Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

[DonnyNucker]

This is obviously not true. Here were the expectations:

Thank you for compiling this! These folks should be embarrassed. He is their best forward and I don’t think it’s close. Only forward that truly drives play

 

[Bleach Clean]

I don't know how you can judge "full value" two months into the deal. The argument was always that wee weren't a good enough team, even with Miller, to give up this pick. Let's see what happens with the pick.

There is a tendency to jump the gun with long-term trades. Look no further than the Baertschi-Andersson trade. Where, few cared about the 2nd rounder, citing percentages vs age gap methodology. Now? No one is rushing to defend that deal.

Time. Give it the time that it deserves.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Thank you for compiling this! These folks should be embarrassed. He is their best forward and I don’t think it’s close. Only forward that truly drives play

I'm not saying any of the people I quoted should necessarily be embarrassed or that their expectations were unreasonable. I'm saying that the claim that Miller has merely met expectations is clearly not true, to an extent that it's hard to see how any informed person such as Melvin could possibly advance it in good faith.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Thank you for compiling this! These folks should be embarrassed. He is their best forward and I don’t think it’s close. Only forward that truly drives play

Did you project that he would be their 2nd-3rd best player in the offseason? No? Well, what a surprise.

 

[M2Beezy]

Man I love this player

 

[DonnyNucker]

Did you project that he would be their 2nd-3rd best player in the offseason? No? Well, what a surprise.

True I did not. But I also didn’t condemn the trade at the time. I was neutral because my judgement isn’t clouded by benning hate.

 

[DonnyNucker]

I'm not saying any of the people I quoted should necessarily be embarrassed or that their expectations were unreasonable. I'm saying that the claim that Miller has merely met expectations is clearly not true, to an extent that it's hard to see how any informed person such as Melvin could possibly advance it in good faith.

For sure. I just find it amusing that’s all. Go canucks go !

 

[bandwagonesque]

lol, y2kcanucks with another ridiculously dumb hot take. I don't know how someone can know less about hockey and sound dumber than Steve Simmons, but apparently buddy pulls it off effortlessly.

Again, whether or not these predictions were justified isn't what I'm talking about. Being wrong is fine. Pretending these predictions never took place isn't, and doing so in literally the exact thread that contains them is just confusing.

 

[Melvin]

There is a tendency to jump the gun with long-term trades. Look no further than the Baertschi-Andersson trade. Where, few cared about the 2nd rounder, citing percentages vs age gap methodology. Now? No one is rushing to defend that deal.

Time. Give it the time that it deserves.

It's incredibly frustrating.

The "wait and see" brigade suddenly wants to declare this trade - a trade where they gave up a first round pick - a clear victory after about 5 minutes; suddenly we don't have to see what happens with the pick. Give me a break.

It's not some shock that Miller is a good player. That was never the issue with the trade. Good grief, people.

and I say this - by the way - as someone who was far more on board with the trade at the time than most (because I felt Miller was being undervalued and the pick overvalued.) So this isn't me trying to buy myself some kind of excuse. It's just tiresome for people to constantly try to jump the gun on this stuff.

 

[Bleach Clean]

True I did not. But I also didn’t condemn the trade at the time. I was neutral because my judgement isn’t clouded by benning hate.

The team just missed the playoffs for 4 straight seasons. Had the worst combined record over that span. You think trading a future 1st rounder based upon that record equates to irrational Benning hate? Think again Donny.

Clearly, there’s something off in scorching future earth when looking at that landscape.

There was and is far more to suggest that this was/is a bad deal based upon method than there is to support it, IMO. That remains regardless of what JT does over 2 months of play.

And last, projecting the player isn’t condemning the player. The trade and player projection are two different things. Let’s not forget this.

 

[bandwagonesque]

It's incredibly frustrating.

The "wait and see" brigade suddenly wants to declare this trade - a trade where they gave up a first round pick - a clear victory after about 5 minutes; suddenly we don't have to see what happens with the pick. Give me a break.

It's not some shock that Miller is a good player. That was never the issue with the trade. Good grief, people.

That isn't what I did. I wasn't talking about whether anyone's take on the trade was reasonable at the time, or about what expectations for the future currently seem reasonable. I was talking about a claim you made a few days ago that Miller has performed exactly as expected, which you are presumably aware is not true. You're attempting to pivot and avoid discussing this by latching on to a tangent other posters have created from it -- namely, whether the trade itself was good in itself, which has nothing to do with my original comment.

 

[M2Beezy]

True I did not. But I also didn’t condemn the trade at the time. I was neutral because my judgement isn’t clouded by benning hate.

Bennings a pretty awful GM Donny, cmon look at his track record. Theres pretty good reason imo to people to being skeptical when a trade happens. And if the trade works out then great, people will be happy but not really sure we can go back and point fingers at people who predicted this specific trade to be another loss by a GM with a LONG list of horrible decisions

 

[Bleach Clean]

It's incredibly frustrating.

