Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

[member 290103]

I heard Pierre Mcguire proclaimed that JT Miller will be a bottom 6 player on the Canucks by year end. This bodes well for Vancouver. McGuire is always wrong.

 

[Canucks1096]

Johansson and Miller actually had very similar production the two years before being traded and were the same age. I'd say their value is very close. Miller is worth a high first or, a 2nd + prospect and maybe another pick. He is not worth What could likely be a top 10 pick.

If we look at it with more context, I see Miller as a much better player. Miller put up top 6 numbers with players like Grabner and Hayes as his regular linemates. This season half of the season he was on the third line. This proves that Miller can get points without elite talent.

Johansson 2 seasons before the trade played almost entire season with Kuznetzov and Backstrom. He needs elite linemates to produce. Now without those two his productions decline. Also one of Miller season he only had 14 mins. Miller also had 4 years left on his contract vs 2.

 

[CanaFan]

I heard Pierre Mcguire proclaimed that JT Miller will be a bottom 6 player on the Canucks by year end. This bodes well for Vancouver. McGuire is always wrong.

I don’t think it’s physically possible for Miller to be a bottom 6 LW on this Canucks team. What 2 wingers are going to outplay him? 55 games of Baertschi? 27 pt Goldobin? 24 pt Leivo?

Miller could put up 15 + 15 and he’d still be our best or 2nd best LW by a mile.

 

[VanJack]

This trade has all the earmarks of the Sutter deal to me. A guy who Jimbo proclaimed to be a legitimate 'second line center'....and of course he never was. But while that trade cost the Canucks Bonino and draft picks, it least it wasn't a first rounder.

So despite scoring only 13 goals last season (exactly one more than Markus Granlund), Jimbo has anointed J.T. Miller a legitimate top-six forward. Who can blame the Canuck faithful for being uneasy?

 

[Canucks1096]

This trade has all the earmarks of the Sutter deal to me. A guy who Jimbo proclaimed to be a legitimate 'second line center'....and of course he never was. But while that trade cost the Canucks Bonino and draft picks, it least it wasn't a first rounder.

So despite scoring only 13 goals last season (exactly one more than Markus Granlund), Jimbo has anointed J.T. Miller a legitimate top-six forward. Who can blame the Canuck faithful for being uneasy?

The main difference Miller has produce legit top 6 winger numbers before. Sutter never ever put up top 6 numbers. 2017 season, Miller had 56 points and that was 28th in winger scoring. 2018 season, Miller had 58 points and that was 41st in winger scoring. You can make an argument those are 1st line winger numbers. This season 47 points and half of the season on the third line and only playing 14 minutes.

Btw JB called Sutter foundation player
We can read between the lines on what that means. However I don't think he ever said Sutter is a legit second line center.

I don't see any similarities at all,

 

[VanJack]

Posters need to read the synopsis of the Lightning beat writer on Hockey.Buzz.com.....basically saying that the Canucks were totally fleeced, based on Miller's performance with the Bolts last season.....in and out of John Cooper's dog-house and dropped down to the third line.

Bolts entered this off-season in Cap Hell....and were absolutely stunned to able to unload Miller's $5.5m cap hit and acquire first and third rounders in the bargain. Not a very reassuring read.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

What do we have in JT Miller? It looks like a debate that will be going on for the next 4 years on the transaction cost. #GoodTimes

Should be no debate.

Cap dump trades that happened the last few years

Burakovsky for 2nd and 3rd
Johanssen for 2nd and 3rd
Shaw for two 2nd

Miller is better than all 3 of them. Someone of you think we should of got the trade done with a 2nd and 3rd.

Like I said many many many times, teams that are up against the cap or doesn't make their player have lowet trade value. If you have valuable pieces, you still need to compete with other teams.

Subban
DeHaan

 

[just22]

Posters need to read the synopsis of the Lightning beat writer on Hockey.Buzz.com.....basically saying that the Canucks were totally fleeced, based on Miller's performance with the Bolts last season.....in and out of John Cooper's dog-house and dropped down to the third line.

Bolts entered this off-season in Cap Hell....and were absolutely stunned to able to unload Miller's $5.5m cap hit and acquire first and third rounders in the bargain. Not a very reassuring read.

Wait - there are people who read hockeybuzz?

 

[DonnyNucker]

This trade has all the earmarks of the Sutter deal to me. A guy who Jimbo proclaimed to be a legitimate 'second line center'....and of course he never was. But while that trade cost the Canucks Bonino and draft picks, it least it wasn't a first rounder.

So despite scoring only 13 goals last season (exactly one more than Markus Granlund), Jimbo has anointed J.T. Miller a legitimate top-six forward. Who can blame the Canuck faithful for being uneasy?

This is a really lazy and misinformed post.

 

[Canucks1096]

Should be no debate.


Subban
DeHaan

Carolina wasn't in cap trouble. They didn't need to clear cap unless there is an internal cap that I don't know about. The return wasn't bad. Dehaan is like 4/5 D and they got a potential 4/5 D in Forslin back.

