Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

[Canucks1096]

I rather Miller than Zucker

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Canucks were 9 points out.

Nine out including their little late season surge in garbage time that only served to move them down the draft order. It was, and it still very much is the rebuilding non playoff team of the past five years or so. A couple of tweaks here and there isn't going to fundamentally change that.

No matter how sick of losing Mr Aquilini is. They can be all in for playoffs all they want, it just makes them look like idiots.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

There had to be some negotiating, the condition 1st round pick it favors the Canucks more than Tampa. One playoffs out of two season It guarantees no lottery pick. So Tampa started to discuss this and gave more benefits to Van on the 1st. Is that right? If the answer is No. Then there were some negotiating.

This is first time JB has actually traded a 1st round picks. I am sure the last 5 years teams had called and asked for Canucks 1st round. JB said No to all of them. They were negotiating the conditions 1st round pick. I find it hard to believe that JB didnt offered a 2nd instead. Any trade doesn't take seconds. It takes days and lots of conversations. So if there was no negotiating? What did JB and the Tampa GM mainly talked about. The weather?

Its easily a lottery pick if Canucks suck in both years.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Nine out including their little late season surge in garbage time that only served to move them down the draft order. It was, and it still very much is the rebuilding non playoff team of the past five years or so. A couple of tweaks here and there isn't going to fundamentally change that.

No matter how sick of losing Mr Aquilini is. They can be all in for playoffs all they want, it just makes them look like idiots.

You also cant look at it in a vaccum as other teams are looking to improve as well.

So are Canucks trending up vs other teams they are competing for a playoff spot with?

 

[Canucks1096]

Nine out including their little late season surge in garbage time that only served to move them down the draft order. It was, and it still very much is the rebuilding non playoff team of the past five years or so. A couple of tweaks here and there isn't going to fundamentally change that.

No matter how sick of losing Mr Aquilini is. They can be all in for playoffs all they want, it just makes them look like idiots.

Last 10 games, 5 4 1
Previous 10 games 4 5 1

Not much surge considering the fact they were a game below 500.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Last 10 games, 5 4 1
Previous 10 games 4 5 1

Not much surge considering the fact they were a game below 500.

It felt like a surge to me / maybe the seasons are beginning to blend together for me

Or, conversely, perhaps that constituted a luke warm mini surge of sorts compared to what had preceded it. It sure felt like we were losing ground in the draft order to me.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

ou also cant look at it in a vaccum as other teams are looking to improve as well.

I would like not to but it sure seems like flat ground these past few years to me. My head hasn't exactly been spinning from all of the wild ups and downs.

 

[Spectrefire]

What if Benning is fired after this season and the new GM decides to blow up the roster next offseason? Very realistic scenario in which the Canucks would miss the playoffs and get a top 3 pick and then it's Ottawa all over again.

You think if Benning gets fired, ownership will hire a new GM who'll blow up the team and start another 5 years of losing and rebuilding?

That would never happen.

 

[Spectrefire]

Nine out including their little late season surge in garbage time that only served to move them down the draft order. It was, and it still very much is the rebuilding non playoff team of the past five years or so. A couple of tweaks here and there isn't going to fundamentally change that.

No matter how sick of losing Mr Aquilini is. They can be all in for playoffs all they want, it just makes them look like idiots.

This team can't rebuild forever. What are we? The Sabres? Coyotes? Oilers? At some point, you have to stop rebuilding and make a push.

If people here want the Canucks to still be a lottery team in 2021, then we might as well ship out Horvat now because we will have entirely wasted his prime on rebuilding and intentionally.

Hell, if people want this team to completely blow up after this season, then why even bother keeping Pettersson, Hughes, Boesser or any of them? They'd all be out of their prime if the team gets blown up and commits to a full 5-7 year rebuild.

Do people seriously want to see two more years of Pettersson's ELC wasted while trying to tank for high picks? Horvat'a 24 and we have a core group right there and reinforcements a year or two away. It's time to start winning and getting into the post-season.

I think depending on how the defense shakes out, this team can make the playoffs, and once there, all bets are off. We've seen how garbage the supposed top tier teams have been in the post-season.

I was always on team tank and getting high draft picks, but there's a limit, and my line was this season. 2018 had to be the last tank season and the team needs to make use of Horvat's prime and Petey/Hughes' ELCs.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

This team can't rebuild forever. What are we? The Sabres? Coyotes? Oilers? At some point, you have to stop rebuilding and make a push.

If people here want the Canucks to still be a lottery team in 2021, then we might as well ship out Horvat now because we will have entirely wasted his prime on rebuilding and intentionally.

Hell, if people want this team to completely blow up after this season, then why even bother keeping Pettersson, Hughes, Boesser or any of them? They'd all be out of their prime if the team gets blown up and commits to a full 5-7 year rebuild.

