Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

[Spectrefire]

1st round pick aside (even though I strongly suspect it'll end up being a 20's 1st round), JT Miller is a fantastic f***ing player. Probably the most legitimate top-six winger this team has acquired in the past decade.

He's been a consistent 50+ point producer, he's still in his prime, he's versatile as hell, and if he can stay on Petey's wing, I think it's not out of the realm of possibility for him to take that next step into being a 60 point forward.

If Miller can put up 60 points a season for the duration of his contract, and elevate Petey to that 80-90 point point status, he'd be worth the cost of acquisition.

For me, I am ok with the trade. Canucks might of gave a little too much. Miller had 56, 58 and 47 points the last 3 seasons. The 56 and 58 points he was playing in the top 6. In those season he was 28th and 41st in winger scoring. We can make an argument that if Miller's gets top 6, he is first line winger. The numbers don't lie.

A top wingers that put up those numbers is worth a Mid to late 1st or two seconds. I think the Canucks will make the playoffs for at least one of the next 3 years. That's guarantee the pick will be 16th or higher. To me when it all said and done, Canucks overpaid a 3rd round pick. However it turns out to be top 5 pick then I don't like the trade.

I agree with you. I guess I'm one of the few people here who actually think the Canucks have a legitimate shot at the playoffs next season. If we make it, that pick essentially becomes a 20's 1st, which at the end of the day, is a big price, but far less than what people are making it out to be. It's basically a glorified 2nd rounder at that point given how interchangeable players usually are between picks 20 and 40. If we miss the playoffs, then we keep the pick no big deal.

The 2021st pick I definitely expect it to be a 20's pick in a weak draft, which isn't an issue at all. If it somehow turns into a lottery pick as the result of the Canucks still being complete garbage by then, then we legitimately have way more serious issues to be concerned about.

 

[TryamkinPleaseReturn]

We gave up a potential top 5 pick. Even if it's unlikely to be top 5, it's possible. For JT Miller. It's like Benning thinks he traded for Mackinnon.

Best case scenario, Miller's stats are boosted, playing the whole time along Pettersson. We end up trading him to a playoff team a year from now for a 1st and a 3rd. Worst case scenario, we win the draft lottery in 2021. Which (now) is totally possible. Tampa made a win/win trade. Benning on the other hand... what kind of lunatic would make this kind of lose/don't-win-but-don't-necessarily-lose trade?

 

[Spectrefire]

We gave up a potential top 5 pick. Even if it's unlikely to be top 5, it's possible. For JT Miller. It's like Benning thinks he traded for Mackinnon.

Best case scenario, Miller's stats are boosted, playing the whole time along Pettersson. We end up trading him to a playoff team a year from now for a 1st and a 3rd. Worst case scenario, we win the draft lottery in 2021. Which (now) is totally possible. Tampa made a win/win trade. Benning on the other hand... what kind of lunatic would make this kind of lose/don't-win-but-don't-necessarily-lose trade?

The pick is lottery protected for next season, and like I said, the odds of us missing the playoffs in 2021 is low, especially after this trade, and if we do miss the playoffs that year, then this team has MUCH bigger problems at hand.

The worst case scenario is obviously awful, but it's also such a remote possibility that I'm not too miffed about it yet. Also, you're having a laugh if you think 1st and 3rd is enough to get Mackinnon.

The best case scenario is Miller puts up 60 points and elevates Pettersson to the next step, and if Petey takes a next step, I think the team will be playoff bound. That's not a bad outcome for a late 1st round.

 

[me2]

The pick is lottery protected for next season, and like I said, the odds of us missing the playoffs in 2021 is low, especially after this trade, and if we do miss the playoffs that year, then this team has MUCH bigger problems at hand.

The worst case scenario is obviously awful, but it's also such a remote possibility that I'm not too miffed about it yet. Also, you're having a laugh if you think 1st and 3rd is enough to get Mackinnon.

The best case scenario is Miller puts up 60 points and elevates Pettersson to the next step, and if Petey takes a next step, I think the team will be playoff bound. That's not a bad outcome for a late 1st round.

The canucks are a knee injury to Pettersson away from being a lottery pick lock in 2021.

 

[Spectrefire]

The canucks are a knee injury to Pettersson away from being a lottery pick lock in 2021.

it all depends on how the rest of the team develops. But Like I said, if this team is still awful in 2021, I have far more things to be concerned about as a fan than a draft pick.