The "wait and see" brigade suddenly wants to declare this trade - a trade where they gave up a first round pick - a clear victory after about 5 minutes; suddenly we don't have to see what happens with the pick. Give me a break.

It's not some shock that Miller is a good player. That was never the issue with the trade. Good grief, people.

I don’t think it should frustrate you. Understand the desperation here. The pro Benning crowd has been proven wrong for 5+ years. There will be haste in adopting questionable views in promoting his cause. It’s going to be automatic.

Aquilini himself did exactly the same when tweeting about the Miller trade. It’s worrisome how poor his logic is, and how it permeates the fan base.

No, this is expected and you should get used to it. Don’t let it get to you.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

f*** that first round pick

 

[DonnyNucker]

The team just missed the playoffs for 4 straight seasons. Had the worst combined record over that span. You think trading a future 1st rounder based upon that record equates to irrational Benning hate? Think again Donny.

Clearly, there’s something off in scorching future earth when looking at that landscape.

There was and is far more to suggest that this was/is a bad deal based upon method than there is to support it, IMO. That remains regardless of what JT does over 2 months of play.

And last, projecting the player isn’t condemning the player. The trade and player projection are two different things. Let’s not forget this.

There is a legit argument that the timing was wrong. Perhaps it’s a year early. But people were wrong on Miller and they clearly haven’t followed his career. I hadn’t as well which is why I was relatively quiet regarding the trade. He is worth a lot more than a first round pick.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Bennings a pretty awful GM Donny, cmon look at his track record. Theres pretty good reason imo to people to being skeptical when a trade happens. And if the trade works out then great, people will be happy but not really sure we can go back and point fingers at people who predicted this specific trade to be another loss by a GM with a LONG list of horrible decisions

That’s fair. I try and judge every transaction individually and I don’t factor in his past work. But I guess I understand when people do

 

[F A N]

There is a tendency to jump the gun with long-term trades. Look no further than the Baertschi-Andersson trade. Where, few cared about the 2nd rounder, citing percentages vs age gap methodology. Now? No one is rushing to defend that deal.

Time. Give it the time that it deserves.

I see you argue process when it fits your argument and wait and see when it doesn’t.

 

[Bleach Clean]

**** that first round pick

Brian Burke during the Kessel trade.

There is a legit argument that the timing was wrong. Perhaps it’s a year early. But people were wrong on Miller and they clearly haven’t followed his career. I hadn’t as well which is why I was relatively quiet regarding the trade. He is worth a lot more than a first round pick.

What in Miller’s career suggested that he would be doing what he is doing now?

We are talking about the projection during the off-season, right?

 

[bandwagonesque]

I don’t think it should frustrate you. Understand the desperation here. The pro Benning crowd has been proven wrong for 5+ years. There will be haste in adopting questionable views in promoting his cause. It’s going to be automatic.

Aquilini himself did exactly the same when tweeting about the Miller trade. It’s worrisome how poor his logic is, and how it permeates the fan base.

No, this is expected and you should get used to it. Don’t let it get to you.

I didn't reply to Melvin and revive this thread, which had been dormant for days, to take issue with his take on the trade itself and no one else here was questioning it either. I did not say any previous take on the trade by the posters I quoted was actually unreasonable. I was expressly contradicting his claim about the reactions to the trade and the expectations for Miller that people expressed at the time, i.e., that Miller had performed exactly as expected. You know this, and you know the claim he made is not true.

 

[M2Beezy]

That’s fair. I try and judge every transaction individually and I don’t factor in his past work. But I guess I understand when people do

I think we do that with lots of things in life, usually how we form opinions on people, politicians, teams, countries, religion, etc. But yes, i was probably wrong with the Miller trade too tho I havent searched to see what i said at the time.

 

[DonnyNucker]

I think we do that with lots of things in life, usually how we form opinions on people, politicians, teams, countries, religion, etc. But yes, i was probably wrong with the Miller trade too tho I havent searched to see what i said at the time.

I don’t want to argue with you. I still remember when you KOed the Portuguese math teacher and I don’t want to be a victim

 

[M2Beezy]

I don’t want to argue with you. I still remember when you KOed the Portuguese math teacher and I don’t want to be a victim

Im not arguing friend, I usually agree with you anyways

 

[DonnyNucker]

Im not arguing friend, I usually agree with you anyways

Jokes bud. Cheers!

 

[absolute garbage]

He's been great but if that greatness leads the Canucks to a 9th or 10th place it's pretty much the worst case scenario. It sets the stage for an epic disaster next season with roster/cap issues and no 1st round pick.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

He's been great but if that greatness leads the Canucks to a 9th or 10th place it's pretty much the worst case scenario. It sets the stage for an epic disaster next season with roster/cap issues and no 1st round pick.

And that is not Miller's problem, in fact, Miller will never be a part of the problem