Subban return was low because NJ was only team that was willing to eat all 9 M contract. Also Nash they didn't need to get rid of Subban. They could of kept him and not get rid of any other core player. They want to get rid of Subban contract because they want to sign Duchene.

Wash
Tampa
Chicago

All 3 actually had to get rid contracts to stay below the cap.

Carolina and Nashville didn't

Big difference

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Carolina wasn't in cap trouble. They didn't need to clear cap unless there is an internal cap that I don't know about. The return wasn't bad. Dehaan is like 4/5 D and they got a potential 4/5 D in Forslin back.

Ah. Ok we just value DeHaan and Forsling very very differently. I see DeHaan as a legit top4 D and Forsling as a 6th/7th.

DeHaan would

Subban return was low because NJ was only team that was willing to eat all 9 M contract. Also Nash they didn't need to get rid of Subban. They could of kept him and not get rid of any other core player. They want to get rid of Subban contract because they want to sign Duchene.

If the Canucks are willing to pony up for Myers / Gardiner they ABSOLUTLEY should have been in on Subban.
Subban is 10 times the player Myers / Gardiner (or JT Miller) is. If they are going to try to expedite the rebuild Subban is a player that might actually do something.

Wash
Tampa
Chicago

All 3 actually had to get rid contracts to stay below the cap.

Carolina and Nashville didn't

Big difference

That is not a terrible point, but I think you are putting too much emphasis on it.

Carolina has been comfortably (15mil) under the cap all season. Im pretty sure they are working with an internal cap. Also they are looking to sign Aho to a ~10mil contract.

Nashville is being proactive with their cap situation. They need to resign Josi to a big contract. The fact that is basically known by everyone that they want to shed salary to add Duchene makes this situation very similar to Tampas. Tampa wanted to offload the odd man out to resign Point.

 

[VanJack]

This is a really lazy and misinformed post.

I'd love to be wrong about J.T. Miller....and as long as you don't go back and re-read Jimbo's laughable comments after acquiring Sutter and Gudbranson, then life is good. But what's better? Being 'lazy and misinformed' or an apologist for the current regime who'd rather 'bury their heads in the sand'?

 

[DonnyNucker]

I'd love to be wrong about J.T. Miller....and as long as you don't go back and re-read Jimbo's laughable comments after acquiring Sutter and Gudbranson, then life is good. But what's better? Being 'lazy and misinformed' or an apologist for the current regime who'd rather 'bury their heads in the sand'?

Every analyst in the league agrees Miller is a legit top 6 forward. Only benning and Sutters dad thought he was a second line center. You clearly are too lazy or unable to comprehend simple stats. It’s not about being an apologist it’s about being annoyed by your continual simplistic posts. Think before you type

Edit. Sorry if I’m being rude...just seen a lot of these messages. Hate the trade not the player

 

[me2]

He brings 30-40 ES points, that's Higgins level production. Decent 2nd liner numbers.

 

[Canucks1096]

Ah. Ok we just value DeHaan and Forsling very very differently. I see DeHaan as a legit top4 D and Forsling as a 6th/7th.

DeHaan would



If the Canucks are willing to pony up for Myers / Gardiner they ABSOLUTLEY should have been in on Subban.
Subban is 10 times the player Myers / Gardiner (or JT Miller) is. If they are going to try to expedite the rebuild Subban is a player that might actually do something.



That is not a terrible point, but I think you are putting too much emphasis on it.

Carolina has been comfortably (15mil) under the cap all season. Im pretty sure they are working with an internal cap. Also they are looking to sign Aho to a ~10mil contract.

Nashville is being proactive with their cap situation. They need to resign Josi to a big contract. The fact that is basically known by everyone that they want to shed salary to add Duchene makes this situation very similar to Tampas. Tampa wanted to offload the odd man out to resign Point.

Tampa cap and Nashville cap are totally different. Tampa have to get under the cap because you are not allowed to be over the cap when the season starts. Nash wants to get Subban contract to go in a different direction. Wanting to do something vs have to do something is very different.

Nash has 13 M left in cap space with 21 players signed. They can keep Subban for this season and not get rid of anybody. They all have almost all core signed long term Ekholm Ellis RJ Forsberg Arvidson. Granlund and Smith contract ends next season. That frees 10 M. They can use some of that to sign Josi and keep Subban.

This is just my opinion, but I am pretty sure Nash could of got more from another team but they picked NJ because they want the full 9 M gone. The 9 M cap hit has more to do with the lower trade value than Nash being desperate to clear cap

Haan, so if Carolina has an internal cap, they don't advertise it so we don't know what the numbers is. So do we considered all Carolina trades that bring in lower salaries a cap dump trade? That means every one of those trade they should get lower value?

Daan, I am too lazy to go through every team but the way I measure is if close to half of the teams. Around 10 to 15 team have more than 4 D better Haan. I think it will be around that many teams, I will considered him as 4/5 D. If you have time, you can show me your list?

I see Forsling similiar to Hutton.