 

[TryamkinPleaseReturn]

The pick is lottery protected for next season, and like I said, the odds of us missing the playoffs in 2021 is low, especially after this trade, and if we do miss the playoffs that year, then this team has MUCH bigger problems at hand.

The worst case scenario is obviously awful, but it's also such a remote possibility that I'm not too miffed about it yet. Also, you're having a laugh if you think 1st and 3rd is enough to get Mackinnon.

The best case scenario is Miller puts up 60 points and elevates Pettersson to the next step, and if Petey takes a next step, I think the team will be playoff bound. That's not a bad outcome for a late 1st round.

And how about the 2021 1st overall and a high 3rd round pick? Is that enough for Mackinnon? I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's a possibility. A possibility that is absolutely avoidable.

Also, I wouldn't simply assign the credit for Pettersson taking the next step to playing with JT Miller. Pettersson is gonna do what Pettersson is gonna do. Hopefully Miller can play up to his role.

 

[Spectrefire]

> And how about the 2021 1st overall and a high 3rd round pick? Is that enough for Mackinnon?

Uh... no? Seriously?

Nathan Mackinnon is one of the best f***ing centers in the NHL. 4 first round picks probably isn't enough value for him.

 

[Lindgren]

For me, I am ok with the trade. Canucks might of gave a little too much. Miller had 56, 58 and 47 points the last 3 seasons. The 56 and 58 points he was playing in the top 6. In those season he was 28th and 41st in winger scoring. We can make an argument that if Miller's gets top 6, he is first line winger. The numbers don't lie.

A top wingers that put up those numbers is worth a Mid to late 1st or two 2nds. I think the Canucks will make the playoffs for at least one of the next 3 years. That's guarantee the pick will be 16th or higher. To me when it all said and done, Canucks overpaid a 3rd round pick. However it turns out to be top 5 pick then I don't like the trade.

I am not understanding why people are sayinh we could gotten Miller cheaper. A player that capable of putting close to 60 points are sold for peanuts.

Tell me, what do you think Miller is worth? Before you answer remember Miller did put up 1st line winger numbers in 2 out of last 3 seasons.

Considering the cap position Tampa was in, I would have thought a second and a third would have been sufficient. I don't know that for a fact of course: just guessing. But the worth of the player must be considered in context. Tampa needed to unload salary, and there weren't many teams in a position to take salary on.

Note, the Canucks need to make the playoffs in one of the next two years, not three as you said, in order for the pick not to be in the lottery.

 

[Canucks1096]

Considering the cap position Tampa was in, I would have thought a second and a third would have been sufficient. I don't know that for a fact of course: just guessing. But the worth of the player must be considered in context. Tampa needed to unload salary, and there weren't many teams in a position to take salary on.

Note, the Canucks need to make the playoffs in one of the next two years, not three as you said, in order for the pick not to be in the lottery.

Yes one of the next 2 years, it was a typo.

Let me ask you this. Do you think there was a team that offered a 2nd or 3rd. If yes, what advantage does Tampa have to making the trade with Van? We are not offering more than what other teams are offering.

Should JB just say my final offer is 2nd and 3rd? And wait For Tampa GM to call him back? Hopefully Pray that Tampa GM will pick us to make the trade.

Yes Tampa needs to get rid of salary but their roster is not full of 6 M Lucic. They have players that have value. Regardless if they have cap issues. I don't think it will lower the players values. Tampa have players that team wants.

 

[sting101]

I dislike the trade for two reasons: I think the Canucks could have acquired Miller for less, and, although he's a good player, I don't think his addition will mean the Canucks will make the playoffs.

For those who like the trade -- is that dependent on thinking the Canucks will make the postseason either this year or next, or does your opinion of the deal change if it turns out that the Canucks miss both years and give up a lottery pick in 2021?

i dont have an issue with the price tag.

My issue lies with the team that paid it. We were getting absolutely worked last year in many games and its entirely likely this is a lottery pick.

I think i understand where Benning is coming from and he just fast tracked one of his future picks for a developed player of need and at some point we have to support Horvat and Pettersson and go for it but im not convinced we are there yet and if we regress it could be devastating

 

[Lindgren]

Yes one of the next 2 years, it was a typo.

Let me ask you this. Do you think there was another team that offered a 2nd or 3rd. If yes, what advantage does Tampa have to making the trade with Van? We are not offering more than what other teams are offering.

Should JB just say my final offer is 2nd and 3rd? And wait For Tampa GM to call him back? Hopefully Pray that Tampa GM will pick us to make the trade.