Do people seriously want to see two more years of Pettersson's ELC wasted while trying to tank for high picks? Horvat'a 24 and we have a core group right there and reinforcements a year or two away. It's time to start winning and getting into the post-season.

I think depending on how the defense shakes out, this team can make the playoffs, and once there, all bets are off. We've seen how garbage the supposed top tier teams have been in the post-season.

Nobody wants your strawman. What people want is Benning to make good decisions in the totality.

So while brining in Miller on its own might be a decent decision. Committing 7x7 to a 3rd pairing dman (Myers) would not. That would hamstring us along with the other overpayments at term. Not to mention the potential Luongo retirement.

What ever extra "winning" Miller might bring us can easily be offset by for example letting Hutton go and hoping Juolevi or whoever can step in and play regular minutes.

Etc etc etc

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

This team can't rebuild forever. What are we? The Sabres? Coyotes? Oilers? At some point, you have to stop rebuilding and make a push.

If people here want the Canucks to still be a lottery team in 2021, then we might as well ship out Horvat now because we will have entirely wasted his prime on rebuilding and intentionally.

Hell, if people want this team to completely blow up after this season, then why even bother keeping Pettersson, Hughes, Boesser or any of them? They'd all be out of their prime if the team gets blown up and commits to a full 5-7 year rebuild.

Do people seriously want to see two more years of Pettersson's ELC wasted while trying to tank for high picks? Horvat'a 24 and we have a core group right there and reinforcements a year or two away. It's time to start winning and getting into the post-season.

I think depending on how the defense shakes out, this team can make the playoffs, and once there, all bets are off. We've seen how garbage the supposed top tier teams have been in the post-season.

I was always on team tank and getting high draft picks, but there's a limit, and my line was this season. 2018 had to be the last tank season and the team needs to make use of Horvat's prime and Petey/Hughes' ELCs.

Believe it or not I'm not in it for the sheer thrill of losing games either and I very much doubt anyone else is. There is a time for making this kind of trade to ne sure, but coming off of a twenty-first place finish in the standing isn't that time. The fact is that adding a couple of the JT Millers and Tyler Myers of the world isn't going to propel this roster up the standings, these are not impact players.

I see that many people are tired of losing but this team will start winning when it's ready to regardless of what people want. Meanwhile, Benning has just made what could easily turn out to be the mother of all blunders in a tenure filled with them.

 

[Spectrefire]

Nobody wants your strawman. What people want is Benning to make good decisions in the totality.

So while brining in Miller on its own might be a decent decision. Committing 7x7 to a 3rd pairing dman (Myers) would not. That would hamstring us along with the other overpayments at term. Not to mention the potential Luongo retirement.

What ever extra "winning" Miller might bring us can easily be offset by for example letting Hutton go and hoping Juolevi or whoever can step in and play regular minutes.

Etc etc etc

While a Myers signing would be disastrous. It's all rumours so far and until it happen, I'm not going to lose sleep over media clickbait. If it DOES happen though, I'll be the first calling for Benning and Aquilini's heads for it.

The Luongo contract is a non-issue. The Canucks are not going to eat his cap regardless of when he retires. So far, the NHL has let both the Hawks and Tampa go free of their albatross cap monster. When the time comes, Luongo will conveniently LTIRetire.

 

[Hit the post]

Canucks were 9 points out.

The Canucks under Torts were 8 points out. It really isn’t much of an achievement for a GM that has the green light to spend to the cap limit and then some (eg., front load contracts).

 

[Canucks1096]

The Canucks under Torts were 8 points out. It really isn’t much of an achievement for a GM that has the green light to spend to the cap limit and then some (eg., front load contracts).

Last year Canucks didn't spend close to the cap.

I didn't say it was achievement, I am just giving facts. With Miller and Hughes the full season, they will close some of the cap.

 

[Hit the post]

Last year Canucks didn't spend close to the cap.

I didn’t say they spent up to the cap limit did I though? I said he got the green light from Aquaman to spend to the cap.

Miller is a good player but he’s a complementary player. You expect him and a rookie defenseman to move the needle? I hope your right and I’m wrong because I just don’t see it.

 

[Tables of Stats]

And how about the 2021 1st overall and a high 3rd round pick? Is that enough for Mackinnon? I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's a possibility. A possibility that is absolutely avoidable.

Also, I wouldn't simply assign the credit for Pettersson taking the next step to playing with JT Miller. Pettersson is gonna do what Pettersson is gonna do. Hopefully Miller can play up to his role.

That's a possibility for any team that trades a first, are you saying that no team should ever trade a first round pick?

 

[Tables of Stats]

What if Benning is fired after this season and the new GM decides to blow up the roster next offseason? Very realistic scenario in which the Canucks would miss the playoffs and get a top 3 pick and then it's Ottawa all over again.

Why would the new GM do that when he knows he doesn't have a first to work with that year? Far better to wait a year and then enact your blow it all up plan. All this is, of course, assuming that Aquaman will let the team be blown up.