 

[Siludin]

The main difference Miller has produce legit top 6 winger numbers before. Sutter never ever put up top 6 numbers. 2017 season, Miller had 56 points and that was 28th in winger scoring. 2018 season, Miller had 58 points and that was 41st in winger scoring. You can make an argument those are 1st line winger numbers. This season 47 points and half of the season on the third line and only playing 14 minutes.

Btw JB called Sutter foundation player
We can read between the lines on what that means. However I don't think he ever said Sutter is a legit second line center.

I don't see any similarities at all,

It's not really a compliment
The foundation is at the bottom of the building. It supports the rest. This is also known as depth. I think Benning just felt Sutter would be, at least nominally, a dedicated player who could bring some respect and favour back to the Canucks, because their reputation had tanked during the Kesler/Burrows years. I think even in Benning's vision of the Canucks roster when it's contending, he saw Sutter as a 4th line player

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Tampa cap and Nashville cap are totally different. Tampa have to get under the cap because you are not allowed to be over the cap when the season starts. Nash wants to get Subban contract to go in a different direction. Wanting to do something vs have to do something is very different.

Nash has 13 M left in cap space with 21 players signed. They can keep Subban for this season and not get rid of anybody. They all have almost all core signed long term Ekholm Ellis RJ Forsberg Arvidson. Granlund and Smith contract ends next season. That frees 10 M. They can use some of that to sign Josi and keep Subban.

This is just my opinion, but I am pretty sure Nash could of got more from another team but they picked NJ because they want the full 9 M gone. The 9 M cap hit has more to do with the lower trade value than Nash being desperate to clear cap

Haan, so if Carolina has an internal cap, they don't advertise it so we don't know what the numbers is. So do we considered all Carolina trades that bring in lower salaries a cap dump trade? That means every one of those trade they should get lower value?

Daan, I am too lazy to go through every team but the way I measure is if close to half of the teams. Around 10 to 15 team have more than 4 D better Haan. I think it will be around that many teams, I will considered him as 4/5 D. If you have time, you can show me your list?

I see Forsling similiar to Hutton.

We just value EVERYTHING differently it seems.

 

[Horse McHindu]

This is a really lazy and misinformed post.

It’s par the course unfortunately.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I'd love to be wrong about J.T. Miller....and as long as you don't go back and re-read Jimbo's laughable comments after acquiring Sutter and Gudbranson, then life is good. But what's better? Being 'lazy and misinformed' or an apologist for the current regime who'd rather 'bury their heads in the sand'?

Who cares what Benning said about this player? Use your own judgment, look at his stats, watch some highlights, ask NYR and TBL fans about him and build your own opinion based on facts and observations. Lazily saying 'if Benning likes him he must suck' just shows that you put zero thought into things and that your insights can be safely ignored.

 

[Captain Bowie]

This trade has all the earmarks of the Sutter deal to me. A guy who Jimbo proclaimed to be a legitimate 'second line center'....and of course he never was. But while that trade cost the Canucks Bonino and draft picks, it least it wasn't a first rounder.

So despite scoring only 13 goals last season (exactly one more than Markus Granlund), Jimbo has anointed J.T. Miller a legitimate top-six forward. Who can blame the Canuck faithful for being uneasy?

Miller and Granlund really don't compare offensively.

Player	Tm	Pos	From	To	Active	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	S	S%	TOI	G	A	PTS	S	OPS	DPS	PS	G	A	PTS
Markus Granlund	TOT	C	2013	2019	6	301	55	42	97	-39	72	43	8	4	7	468	11.8	4588	0.18	0.14	0.32	1.55	3.7	4.1	7.7	58	44	102
J.T. Miller	TOT	C/LW	2012	2019	7	435	95	142	237	23	186	70	22	3	23	699	13.6	6502	0.22	0.33	0.54	1.61	17.7	7.3	25.0	103	150	253

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Granlund's career high is 19 goals, when his shooting % jumped up to 15.6, whereas Miller had 3 straight years surpassing both those numbers before last seasons.

I dislike the trade as much as the next guy, but Miller is easily a top 6 winger on this team, and just about any other.

 

[CherryToke]

I'd love to be wrong about J.T. Miller....and as long as you don't go back and re-read Jimbo's laughable comments after acquiring Sutter and Gudbranson, then life is good. But what's better? Being 'lazy and misinformed' or an apologist for the current regime who'd rather 'bury their heads in the sand'?

Well you are wrong so you should be happy.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Should be no debate.


Subban
DeHaan

DeHaan has had four major shoulder surgeries. Benning overpaid for Miller, but the comparison with DeHaan is senseless.

 

[Quinning]

Should have countered with two 2nd rounders and they would have gotten the deal done.

A lot of this depends on how Hoglander pans out.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I'd love to be wrong about J.T. Miller....and as long as you don't go back and re-read Jimbo's laughable comments after acquiring Sutter and Gudbranson, then life is good. But what's better? Being 'lazy and misinformed' or an apologist for the current regime who'd rather 'bury their heads in the sand'?

No one else's remarks or attitude have anything to do with yours being lazy and misinformed or justify these things, and your laziness and ignorance doesn't justify anyone else's behaviour either. I would have thought this was obvious.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Loud noises!