bäckman with already two strong seasons in the SHL (best +/- in the league, top-scoring d-man in playoffs). Just goes to show how fast things can change.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

What's truly amazing is that after Hakan Andersson drafted Nik Kronwall in 2000 Ken Holland never gave him another first round draft pick. It was pure incompetence. It's great to see Kronwall come full circle and scout under Hakan, it sounds like he's doing a fantastic job.

I have to wonder if Holland didn't look favorably upon Hakan after he fully had the reins as GM. Or maybe Holland had too much confidence in Hakan and said, "Naaah. We can give this guy a 9th rounder and he'll find us a Holmstrom every year!"

 

[Henkka]

I have to wonder if Holland didn't look favorably upon Hakan after he fully had the reins as GM. Or maybe Holland had too much confidence in Hakan and said, "Naaah. We can give this guy a 9th rounder and he'll find us a Holmstrom every year!"

That's kind of the "mistake" Holland maybe made on those bad last years.

Holland trusted his scouting director Tyler Wright to do those high picks (as as he did with Jim Nill for a decade), and believed that Håkan would still make those miracles from low rounds. This could still benefit a huge bonus as Söderblom, from Wright's last draft. But also, at same year, they did trust in Håkan with the highest pick in Seider.

Yzerman turned opposite around. He has trusted Håkan at every single draft with the high pick. And Draper has made more of those lower picks.

It's really the biggest change in Wings draft tactics.

Tyler Wright's 5 drafts under Holland:

Highest picks from:
- USHL
- QMJHL
- BCHL
- WHL
- QMJHL

Since Yzerman took change
- DEL, Germany
- SHL
- SHL
- SHL

Our last highest pick from Europe, since Seider pick at 2019, was Johan Franzen at 2004 (#97 overall), made by who else than Håkan Andersson. And it was a slam dunk, once again.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I remember going to the Red Wings prospect camp in Troy Michigan in 2001 or 2002 and Grigorenko was just so much more skilled than any other kid on the ice for Detroit. He was making moves all over that made Detroit's defense prospects out there look foolish. I remember in particular that he pulled a Savardian spinorama on Jesse Ballantyne in a drill that caused Jesse to look like he broke his ankles trying to stop Grigorenko. And he made a game of sniping the posts from outside of the circles with another prospect. I can't remember who, but Grigorenko easily won. That guy had an absolute laser of a shot.

Red Wings probably have another Cup or two if Grigorenko never gets into that car accident. No need for Kyle Calder in 2007, extra depth scoring in 2009, all because Grigorenko is just below the Datsyuk/Zetterberg level of talent and scoring. My guess if that he would have produced a bit more than Hudler, potentially a lot more.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Red Wings probably have another Cup or two if Grigorenko never gets into that car accident. No need for Kyle Calder in 2007, extra depth scoring in 2009, all because Grigorenko is just below the Datsyuk/Zetterberg level of talent and scoring. My guess if that he would have produced a bit more than Hudler, potentially a lot more.

Especially in the NHL post-lockout. I could have seen him at the Frolov/Havlat level as a talent. Maybe even better.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

i’d like to nominate mbh

 

[PullHard]

Echoing old posts I know, but knowing what we know about Babcock now, I wonder with a more development friendly/ human friendly coach how much more we could have gotten out of guys like Smith, Kindl, Almquist, etc.

And I just want to say, yes I also thought highly of Babcock because he got a lot out of our dogshit rosters at the end of his time in Detroit, but I used to get shouted down pretty routinely in GDTs and post game threads for questioning his tactics and player deployment. I’m taking the opportunity to pat myself on the back for it this time.

 

[dalem177]

Echoing old posts I know, but knowing what we know about Babcock now, I wonder with a more development friendly/ human friendly coach how much more we could have gotten out of guys like Smith, Kindl, Almquist, etc.

And I just want to say, yes I also thought highly of Babcock because he got a lot out of our dogshit rosters at the end of his time in Detroit, but I used to get shouted down pretty routinely in GDTs and post game threads for questioning his tactics and player deployment. I’m taking the opportunity to pat myself on the back for it this time.

I don't know d*ck about sh*t, and I have no big thing against Babs, but I will note - because I'm a child - that he has "cock" as part of his name.

Just sayin'

 

[Henkka]

What's truly amazing is that after Hakan Andersson drafted Nik Kronwall in 2000 Ken Holland never gave him another first round draft pick. It was pure incompetence. It's great to see Kronwall come full circle and scout under Hakan, it sounds like he's doing a fantastic job.

On those days, it was kind of the tactic to put Håkan find late round gems, when it was easier. It has then changed, it's extremely difficult to find those nowadays, and Yzerman turned the tactic around.

But it wasn't bad on the early days... like, we did get Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Franzen, Ericsson, Nyquist, Tatar etc. outside from 1-2 rounds.

 

[SoupNazi]

i’d like to nominate mbh

Don't even poke that bear, Barry, unless you want me to ship you over to the Leafs board and make you an honorary Leafs fan.

And I can do it, too.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

Let's not forget Pookie

 

[izlez]

In light of the big Jakub Rychlovský signing, it seems like a good time to remember some of our European FA signings over the last few years...

Libor Sulak
Mattias Brome
Jussi Olkinuora
Pontus Andreasson

Am I forgetting any?

 

[Frk It]

Let's not forget Pookie

I’m pretty convinced the reason for him busting had everything to do with you guys giving him this terrible nickname and very little to do with him as a hockey player.

 

[lomekian]

They should have called Yzerman who to draft....