 

[Hit the post]

That's a possibility for any team that trades a first, are you saying that no team should ever trade a first round pick?

Gillis should’ve done this more when the core was still in their prime (drafting was blech anyhow at the time). A team struggling to make the playoffs shouldn’t.

 

[Horse McHindu]

This team can't rebuild forever. What are we? The Sabres? Coyotes? Oilers? At some point, you have to stop rebuilding and make a push.

If people here want the Canucks to still be a lottery team in 2021, then we might as well ship out Horvat now because we will have entirely wasted his prime on rebuilding and intentionally.

Hell, if people want this team to completely blow up after this season, then why even bother keeping Pettersson, Hughes, Boesser or any of them? They'd all be out of their prime if the team gets blown up and commits to a full 5-7 year rebuild.

Do people seriously want to see two more years of Pettersson's ELC wasted while trying to tank for high picks? Horvat'a 24 and we have a core group right there and reinforcements a year or two away. It's time to start winning and getting into the post-season.

I think depending on how the defense shakes out, this team can make the playoffs, and once there, all bets are off. We've seen how garbage the supposed top tier teams have been in the post-season.

I was always on team tank and getting high draft picks, but there's a limit, and my line was this season. 2018 had to be the last tank season and the team needs to make use of Horvat's prime and Petey/Hughes' ELCs.

Easily one of the best posts in this thread.

 

[4Twenty]

This team can't rebuild forever. What are we? The Sabres? Coyotes? Oilers? At some point, you have to stop rebuilding and make a push.

If people here want the Canucks to still be a lottery team in 2021, then we might as well ship out Horvat now because we will have entirely wasted his prime on rebuilding and intentionally.

Hell, if people want this team to completely blow up after this season, then why even bother keeping Pettersson, Hughes, Boesser or any of them? They'd all be out of their prime if the team gets blown up and commits to a full 5-7 year rebuild.

Do people seriously want to see two more years of Pettersson's ELC wasted while trying to tank for high picks? Horvat'a 24 and we have a core group right there and reinforcements a year or two away. It's time to start winning and getting into the post-season.

I think depending on how the defense shakes out, this team can make the playoffs, and once there, all bets are off. We've seen how garbage the supposed top tier teams have been in the post-season.

I was always on team tank and getting high draft picks, but there's a limit, and my line was this season. 2018 had to be the last tank season and the team needs to make use of Horvat's prime and Petey/Hughes' ELCs.

Why must any attempt at improvement come at the expense of a first round pick for a team that's crested 83 points once in 6 seasons. I don't think anybody was inclined for the team not to do anything, that's you creating a false argument to argue with.

Who wants to completely blow it up after this season? People actually want them to turf the bad players and add more goood ones.....again, this doesn't have to come at the expense of 1st round draft picks.

 

[Hit the post]

I think depending on how the defense shakes out, this team can make the playoffs, and once there, all bets are off. We've seen how garbage the supposed top tier teams have been in the post-season.

Looks at the Canucks blueline even with Myers. Looks at the Blues blueline. Yup, I see similarities.

 

[4Twenty]

The pick is lottery protected for next season, and like I said, the odds of us missing the playoffs in 2021 is low, especially after this trade, and if we do miss the playoffs that year, then this team has MUCH bigger problems at hand.

The worst case scenario is obviously awful, but it's also such a remote possibility that I'm not too miffed about it yet. Also, you're having a laugh if you think 1st and 3rd is enough to get Mackinnon.

The best case scenario is Miller puts up 60 points and elevates Pettersson to the next step, and if Petey takes a next step, I think the team will be playoff bound. That's not a bad outcome for a late 1st round.

The problem with just banking on young players improvements being enough to carry a team is that it's not a given. It's a risky proposition.

Would you have thought in 2014 that a core of Mackinnon, Landeskog, Barrie, O'Reilly, Duchene, Erik Johnson would end up finishing with 69 points 3 years later? They didn't either.

 

[Canucks1096]

Easily one of the best posts in this thread.

agree

 

[Hit the post]

The problem with just banking on young players improvements being enough to carry a team is that it's not a given. It's a risky proposition.

Would you have thought in 2014 that a core of Mackinnon, Landeskog, Barrie, O'Reilly, Duchene, Erik Johnson would end up finishing with 69 points 3 years later? They didn't either.

Some will get better (my money is on EP). Some will regress. It happens with every team.

 

[Lindgren]

Ok, so it said JB didn't haggle for days or weeks. So that = no negotiating? How do we know if they didn't have a few hours conversation and Benning offered a 2nd and Tampa GM said No ? We don't, you are just reading this tweet and making your own story.

Not waiting for days or weeks doesnt mean JB didn't try to bring the down cost. That's assumption from your part.

It's not my story. It's Ian Mac's story. His tweet says that Benning accepted Tampa's first offer.