Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

[settinguptheplay]

I literally spat out my coffee when the trade was announced..I hated giving up a 1st,but what is a 26 year old JT miller (and his cost controlled contract) worth..?...I would say a 1st round pick....Probably not a top 10 pick, though.

I don't hate this trade as much as I did on Saturday...Tyler Myers though.,...thats a different story.

I was overjoyed when the trade was first announced. But the conditional pick had not yet been defined. I got cold chills down my spine when I heard it was a 1st. But I have faith that this team is playoff bound in the next 2 seasons. Our core has to be one of the youngest in the league. I think some progression is a reasonable expectation for this group moving forward. If we are still out of the playoffs 2 years from now our core simply is not good enough and will need to be torn down again.

 

[Siludin]

The Canucks lost ahead of the conference final in every season before they made the finals.
At some point you need to shoot for the playoffs.
Expecting this team to be a cup contender by only drafting is a bit crazy.
Sometimes you need to add talent to give confidence to the existing team that next season you will be better.
Very very few teams make the playoffs and suddenly win the cup. Almost all of them take a few stabs.
If they didn't add anything to the forward group this offseason, it would mean missing the playoffs again for sure, and nobody here wants that.
They needed a guarantee their team is better this year than last year in case they struck out in free agency.
Some draftists just get get tunnel vision for the draft, love slurping up delicious young 1st-round picks for "the system", and counting their little chickens ("assets") before they hatch, without realizing their eye has been so far off the prize for years that they forgot what this game is about - winning hockey.

 

[VanJack]

Canucks better pray that last season was just an outlier for Miller, because 13 goals on an offensive juggernaut like the Lightning, does not constitute a legitimate top-six winger.....those are Josh Leivo and Tanner Pearson numbers.

 

[Siludin]

Canucks better pray that last season was just an outlier for Miller, because 13 goals on an offensive juggernaut like the Lightning, does not constitute a legitimate top-six winger.....those are Josh Leivo and Tanner Pearson numbers.

Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne on Colorado

 

[Pavel96]

Canucks better pray that last season was just an outlier for Miller, because 13 goals on an offensive juggernaut like the Lightning, does not constitute a legitimate top-six winger.....those are Josh Leivo and Tanner Pearson numbers.

That's because he was playing on the 4th line a lot. But that's only because Tampa is so good and on good teams legit second line players, play on the fourth line all year and they are still second line players. And he is a legit top 6 forward. And some will say he has produced like a legit second line player his whole career. And he's incredibly healthy, young, and on a steal of a contract, apparently. The fact he has been traded twice is in two years is a complete coincidence, and only because he was the only player on both teams that could be traded, for some reason. Basically he will be a perfect fit and mentor on the first line.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Maybe this was posted already...

JT Miller scored 24 of his 34 points playing with Steven Stamkos last year, who was also his most common linemate.

 

[kcunac]

The Petey-Boeser line needs someone doing puck retrieval. The ideal player would be speedy, physical, and with enough skill/IQ to keep up and make plays at a first line level. Could this be Miller? I hope so and if so I will be happy with having acquired him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The Petey-Boeser line needs someone doing puck retrieval. The ideal player would be speedy, physical, and with enough skill/IQ to keep up and make plays at a first line level. Could this be Miller? I hope so and if so I will be happy with having acquired him.

Could be him yes.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Maybe this was posted already...

JT Miller scored 24 of his 34 points playing with Steven Stamkos last year, who was also his most common linemate.

He had 47 points last season

 

[tantalum]

The Canucks lost ahead of the conference final in every season before they made the finals.
At some point you need to shoot for the playoffs.
Expecting this team to be a cup contender by only drafting is a bit crazy.
Sometimes you need to add talent to give confidence to the existing team that next season you will be better.
Very very few teams make the playoffs and suddenly win the cup. Almost all of them take a few stabs.
If they didn't add anything to the forward group this offseason, it would mean missing the playoffs again for sure, and nobody here wants that.
They needed a guarantee their team is better this year than last year in case they struck out in free agency.
Some draftists just get get tunnel vision for the draft, love slurping up delicious young 1st-round picks for "the system", and counting their little chickens ("assets") before they hatch, without realizing their eye has been so far off the prize for years that they forgot what this game is about - winning hockey.

No one is saying that you use drafting only to become a cup contender.