I don't know what other teams offered, or whether there were any other teams making serious offers at all. But I know that JB should negotiate. It appears, from the report from Ian Mac, that he didn't do that. Tampa said what they wanted. Benning said yes.

Whether there's an advantage to making a deal with Vancouver when other teams offer the equivalent depends on where Tampa expects those other teams to finish in the standings. I'd take a second round pick from Vancouver over the same from many other teams.

I'll repeat my prediction: the first rounder going from Vancouver to Tampa will be a lottery pick.

I'll add to that a prediction that Benning will be fired no later than the end of the season, and one of the things the new GM will need to consider as he tries to get rid of the bad contracts the Canucks will be saddled with is including Miller in a trade, with very little coming back. (The thing that saves the trade from being far worse is that Miller is on a tradable contract.)

 

[Canucks1096]

I don't know what other teams offered, or whether there were any other teams making serious offers at all. But I know that JB should negotiate. It appears, from the report from Ian Mac, that he didn't do that. Tampa said what they wanted. Benning said yes.

Whether there's an advantage to making a deal with Vancouver when other teams offer the equivalent depends on where Tampa expects those other teams to finish in the standings. I'd take a second round pick from Vancouver over the same from many other teams.

I'll repeat my prediction: the first rounder going from Vancouver to Tampa will be a lottery pick.

I'll add to that a prediction that Benning will be fired no later than the end of the season, and one of the things the new GM will need to consider as he tries to get rid of the bad contracts the Canucks will be saddled with is including Miller in a trade, with very little coming back. (The thing that saves the trade from being far worse is that Miller is on a tradable contract.)

There had to be some negotiating, the condition 1st round pick it favors the Canucks more than Tampa. One playoffs out of two season It guarantees no lottery pick. So Tampa started to discuss this and gave more benefits to Van on the 1st. Is that right? If the answer is No. Then there were some negotiating.

This is first time JB has actually traded a 1st round picks. I am sure the last 5 years teams had called and asked for Canucks 1st round. JB said No to all of them. They were negotiating the conditions 1st round pick. I find it hard to believe that JB didnt offered a 2nd instead. Any trade doesn't take seconds. It takes days and lots of conversations. So if there was no negotiating? What did JB and the Tampa GM mainly talked about. The weather?

 

[Lindgren]

There had to be some negotiating, the condition 1st round pick it favors the Canucks more than Tampa. One playoffs out of two season It guarantees no lottery pick. So Tampa started to the discuss this and gave more benefits to Van on the 1st. Is that right? If the answer is No. Then there were some negotiating.

This is first time JB has actually traded a 1st round picks. I am sure thebl last 5 years teams had called and asked for Canucks 1st round. JB said No to all of them. They were negotiating the conditions 1st round pick. I find it hard to believe that JB didnt offered a 2nd instead. Any trade doesn't take seconds. It takes days and lots of conversations. So if there was no negotiating? What did JB and the Tampa GM mainly talked about. The weather?

I find your post a bit difficult to follow. But in any case my response is probably going to be the same. The Ian Mac story says that Benning said yes to Tampa's first proposal. Why would he lie? He's generally regarded as being close to management and taking positions that make management look good.

Most of the media analysis I've read supports my position: Tampa was in a difficult spot because of the salary cap. Vancouver failed to take advantage of that position.

I appreciate your making a prediction and stating frankly what would lead you to change your mind about the trade. Most of the time, posters who defend Benning moves won't do that. We can revisit near the end of the season and see who was right about where the Canucks will finish.

 

[me2]

There had to be some negotiating, the condition 1st round pick it favors the Canucks more than Tampa. One playoffs out of two season It guarantees no lottery pick. So Tampa started to discuss this and gave more benefits to Van on the 1st. Is that right? If the answer is No. Then there were some negotiating.

This is first time JB has actually traded a 1st round picks. I am sure the last 5 years teams had called and asked for Canucks 1st round. JB said No to all of them. They were negotiating the conditions 1st round pick. I find it hard to believe that JB didnt offered a 2nd instead. Any trade doesn't take seconds. It takes days and lots of conversations. So if there was no negotiating? What did JB and the Tampa GM mainly talked about. The weather?