2011:

#35 Tomas Jurco
#48 Xavier Ouellet
#55 Ryan Sproul
#58 Nikita Kucherov
#104 Marek Tvrdon (0 NHL games)
#145 Mattias Backman (0 NHL games)
#148 Nikita Nesterov (170 NHL games)
#205 Alexey Marchenko
#208 Ondrej Palat

Just saw this as the thread got bumped -

Funny thing is in the D+1 year we were doing victory laps
Jurco had a great year in the Q, smashing it in the playoffs.
Oullet went PPG as D despite being on a terrible team and was in the Q team of the year.
Sproul went almost PPG in the OHL (which he topped the following year as OHL D of the year);
Tverdon went above PPG in the WHL and was one of the better wingers in the league
Backman played all season in the SHL and was too good for the u20 league
Marchenko was dominant in the MHL and broke into the KHL (better PPG than Nesterov despite being a more overtly defensive Dman)

Also 85th overall Alan Quine was more than PPG in the OHL on the way to a brief NHL career with NYI
And 175th pick Richard Nedomlel moe than quadrupled his point production from his draft year

In June 2012 it looked like we had absolutely smashed the draft and could probably have done very nicely trading away some of those players at the point!

 

[19 for president]

Just saw this as the thread got bumped -

Funny thing is in the D+1 year we were doing victory laps
Jurco had a great year in the Q, smashing it in the playoffs.
Oullet went PPG as D despite being on a terrible team and was in the Q team of the year.
Sproul went almost PPG in the OHL (which he topped the following year as OHL D of the year);
Tverdon went above PPG in the WHL and was one of the better wingers in the league
Backman played all season in the SHL and was too good for the u20 league
Marchenko was dominant in the MHL and broke into the KHL (better PPG than Nesterov despite being a more overtly defensive Dman)

Also 85th overall Alan Quine was more than PPG in the OHL on the way to a brief NHL career with NYI
And 175th pick Richard Nedomlel moe than quadrupled his point production from his draft year

In June 2012 it looked like we had absolutely smashed the draft and could probably have done very nicely trading away some of those players at the point!

I still to this day think its an absolute shame that we were not able to develop anyone from that draft, and I do believe it was a development issue to some degree. We basically just sunk them in GR and waited for their waiver expiration outside of Jurco. This draft is why I have such a fear of overstocking GR with dmen.

Jurco and Smith are the two guys that I think could and should have been better than they were but Babs killed everything that was special about them. Jurco's eventual back problems also played a big role towards the end, but Babs really tried to make these guys defensive players and neither of them were.

 

[SoupNazi]

Just saw this as the thread got bumped -

Funny thing is in the D+1 year we were doing victory laps
Jurco had a great year in the Q, smashing it in the playoffs.
Oullet went PPG as D despite being on a terrible team and was in the Q team of the year.
Sproul went almost PPG in the OHL (which he topped the following year as OHL D of the year);
Tverdon went above PPG in the WHL and was one of the better wingers in the league
Backman played all season in the SHL and was too good for the u20 league
Marchenko was dominant in the MHL and broke into the KHL (better PPG than Nesterov despite being a more overtly defensive Dman)

Also 85th overall Alan Quine was more than PPG in the OHL on the way to a brief NHL career with NYI
And 175th pick Richard Nedomlel moe than quadrupled his point production from his draft year

In June 2012 it looked like we had absolutely smashed the draft and could probably have done very nicely trading away some of those players at the point!

I'm old enough to remember when XO/Sproul was the next Lidstrom - Rafalski pairing.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I still to this day think its an absolute shame that we were not able to develop anyone from that draft, and I do believe it was a development issue to some degree. We basically just sunk them in GR and waited for their waiver expiration outside of Jurco. This draft is why I have such a fear of overstocking GR with dmen.

Jurco and Smith are the two guys that I think could and should have been better than they were but Babs killed everything that was special about them. Jurco's eventual back problems also played a big role towards the end, but Babs really tried to make these guys defensive players and neither of them were.

Nah, Jurco just wasn't that skilled or smart. It shocks me that people still haven't figured this out and keep regurgitating old cliches. You need to be extremely skilled (not just QMJHL skilled) to get a massive offensive leash in the NHL. The kid was a deer in headlights every time he got the puck at the NHL level. It had nothing to do with Babcock and everything to do with Jurco.

 

[Frk It]

Just saw this as the thread got bumped -

Funny thing is in the D+1 year we were doing victory laps
Jurco had a great year in the Q, smashing it in the playoffs.
Oullet went PPG as D despite being on a terrible team and was in the Q team of the year.
Sproul went almost PPG in the OHL (which he topped the following year as OHL D of the year);
Tverdon went above PPG in the WHL and was one of the better wingers in the league
Backman played all season in the SHL and was too good for the u20 league
Marchenko was dominant in the MHL and broke into the KHL (better PPG than Nesterov despite being a more overtly defensive Dman)

Also 85th overall Alan Quine was more than PPG in the OHL on the way to a brief NHL career with NYI
And 175th pick Richard Nedomlel moe than quadrupled his point production from his draft year

In June 2012 it looked like we had absolutely smashed the draft and could probably have done very nicely trading away some of those players at the point!

I think the process was good in this draft we just didn’t get the results.

Honestly the drafting in rounds 2-7 under Holland was pretty damn good up until Tyler Wright came around. Was usually pretty easy for me to see the thought process behind the picks.

If those players could have just improved the 1 or 2 things needed, they could have been impact players for us. I would pick guys like Jurco, XO, Sproul in the 2nd round every time.

 

[PokeyTheCat]

In light of the big Jakub Rychlovský signing, it seems like a good time to remember some of our European FA signings over the last few years...

Libor Sulak
Mattias Brome
Jussi Olkinuora
Pontus Andreasson

Am I forgetting any?

Damien Brunner and that glorious schnoz