Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

[F A N]

What in Miller’s career suggested that he would be doing what he is doing now?

We are talking about the projection during the off-season, right?

Prior to last season, Miller was trending up.
56 point and 58 point seasons. His 10 goal in 19 game stretch when he first arrived in Tampa suggests that he could score. He’s 26 and in his prime. His underlying numbers have remained excellent. Looking at the roster it looks like he’s going to play with either Horvat or Petey (i.e good players). Every year he has spent time as his team’s 3rd line C and playing with less talented players yet he put up two straight 55+ points prior to last season. Could he improve on that if he’s not spending games playing 3rd line C? Not hard to project him doing so.

 

[Ernie]

He's been great but if that greatness leads the Canucks to a 9th or 10th place it's pretty much the worst case scenario. It sets the stage for an epic disaster next season with roster/cap issues and no 1st round pick.

The odds of a high pick going to Tampa is low. It would involve the Canucks missing the playoffs both seasons and then winning the draft lottery the 2nd season. The odds of that are somewhere in the 2-3% range.

By far the most likely outcome is that Tampa receives a pick in the 12-20 range. That's a very good price given his contract and one that the Canucks could easily recoup should they choose.

Of course, the Canucks didn't know that when they traded for him. The emergence of Hughes and the strong play of Miller has made this a playoff bubble team. Given that Benning has repeatedly overestimated the Canucks' abilities in previous seasons of course we should have a lot of skepticism about his judgement, but in this case he was right for a change.

 

[Canucks1096]

I loved the trade since day 1, I predicted 60 points, he is on pace for ppg season but probably will slow down. It will still be hard for him to hit 70 points but I won't be surprised if that happens.

 

[docbenton]

The trade is a win because they can already recoup more than what they gave up for him right now if they wanted to trade him. Does anyone doubt that based on his current asset value? End of story.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I'm gladly eating crow on this one. I thought the risk was far too high in that we could very well be a lottery team the next two years.
I knew Miller was a good player but I had no idea he was such a good player. He's a well rounded play maker, goal scorer and plays with an edge and goes to the dirty areas for his goals. He's had a major impact on the PP and he's had a ripple effect throughput the whole lineup finally allowing the team to ice three good lines as some of the players can be moved down the line up. Been our most consistent forward game in and game out no matter who he plays with.

 

[Hansen]

This is obviously not true. Here were the expectations:





















Just so this doesn't get sidetracked I'll remind you that I'm not claiming any of these expectations were necessarily unreasonable, although many probably were. I'm saying your present claim that the expectations for Miller were consistent with what he has achieved so far is obviously not true, and it's so far from being true that I'm having trouble understanding why you would even make it. If you still don't like the trade, fine -- that's a separate issue. Miller has clearly exceeded the expectations of nearly everyone.

He has 12 more points than Pearson (31 vs. 19 in 30 games each) while playing most minutes with one of the best young centermen in the game. I think glorified Tanner Pearson was a fair assessment at the time while still exceeding my own expectations

 

[DonnyNucker]

He has 12 more points than Pearson (31 vs. 19 in 30 games each) while playing most minutes with one of the best young centermen in the game. I think glorified Tanner Pearson was a fair assessment at the time while still exceeding my own expectations

Still can’t admit you were wrong, hilarious. Miller drives the line not Elias

 

[Hansen]

Still can’t admit you were wrong, hilarious. Miller drives the line not Elias

Oooof

 

[DonnyNucker]

Oooof

Do some research on their underlying numbers. The results are staggering.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Do some research on their underlying numbers. The results are staggering.

Yup. He's legitimately been our MVP thus far imo.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

to be totally honest, i completely and fully expected this to be a disaster. not because i thought miller was a bad player, or even because i knew anything about miller whatsoever. but after two literal handfuls of guys that were not just disappointing, not just bad, but worse than i ever could have expected—sbisa, vey, clendening, prust, sutter, eriksson, gudbranson, pouliot, gagner, and your pick of schaller, beagle, or juolevi—i just didn't think he could possibly be good. very pleasantly surprised.

 

[VanJack]

Wow!.....Miller has matched his goal total of last season after only 30 games, and is outscoring just about everybody on the Lightning at the moment.