It doesn't favour the canucks at all. This is a genius move by Tampa, they took all the control away from Vancouver. A pick at 16 or 17 is a great pick for Tampa, we have no choice but to give it to them now. If things go badly next year and we are looking like having an abysmal 20-21 season, we might be better off giving Tampa a pick in the 12-15 range as damage control. Vancouver should have negotiated for their choice of years at the very least, being locked in definitely favours Tampa. Considering the Canucks had the upperhand Benning got owned.

 

[Cancuks]

What if Benning is fired after this season and the new GM decides to blow up the roster next offseason? Very realistic scenario in which the Canucks would miss the playoffs and get a top 3 pick and then it's Ottawa all over again.

 

[me2]

This is first time JB has actually traded a 1st round picks. I am sure the last 5 years teams had called and asked for Canucks 1st round. JB said No to all of them. They were negotiating the conditions 1st round pick. I find it hard to believe that JB didnt offered a 2nd instead. Any trade doesn't take seconds. It takes days and lots of conversations. So if there was no negotiating? What did JB and the Tampa GM mainly talked about. The weather?

Benning took runs at Lucic and Subban both of which would have included firsts, in Subban's case the 5th overall. He's also passed up several offers of 1sts for his players and passed on several chances to gain a 1st taking salary dumps. He dumped 1st rounder McCann.

Benning has no great attachment to 1sts, his or acquiring others.

 

[Canucks1096]

I find your post a bit difficult to follow. But in any case my response is probably going to be the same. The Ian Mac story says that Benning said yes to Tampa's first proposal. Why would he lie? He's generally regarded as being close to management and taking positions that make management look good.

Most of the media analysis I've read supports my position: Tampa was in a difficult spot because of the salary cap. Vancouver failed to take advantage of that position.

I appreciate your making a prediction and stating frankly what would lead you to change your mind about the trade. Most of the time, posters who defend Benning moves won't do that. We can revisit near the end of the season and see who was right about where the Canucks will finish.

Send me the link that Ian Mac said JB said yes to the first offer?

 

[Lindgren]

I retract everything I said over the weekend.

Send me the link that Ian Mac said JB said yes to the first offer?

 

[Canadian Canuck]

The 1st rounder is going to be a pick from 15-31. It’s not going to be a lottery pick. We’re almost guaranteed to make the playoffs in one of the next two season. If we don’t then Benning is gone so it’s a win win.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

I know next to nothing about this player as he has played on two eastern teams I rarely see. However from watching his goal scoring reels, I am intrigued by the speed and his nose around the next. Watching all of his goals scored in 2017-2018, he seems like a player who's sneaky and gets filthy in close like a Patric Hornqvist or a prime David Booth. That is something the Canucks have lacked for a very very long time.

I also like the speed as he seems to have the ability to burst past defenders like a Michael Grabner.

The price was obviously Pejorative Slured but Miller looks like he could be a good fit here as he's bringing some things this offense severely lacks. No idea about his consistency or other aspects of his game but his goal scoring looks like it could be a good fit here.

 

[Mr Plow]

The 1st rounder is going to be a pick from 15-31

31? Lol. Yeah, we definitely have a better chance of winning the cup in the next two years than missing the playoffs for both of them, considering we've been arguably the worst team in the league over the last four years.

 

[me2]

31? Lol. Yeah, we definitely have a better chance of winning the cup in the next two years than missing the playoffs for both of them, considering we've been arguably the worst team in the league over the last four years.

This team was 26-31 in most advanced stats metrics. We have a long way to go.

 

[me2]

The price was obviously ******ed but Miller looks like he could be a good fit here as he's bringing some things this offense severely lacks. No idea about his consistency or other aspects of his game but his goal scoring looks like it could be a good fit here.

Miller was a guy I hoped we looked into getting, a great buy low candidate. I just wasn't expecting Jim to get that bent over........

 

[Canucks1096]

Ok, so it said JB didn't haggle for days or weeks. So that = no negotiating? How do we know if they didn't have a few hours conversation and Benning offered a 2nd and Tampa GM said No ? We don't, you are just reading this tweet and making your own story.

Not waiting for days or weeks doesnt mean JB didn't try to bring the down cost. That's assumption from your part.

 

[Canucks1096]

The 1st rounder is going to be a pick from 15-31. It’s not going to be a lottery pick. We’re almost guaranteed to make the playoffs in one of the next two season. If we don’t then Benning is gone so it’s a win win.

It's not going to be 31 for sure. 31 means we win the Stanley cup. However I Agree with making the playoffs one out of the next two season. Canucks were 9 points out. Having Miller and Hughes the full season will make some up the difference. Canucks are not done yet.