Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

[bandwagonesque]

He has 12 more points than Pearson (31 vs. 19 in 30 games each) while playing most minutes with one of the best young centermen in the game. I think glorified Tanner Pearson was a fair assessment at the time while still exceeding my own expectations

That may very well be true. I'm not disputing anyone's assessment at the time, I'm saying @Melvin's claim as of Thursday that Miller is performing exactly as expected is false, which I assume from your response that you agree with.

 

[rypper]

Most of those guys you mentioned were brought in as placeholders. When Benning took over the roster had 1 player under 24 and Jenson was our top prospect. Guys were brought in to fill spots so that prospects could develop. It's easy to crap on the OJ pick but if you took 5 mins you would see he was considered the top D in the draft and MT had zero interest in being a nuck. His Dad has a huge hard on for this city going back 25 years. The funniest thing is those players are no longer here, almost like they were here for a purpose and were moved on from once the team started getting its own internal talent. Buddy was a flop but ill take Pearson over Mcann who is a self-entitled Dbag who never wanted to be here. Joulevi was great in Finland, had 14 points in 18 games as a rookie in Utica, and after missing a full year he is playing on the top pair and just had his best 2 games of the season.

Conjecture and hearsay.

 

[PecaFan]

Miller having a good start to the season doesn't change the fact that the trade was, and still is a bad one. It had and still has a chance to massively backfire should the lottery go poorly, and even if that doesn't happen Tampa is still going to get a good pick.

At best, Miller has turned the team into a mediocre team instead of a bad one. Which isn't a great situation, mediocre is the worst thing a team can be. Never good enough to win anything, never bad enough to get the superstars needed to become a great team.

The Miller trade is a classic short term 'save my job' move. The best thing long term for this team was keeping that draft pick, and the low salary/years of service that ensues along with the chance of getting a superstar.

 

[bandwagonesque]

But to say that they expected him to be the 2nd best player on the team? Perhaps 3rd best? No. There’s some revisionism going on there-and the parties making saïd claims are well known to this board.

No one said this.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Miller having a good start to the season doesn't change the fact that the trade was, and still is a bad one. It had and still has a chance to massively backfire should the lottery go poorly, and even if that doesn't happen Tampa is still going to get a good pick.

At best, Miller has turned the team into a mediocre team instead of a bad one. Which isn't a great situation, mediocre is the worst thing a team can be. Never good enough to win anything, never bad enough to get the superstars needed to become a great team.

The Miller trade is a classic short term 'save my job' move. The best thing long term for this team was keeping that draft pick, and the low salary/years of service that ensues along with the chance of getting a superstar.

We have 2 high end superstars already, how many more do we need?

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Miller having a good start to the season doesn't change the fact that the trade was, and still is a bad one. It had and still has a chance to massively backfire should the lottery go poorly, and even if that doesn't happen Tampa is still going to get a good pick.

At best, Miller has turned the team into a mediocre team instead of a bad one. Which isn't a great situation, mediocre is the worst thing a team can be. Never good enough to win anything, never bad enough to get the superstars needed to become a great team.

The Miller trade is a classic short term 'save my job' move. The best thing long term for this team was keeping that draft pick, and the low salary/years of service that ensues along with the chance of getting a superstar.

so wrong at so many fronts
If the 2020 pick is a top 15 pick then it's ours anyway, 2021? sounds like a 2 years from now problem, if you cant finish outside of top 10 by 2021 you might as well trade Miller, Bo and even Brock and start everything over.

The fact is JT Miller is 26, signed til 2023 at a sweet cap hit, and he's a very good player, which means he's likely going to stay here "long term"

On your second statement, mediocre is a part of process, almost every bad team had to went through before it became good. This team already has two potential super stars in EP and Hughes, two young promising players in Bo and Brock and Markstrom in his prime + Demko for the future. The core is set, now the next step is to fill out the rest of the spots with "non high draft picks". Miller is actually a perfect acquisition because if his age and contract.