Hard to fathom how a guy who was a bit of an offensive afterthought last year in Tampa, could flourish so much somewhere else. But his game isn't a mirage. He jump-starts every line he plays on. I wasn't happy about giving up a first rounder, but clearly the Canucks felt he'd break out in VanCity. Good to see.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The trade is a win because they can already recoup more than what they gave up for him right now if they wanted to trade him. Does anyone doubt that based on his current asset value? End of story.

I doubt it. I have no confidence in Benning being able to recoup a 1st by trading Miller.

People knew he would be a core4 forward. There wasn’t much competition, after all. But to say that they expected him to be the 2nd best player on the team? Perhaps 3rd best? No. There’s some revisionism going on there-and the parties making saïd claims are well known to this board.

2 months is not going to be enough for the more discerning fan. The compensation for this trade is potentially more than a year away. Patience. Be happy with it, but remember that the bill is not yet due.

 

[F A N]

People knew he would be a core4 forward. There wasn’t much competition, after all. But to say that they expected him to be the 2nd best player on the team? Perhaps 3rd best? No. There’s some revisionism going on there-and the parties making saïd claims are well known to this board.

2 months is not going to be enough for the more discerning fan. The compensation for this trade is potentially more than a year away. Patience. Be happy with it, but remember that the bill is not yet due.

Love the mental gymnastics.

Benning trades for JT Miller.

"This is a bad trade. I can judge this trade now!"

JT Miller is the best or 2nd best player on the team.

"Well they didn't expect him to be the best or 2nd best player on the team."

Benning trades for a player who disappoints.

"Benning's pro scouting is terrible!"

Benning trades for a player who exceeds expectations.

"Well they didn't expect him to be so good so this isn't an example of good pro scouting."

 

[canuckking1]

Still can’t admit you were wrong, hilarious. Miller drives the line not Elias

Hate to say it but this is true. EP and Brock have both look pretty invisible 5on5 they need to step it up even if they are producing.

Wow!.....Miller has matched his goal total of last season after only 30 games, and is outscoring just about everybody on the Lightning at the moment.

Hard to fathom how a guy who was a bit of an offensive afterthought last year in Tampa, could flourish so much somewhere else. But his game isn't a mirage. He jump-starts every line he plays on. I wasn't happy about giving up a first rounder, but clearly the Canucks felt he'd break out in VanCity. Good to see.

He was on the up track and did post 19 points in 18 games with Tampa when he was first traded there. I heard from the lightning fans that he was buried in the bottom 6 not long after. I'd have to assume with their depth that he made one of his usual turnover mistakes and that didn't sit well with the coach ...... and with his abundance of star players, he could bury someone like that further in the depth chart.

 

[Josepho]

(Pettersson is still top 40 in the entire NHL in 5v5 points)

 

[flying v 604]

I don’t think it should frustrate you. Understand the desperation here. The pro Benning crowd has been proven wrong for 5+ years. There will be haste in adopting questionable views in promoting his cause. It’s going to be automatic.

Aquilini himself did exactly the same when tweeting about the Miller trade. It’s worrisome how poor his logic is, and how it permeates the fan base.

No, this is expected and you should get used to it. Don’t let it get to you.

How has the pro-Benning crowd been proven wrong? The only move he made that has been terrible was the LE signing. The Guddy trade didn't work but he at least got Pearson and Mcann was an entitled dick who is a tweener that we don't need. Nobody could have predicted Sutter being hurt as much but when he has been healthy he was exactly as advertised and was off to a career year this season. Take a look at every GM, they all wish for do-overs on certain moves at least Benning seems to have learned from past mistakes and has had 2 very good summers. From where we were 5 years ago with the worst prospect pool in hockey and a ton of vets with NTCS, I prefer to look at all the good which outweighs the bad by a large margin. Guys like Sutter, Beagle, Pearson and Leivo are the last of the placeholders. Guys like Podz who we could afford to wait on because of said placeholders, plus Hogs, Madden etc are able to develop properly and will be added to a very good young core. Hell even Jake the one everyone craps on is again outproducing last years career highs and is still improving. Maybe it's time to enjoy what we have and be thankful were not leaf fans who if they think they have cap issues now wait till next season. They don't have are luxury of the 4th ranked prospect pool, even after having our top kids promoted 3 straight years.