There is a difference between being a playoff team and a cup contender. A playoff team basically needs a bit of talent in every position and depth. A cup contender needs much more talent and more depth. While this isn't the thread for the trade reasoning we can say that sure JT MIller provides some talent and depth. No doubt. The problem is does his talent and depth offset the hit you take in future depth moving forward? Depth you still need no matter a playoff team or cup contender. The issue is they are robbing Peter to pay Paul and that so very very rarely works when the team doing this is a bad team. It is how you become the Oilers and what the Flames were for many years. It's something you do when you are CLOSE. Not something you do when you miss the playoffs by double digits in a year where the west was extremely weak.

To get to be a playoff team you use drafting and some astute signings and deals. Create and deal from a position of strength...something that this management team has never, ever done.

Sure they need to improve. The reason they haven't improved is because of bad signings, bad trades and wasting of assets. You don't counteract that by making things (much) worse later on for a minor temporary blip (what JT MIller brings is not going to move the needle much for this team). And really you don't do a deal in case you miss out in free agency. You see what happens and then think about doing a deal. Though you still never make this deal unless it's deadline day and you have a legit shot at a cup run.

And, quite frankly, you don't use your prime assets (and first round picks are just that) to address a need that is further down the list. If they had used the pick to address the major gaping problems on the blueline I think many would have a different perspective. They will instead use cash to address try to address the major issue and be unsuccessful because no D-man in UFA is a top 3 guy which is what they need (2 of them to be quite frank). They used significant assets to address the more minor issue and the return is, well, underwhelming. Now they only really have cash to address the REAL issue and the available players do not fit the need and well they don't actually have the necessary cap room.

 

[ErrantShepherd]

Maybe this was posted already...

JT Miller scored 24 of his 34 points playing with Steven Stamkos last year, who was also his most common linemate.

NHL.com JT Miller
2018-2019 Regular Season

GP	G	A	P	+/-
75	13	34	47	8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

24 of 47 Points, Puck.

68 58 points the year previous split between NYR and TB, career high so far with 23 goals, and two 20 goal seasons before that.

In a vacuum, I actually kind of like that he apparently had some chemistry with the Lightning's most skilled players when he wasn't doing duty further down the lineup.

Also, if he manages to hover around 20ish goals/50ish points here that still makes him our 4th best forward currently and 4th best point producer overall this year.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

24 of 47 Points, Puck.

68 points the year previous split between NYR and TB, career high so far with 23 goals, and two 20 goal seasons before that.

In a vacuum, I actually kind of like that he apparently had some chemistry with the Lightning's most skilled players when he wasn't doing duty further down the lineup.

Also, if he manages to hover around 20ish goals/50ish points here that still makes him our 4th best forward currently and 4th best point producer overall this year.

Thanks! Thats much better.

 

[CanaFan]

24 of 47 Points, Puck.

68 points the year previous split between NYR and TB, career high so far with 23 goals, and two 20 goal seasons before that.

In a vacuum, I actually kind of like that he apparently had some chemistry with the Lightning's most skilled players when he wasn't doing duty further down the lineup.

Also, if he manages to hover around 20ish goals/50ish points here that still makes him our 4th best forward currently and 4th best point producer overall this year.

Probably just a typo, but it’s 58.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Probably just a typo, but it’s 58.

Hah take that you fact checking bastard @ErrantShepherd

 

[ErrantShepherd]

Hah take that you fact checking bastard @ErrantShepherd

Hah, yeah. My brain mathed wrong this morning.
Still 58 that year and a general 50ish points for a few years is solid.

...kinda makes me wish we had another Miller type on this team production wise. That and an actual upgrade on our defense could make us legitimately competitive over being just being dragged through the year by our big 3.

(I know that's a hell of an ask from our current management, but a man can dream)

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

We didn’t have anything other than our core to trade and in order to add to that core you need to trade picks without removing players in the process.
He will be a solid addition without subtraction to our roster who is already one of the youngest in the league.

 

[4Twenty]

27 even strength points when he played 50% of his even strength ice time with a 98 point player is not good. 177th forward in the league in EV points.

Stamkos had 56.

He's a nice player, but people are trying to build him up to something he isn't. Not sure he puts up top 50 PP production here either.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

If it’s a pick in the 20’s it’s a slight over payment by throwing in the third.
If it’s a top 10 pick we risk having given up an EP, Hughes or Horvat. Looking at our last five drafts and assuming that we’d taken Tkachuk which was a no brainer, we hit on four of our last five firsts. Even with Virtanen it’s still possible he develops into a third liner. So an 80% chance of getting a high impact player with the 20% downside being a heavy hitting third liner who plays reasonably well defensively.
If it’s the first or second overall it sets the franchise back at least a decade.
So much risk for not nearly enough reward imo.
And I like Miller as a player.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Hah, yeah. My brain mathed wrong this morning.
Still 58 that year and a general 50ish points for a few years is solid.