Guys, it's okay to prasie this trade. Praising it does not bean you are a Benningbro like some idiots like to claim

 

[Melvin]

Miller having a good start to the season doesn't change the fact that the trade was, and still is a bad one. It had and still has a chance to massively backfire should the lottery go poorly, and even if that doesn't happen Tampa is still going to get a good pick.

At best, Miller has turned the team into a mediocre team instead of a bad one. Which isn't a great situation, mediocre is the worst thing a team can be. Never good enough to win anything, never bad enough to get the superstars needed to become a great team.

The Miller trade is a classic short term 'save my job' move. The best thing long term for this team was keeping that draft pick, and the low salary/years of service that ensues along with the chance of getting a superstar.

My only counter-argument to this is that Miller came locked in for four seasons, so it's not that short term. If the Canucks can be competitive in years 3 and 4 of his deal, it could still work out somewhat favorably.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

My only counter-argument to this is that Miller came locked in for four seasons, so it's not that short term. If the Canucks can be competitive in years 3 and 4 of his deal, it could still work out somewhat favorably.

The only way the Canucks lose this trade is missing the playoffs in 2020-21 and somehow wins the lottery, which i dont see it happen.

 

[rypper]

The only way the Canucks lose this trade is missing the playoffs in 2020-21 and somehow wins the lottery, which i dont see it happen.

With Canucks historical luck hanging over our heads, you'll find people hesitant to completely write that off, no matter how slim of a chance it has of happening.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Miller having a good start to the season doesn't change the fact that the trade was, and still is a bad one. It had and still has a chance to massively backfire should the lottery go poorly, and even if that doesn't happen Tampa is still going to get a good pick.

At best, Miller has turned the team into a mediocre team instead of a bad one. Which isn't a great situation, mediocre is the worst thing a team can be. Never good enough to win anything, never bad enough to get the superstars needed to become a great team.

The Miller trade is a classic short term 'save my job' move. The best thing long term for this team was keeping that draft pick, and the low salary/years of service that ensues along with the chance of getting a superstar.

What a ridiculous take....at a certain point ,as an organization, you have to demonstrate that you are making steps to be competitive...If we had an older core,I would see your point, but we don't..we have a young core on the ascendant.

Benning obviously accelerated the rebuild with moves like the Miller trade (and I was a poster that was gutted by giving up a 1st),and it has really galvanized our top 6.

I can only imagine what players like Bo Horvat (at this stage of his career) would be thinking ,if this season was Detroit Red Wings bad (with the organization sitting in the weeds waiting for high draft picks)..Get me the hell out of here!

 

[VanJack]

From Benning's perspective,the J.T. Miller trade was a bit of a no-brainer. If the Canucks fall short of the playoffs this season, they automatically hold on to their 2020 lottery pick, and the first rounder reverts to the 2021.

Of course that pick wouldn't be lottery-protected, but it the Canucks were to miss the playoffs again in 2020-21 then Jimbo is as good as gone anyway.

 

[sting101]

The only way this is a bad trade is if it becomes a lottery pick. How people can conclude it was a bad trade without knowing what we gave up yet is??

Would say it was an unecessary risk with the potential to be disastrous. And this is why i would not have done it without lottery protection. Doesn't make it bad, just extremely risky and bold. Benning definitely put his job on the line with this one. If we finish 8th OA this year and its a 23rd pick plus a 3rd we laugh all the way to the bank. Might recoup that in 3yrs if they dont re sign added to his current value

On the Miller front you have to give management credit here for target. Best player on the team so far and not only does he have a better shot than i remember he is really good in tight around the net with rebounds and deflections.

Hell of a player....have to wait and see as far as the trade.

Im just gonna enjoy it for now

 

[Carl Carlson]

I'm not saying any of the people I quoted should necessarily be embarrassed or that their expectations were unreasonable. I'm saying that the claim that Miller has merely met expectations is clearly not true, to an extent that it's hard to see how any informed person such as Melvin could possibly advance it in good faith.