 

[flying v 604]

He has 12 more points than Pearson (31 vs. 19 in 30 games each) while playing most minutes with one of the best young centermen in the game. I think glorified Tanner Pearson was a fair assessment at the time while still exceeding my own expectations

Based on that dumb logic, he will score around 30 more points than Pearson. Im a huge Petey fan but if you have watched any games JT is not getting points just because hes with Petey. The points they do score together are just as much due to the fact Miller has the IQ to play with Petey. Pearson is not suited for Peteys line.

 

[flying v 604]

to be totally honest, i completely and fully expected this to be a disaster. not because i thought miller was a bad player, or even because i knew anything about miller whatsoever. but after two literal handfuls of guys that were not just disappointing, not just bad, but worse than i ever could have expected—sbisa, vey, clendening, prust, sutter, eriksson, gudbranson, pouliot, gagner, and your pick of schaller, beagle, or juolevi—i just didn't think he could possibly be good. very pleasantly surprised.

Most of those guys you mentioned were brought in as placeholders. When Benning took over the roster had 1 player under 24 and Jenson was our top prospect. Guys were brought in to fill spots so that prospects could develop. It's easy to crap on the OJ pick but if you took 5 mins you would see he was considered the top D in the draft and MT had zero interest in being a nuck. His Dad has a huge hard on for this city going back 25 years. The funniest thing is those players are no longer here, almost like they were here for a purpose and were moved on from once the team started getting its own internal talent. Buddy was a flop but ill take Pearson over Mcann who is a self-entitled Dbag who never wanted to be here. Joulevi was great in Finland, had 14 points in 18 games as a rookie in Utica, and after missing a full year he is playing on the top pair and just had his best 2 games of the season.

 

[ddawg1950]

Great that he is producing points. But it is his attention to detail, the little things he does consistently in all three zones that I find most impressive.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

It really is incredible just how seamlessly he has fit in as one of the team’s top players. He brings some grit to the top unit and he protects the puck so well. I expected him to have a strong season riding shotgun with Pettersson, but his start thus far is better than what I had hoped.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Most of those guys you mentioned were brought in as placeholders. When Benning took over the roster had 1 player under 24 and Jenson was our top prospect. Guys were brought in to fill spots so that prospects could develop. It's easy to crap on the OJ pick but if you took 5 mins you would see he was considered the top D in the draft and MT had zero interest in being a nuck. His Dad has a huge hard on for this city going back 25 years. The funniest thing is those players are no longer here, almost like they were here for a purpose and were moved on from once the team started getting its own internal talent. Buddy was a flop but ill take Pearson over Mcann who is a self-entitled Dbag who never wanted to be here. Joulevi was great in Finland, had 14 points in 18 games as a rookie in Utica, and after missing a full year he is playing on the top pair and just had his best 2 games of the season.

i don’t want to derail so i won’t respond further to this in this thread but the team has more than $24 million committed next year to eriksson, sutter, beagle, roussel, ferland, baertschi, and spooner's buyout. good, bad, not here, or eriksson, none of those players play in the top six and we have $4 million committed beyond this season to each of six “placeholders.”

for reference, we currently pay less than that to petey, boeser, horvat, pearson, virtanen, and yes jtm combined.

good value, that jtm; i’m happy he’s here.

 

[Hockeyphysio]

Yea, I think Benning did well here unless we end up giving Tampa a top 5 pick

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I doubt it. I have no confidence in Benning being able to recoup a 1st by trading Miller.

People knew he would be a core4 forward. There wasn’t much competition, after all. But to say that they expected him to be the 2nd best player on the team? Perhaps 3rd best? No. There’s some revisionism going on there-and the parties making saïd claims are well known to this board.

2 months is not going to be enough for the more discerning fan. The compensation for this trade is potentially more than a year away. Patience. Be happy with it, but remember that the bill is not yet due.

Okay then, but it doesn’t matter because JT ain’t going anywhere

 

[Jack Burton]

It really is incredible just how seamlessly he has fit in as one of the team’s top players. He brings some grit to the top unit and he protects the puck so well. I expected him to have a strong season riding shotgun with Pettersson, but his start thus far is better than what I had hoped.

He has fit in quite nicely but I don't think anybody should be surprised. This team was absolutely desperate for a versatile, complete player like Miller in its top 6. Kinda like when Petterssons skill got here and what we're witnessing with Hughes injected into the lineup.
Desperately needed players to fill a roll and that were most likely to rack up the points.