...kinda makes me wish we had another Miller type on this team production wise. That and an actual upgrade on our defense could make us legitimately competitive over being just being dragged through the year by our big 3.

(I know that's a hell of an ask from our current management, but a man can dream)

Didnt Goldobin produce at a 50p pace until he got in to Greens dog house?

 

[Bankerguy]

Guys,

If they stick Miller on Pettersson's line then i'd be ticked off if i'm Horvat. They took away star winger Boeser to play with Pettersson and left Horvat to play with bottom or middle 6 players.
now we secure our second legit top 6 winger and you put him on the top line too?
Give Horvat some support... he's the heart and soul of this team. If they plan on pairing Miller on the top line with Boeser then they better find another legit top 6 winger for poor Bo.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

We didn’t have anything other than our core to trade and in order to add to that core you need to trade picks without removing players in the process.
He will be a solid addition without subtraction to our roster who is already one of the youngest in the league.

This is honestly the most damning judgment of Bennings tenure here.

We have NO trade-able assets.

 

[Hansen]

He's a pretty glorified version of Tanner Pearson

Hopefully he can capture some of Petey/Bo's production and become an asset we can flip for a 1st in a couple years

 

[Regal]

Canucks better pray that last season was just an outlier for Miller, because 13 goals on an offensive juggernaut like the Lightning, does not constitute a legitimate top-six winger.....those are Josh Leivo and Tanner Pearson numbers.

The team being so good only hurt his numbers. He played large chunks of the year on the 4th line due to their depth.

 

[Regal]

27 even strength points when he played 50% of his even strength ice time with a 98 point player is not good. 177th forward in the league in EV points.

Stamkos had 56.

He's a nice player, but people are trying to build him up to something he isn't. Not sure he puts up top 50 PP production here either.

At 5v5, he played 394:48 with Stamkos and 483:00 without, so he played 45% of his time with Stamkos, but Stamkos played 682:00 without Miller, which means he only played 36.7% of his time with Miller, so comparing Stamkos's totals as if he played half his time with Miller is flawed.

They also didn't mesh well. When on the ice together 5v5, Miller had 10 points, for a 1.52 P/60, and Stamkos had 17 for a P/60 of 2.58. When apart, Miller had 14 5v5 points for 1.74 P/60, playing with Cirelli, Killorn, Paquette, etc.

Playing with Stamkos didn't really help his game, and he produced at borderline 2nd line rates with bottom 6 players in his other minutes. This was also his worst season. He produced at a 2nd line rate 5v5 his previous 3 years before last year

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

No one is saying that you use drafting only to become a cup contender.

There is a difference between being a playoff team and a cup contender. A playoff team basically needs a bit of talent in every position and depth. A cup contender needs much more talent and more depth. While this isn't the thread for the trade reasoning we can say that sure JT MIller provides some talent and depth. No doubt. The problem is does his talent and depth offset the hit you take in future depth moving forward? Depth you still need no matter a playoff team or cup contender. The issue is they are robbing Peter to pay Paul and that so very very rarely works when the team doing this is a bad team. It is how you become the Oilers and what the Flames were for many years. It's something you do when you are CLOSE. Not something you do when you miss the playoffs by double digits in a year where the west was extremely weak.

To get to be a playoff team you use drafting and some astute signings and deals. Create and deal from a position of strength...something that this management team has never, ever done.

Sure they need to improve. The reason they haven't improved is because of bad signings, bad trades and wasting of assets. You don't counteract that by making things (much) worse later on for a minor temporary blip (what JT MIller brings is not going to move the needle much for this team). And really you don't do a deal in case you miss out in free agency. You see what happens and then think about doing a deal. Though you still never make this deal unless it's deadline day and you have a legit shot at a cup run.

And, quite frankly, you don't use your prime assets (and first round picks are just that) to address a need that is further down the list. If they had used the pick to address the major gaping problems on the blueline I think many would have a different perspective. They will instead use cash to address try to address the major issue and be unsuccessful because no D-man in UFA is a top 3 guy which is what they need (2 of them to be quite frank). They used significant assets to address the more minor issue and the return is, well, underwhelming. Now they only really have cash to address the REAL issue and the available players do not fit the need and well they don't actually have the necessary cap room.

Agree with most of this post...although I think it's a bit premature to say that JT Miller is not going to move the needle much for the team?..Its another year of experience for the younger core players, and I can only see Miller adding to that (unless you're forecasting a regression ?).

I believe the Canucks were 2nd in the league for losing by a single goal last year..A solid reinforcement in the top 6 is going to move the needle.

Now if they could only fix the D...