Oh man I'm so embarrassed. LOL We are at the beginning of Dec. He looks like he's fitting in well with Petterson. I think a lot of decent players in the league would have good seasons with Petterson. He's on pace for 85 pts if he keeps it up. I don't think he will and I'd still rather have the first.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Oh man I'm so embarrassed. LOL We are at the beginning of Dec. He looks like he's fitting in well with Petterson. I think a lot of decent players in the league would have good seasons with Petterson. He's on pace for 85 pts if he keeps it up. I don't think he will and I'd still rather have the first.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding what you're reading. I never at any point said you or anyone else should be embarrassed or even that any of the takes I quoted weren't reasonable. I was pointing out that one poster's assertion that Miller is performing exactly as expected isn't true. Do you understand this?

 

[MS]

You're fundamentally misunderstanding what you're reading. I never at any point said you or anyone else should be embarrassed or even that any of the takes I quoted weren't reasonable. I was pointing out that one poster's assertion that Miller is performing exactly as expected isn't true. Do you understand this?

I wouldn’t say he’s performed ‘exactly’ as expected but the difference isn’t as big as is being claimed.

Personally I thought he’d quickly end up with Pettersson rather than Ferland (yup) and score 55-ish points on the back of 40 ES points and 15 or so PP points and be a be a good puck retrieval two-way winger. And that’s mostly been true. What I didn’t expect was a PP dynamo who is on pace for like 35 points with the man advantage, which is insane.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

In less than 6 months Banning’ s pro scouts were twice able to identify miscast players on other teams who weren’t getting the opportunities to show their true potential, bring them here and add key players. This time it was JT Miller who looks every bit like a core player for the next 5+ years as a FIRST LINE SCORER, PLAYMAKER, AND TOP DEFENSIVE PLAYER. This is on a team with some elite talent and JT Miller looks right at home playing at their level. If you think it was at all likely we get the same impact from the 1st round pick we gave up you’re simply ignorant of the facts. We can in fact call this trade a win at this point given those odds. JT Miller was the homerun that will send this team over the hump and into the playoffs if he keeps playing like this.

 

[Bleach Clean]

How has the pro-Benning crowd been proven wrong? The only move he made that has been terrible was the LE signing. .

No offense, but I stopped reading after the LE sentence. If you think that the Gudbranson move wasn't terrible, or that Benning has squandered cap space and assets at nearly every turn, we are not dealing in honest dialogue. You are welcome to continue believing what you wish.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Okay then, but it doesn’t matter because JT ain’t going anywhere

Great, but that's not the premise of the comment I was replying to.

The only way the Canucks lose this trade is missing the playoffs in 2020-21 and somehow wins the lottery, which i dont see it happen.

So you thought it was a 'win' when the team traded their future 1st rounder while having missed the playoffs for 4 straight years (having the worst record over that span)? If so, what is a poor trade process to you? What is your standard?

It's process and result, and the process was terrible, IMO. Do you disagree? And why?

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Great, but that's not the premise of the comment I was replying to.





So you thought it was a 'win' when the team traded their future 1st rounder while having missed the playoffs for 4 straight years (having the worst record over that span)? If so, what is poor process in trades for you? What is your standard?

It's process and result, and the process was terrible, IMO. Do you disagree? And why?

My first reaction was "this is a huge risk for a team that hasn't make the playoffs in 4 years"

But after some self processing, I ended up accepting this deal because of what it represents. At least the management is willing to bet their job on not missing the playoffs for 6 straight seasons, I can at least appreciate the determination. Plus like I said before, looking at Miller's track record and how he was deployed last season in Tampa, there was very little chance that he flopped here

Again, a non top 10 pick <<<<<<<<<< JT Miller and his sweet ass contract

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

From Benning's perspective,the J.T. Miller trade was a bit of a no-brainer. If the Canucks fall short of the playoffs this season, they automatically hold on to their 2020 lottery pick, and the first rounder reverts to the 2021.

Of course that pick wouldn't be lottery-protected, but it the Canucks were to miss the playoffs again in 2020-21 then Jimbo is as good as gone anyway.

Exactly, which is why I was on board with this trade since the first day. I appreciate that Jimbo is willing to put his job on the line

 

[bandwagonesque]

Great, but that's not the premise of the comment I was replying to.





So you thought it was a 'win' when the team traded their future 1st rounder while having missed the playoffs for 4 straight years (having the worst record over that span)? If so, what is poor process in trades for you? What is your standard?

It's process and result, and the process was terrible, IMO. Do you disagree? And why?

Benning took a risk, presumably based on the belief that it would probably work. So far he's correct and it's working, and saying so does not constitute a defence of his performance in general. You want to talk about the process because the result isn't the one you expected, want, or can find a means to criticize.

 

[F A N]

My first reaction was "this is a huge risk for a team that hasn't make the playoffs in 4 years"

But after some self processing, I ended up accepting this deal because of what it represents. At least the management is willing to bet their job on not missing the playoffs for 6 straight seasons, I can at least appreciate the determination. Plus like I said before, looking at Miller's track record and how he was deployed last season in Tampa, there was very little chance that he flopped here

Again, a non top 10 pick <<<<<<<<<< JT Miller and his sweet ass contract

If Nonis never traded away any draft picks he would be hailed by some here as one of the best GMs in Canucks history.

Some posters think that teams can simply go from bottom dwellers to Stanley Cup contenders. That can happen if you spend years being bottom dwellers and then draft two superstars, which actually could be the Canucks if Petey and Hughes end up being super star calibre players.

How many years did Kane and Toews miss the playoffs before they got their first taste of playoff hockey? One. Malkin and Crosby (0 and 1 respectively). Ovechkin? 2. Doughty? 1.

I have said this before. If our current core is good enough to lead us to the Cup, they aren't spending years missing the playoffs. Timing is important when you're making the ultimate push, but when you have an opportunity to add another core player to your group that helps your team now and in the future you should seriously consider making it. With the JT Miller trade they would either make the playoffs or add another lottery pick to their system, both of which does not hurt the Canucks.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Great, but that's not the premise of the comment I was replying to.





So you thought it was a 'win' when the team traded their future 1st rounder while having missed the playoffs for 4 straight years (having the worst record over that span)? If so, what is poor process in trades for you? What is your standard?

It's process and result, and the process was terrible, IMO. Do you disagree? And why?

Since you like to focus on the "process" so much rather than the "result" which is the more important part.
How about those New Jersey Devils? Adding Gusev, Subban and even Simmon in the offseason for relatively cheap price, the "process" was praised by the majority people, unfortunately the "result" now is a complete failure.

Gusev is underwhelming, Simmon is replaceable and Subban is just a big dud (with an ugly contract too), but since the "process" was very logical and low risk, I assume you would still rather added Gusev/Subban than Miller in the summer?

I brought up the Devils up because I remember a lot of people were complaining about that they would rather traded a 2nd+3rd for a magic bean like Gusev than a proven nhl scorer in Miller

 

[sandwichbird2023]

We have 2 high end superstars already, how many more do we need?

Edmonton has 2 even higher end superstars for years. Do you think they had enough already to be a cup contender?

I think Miller the player has exceeded my expectations, so good job by Benneing here. Its still early but I was expecting a complimentary top 6 player, instead hes been a line-driver. Definitely a rare hit by the pro scout, I have no problem admitting this.
But Miller the trade is still to be determined. If it ended up costing us a top 5 overall pick in 2021, I'll have to say that the trade still ended up being a bad move for the franchise. If the pick ended up being 15 overall or beyond then I think its a good move.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Edmonton has 2 even higher end superstars for years. Do you think they had enough already to be a cup contender?

I think Miller the player has exceeded my expectations, so good job by Benneing here. Its still early but I was expecting a complimentary top 6 player, instead hes been a line-driver. Definitely a rare hit by the pro scout, I have no problem admitting this.
But Miller the trade is still to be determined. If it ended up costing us a top 5 overall pick in 2021, I'll have to say that the trade still ended up being a bad move for the franchise. If the pick ended up being 15 overall or beyond then I think its a good move.

Superstars don’t make cup contenders, quality depth does. How many superstars did STL have last year?