What can we do to get Keefe fired.

[NMacrules]

We'll never get rid of this clown now.

Keefe will say we won 2 of the last 3 instead of saying won 2 of the last 6.

 

[egd27]

People keep saying this, but nobody in this thread has once pointed out the specific tactical mistakes Keefe makes.

I'll start......

At home, against a divisional rival (close in the standings) he has a line of Kampf (4th liner) Knies (rookie) and Gregor (PTO) on the ice with 1:40 to go in the 3rd period of a tied game.

Oh yea, the Wings scored the winning goal and move 2 points closer.

Who wants to go next?

 

[Evilhomer]

People keep saying this, but nobody in this thread has once pointed out the specific tactical mistakes Keefe makes.

I'm not sure the issue is even tactical mistakes. The reality of human nature is that after a certain period of time people tend to tune out the same voice. I think a coaching change is a good idea at this point because the same voice for the last several years has not produced a satisfactory result. It's just time for a new voice.

 

[LeafEgo]

I'll start......

At home, against a divisional rival (close in the standings) he has a line of Kampf (4th liner) Knies (rookie) and Gregor (PTO) on the ice with 1:40 to go in the 3rd period of a tied game.

Oh yea, the Wings scored the winning goal and move 2 points closer.

Who wants to go next?

We don't play with structure. The third wheel to the M&M line always looks like an intern trying to prove value - hustle, hit the corners, dig pucks out to the stars. Hyman was our best intern but in Edmonton turns out he can be a lot more. Our defense panic exits and nobodies in the right spot to get it out.

We just throw folks over the boards and the plan is for the stars to will their way through with talent, which is abundant, so works often enough, but when the opposition is organized and shuts them down we lose. The depth has no hope in this environment.

This is exasperated in the playoffs when teams have more time and focus - usually commitment to parking the bus.

Keefe never really had a fair shake though.

 

[Its not your fault]

Seems you need to call the people that got Cherry fired for advice.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

I'll start......

At home, against a divisional rival (close in the standings) he has a line of Kampf (4th liner) Knies (rookie) and Gregor (PTO) on the ice with 1:40 to go in the 3rd period of a tied game.

Oh yea, the Wings scored the winning goal and move 2 points closer.

Who wants to go next?

I've seen Bruce Cassidy do this a bunch, so has Todd Mclellan with his fourth line, both to give their top players a rest. Should either of them get fired?

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Here's my general opinion of his tenure. Both tactical and man management wise.

A coach shouldn't be fired for a short burst of bad games but he should have been fired years ago for these reasons.

Excessive pinching by defensemen including incapable ones. Complicated reliance on drop-back passes/turnbacks in big games to maintain possession only to lose it.

This is wonderful if you're rocking a couple of Makars on the backend. Not so much with the Leafs group.

He also has a reliance on man-on-man coverage, which is fine with appropriate depth and skating ability. When you start leaning on specific players, it becomes a lot less manageable and he's finding that out now with a weakened roster.

Yes, all of this is now exaggerated with the bad goaltending and weak defense but a coach has to adapt to his resources. Treliving/Dubas are also to blame because players like Bertuzzi are not built for these systems and can't execute at the same level.

He's also shown an inability to adapt in the playoffs as the other coach runs circles around him. In multiple playoff series, the Leafs have been pressed on the forecheck and cut down in the neutral zone because of their inability to go north-south with their game. Even in the Tampa series, they were getting schooled by Cooper in big chunks of the series. This is one of the main reasons he should be removed because the regular season issues are brand-new and not even the main concern with his coaching.

Keefe is also not a good motivator as seen with their flat starts for the past 4-5 years. This includes big games. Lack of accountability with stars and no consequences for bad play.

Good post, some points I agree with.

Bolded: This was an issue (even worse, statistically) with Babcock. His phrase was "we didn't start on time" and repeated it endlessly. The common denominator is the players, not the coach.

Would you say he got outcoached/run circles around in 2022 against Tampa? They lost the series, but were better by every conceivable metric compared to Tampa.

This, to my, when analyzed objectively, is a roster related/personnel issue rather than a coach issue. Keefe has shown throughout his tenure that his teams can play a very structured, complete game. Go back to the Canadian bubble or last season where the Leafs had elite offensive and defensive metrics. The personnel changed. They never replaced Muzzin, Mikheyev, Engvall, Kerfoot or Hyman. All very good 2 way players.

 

[egd27]

I've seen Bruce Cassidy do this a bunch, so has Todd Mclellan with his fourth line, both to give their top players a rest. Should either of them get fired?

Really? You've seen them deploy a 4th liner with a rookie and PTO in the last two minutes of a tied home game against a divisional rival "a bunch of times".

Please give me a couple of examples and I'll go look up the shift charts.


You're suspect post aside, you had asked for specific examples of tactical errors and I provided one. There are many more.

 

[supermann_98]

People keep saying this, but nobody in this thread has once pointed out the specific tactical mistakes Keefe makes.

Does leading the league in too-many-men penalties count? It was always universally accepted to be a coaching error in the past.

Does losing to bottom 5 teams on a regular basis count? The team continually overlooks also-ran teams on a quiet Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday night and gets out worked in pretty much all of these games, showing he doesn't have the team ready to play, physically, mentally, or a combination of both.

What about getting a 3-1 lead in the playoffs against Montreal with a shutout performance, only to galaxy brain and change the lineup for the potential series clincher, and go on to lose in 7 against a rookie coach.

If Keefe had the cajones to bag skate this collection of wimps and demand some accountability I'd have a different opinion and could overlook his glaring flaws, but he's fit into the team culture and has also been a wimp when it comes to demanding accountability, even taking back criticism of the teams stars when they don't like it.

Embarrassing really

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

Wait for the season to end.

 

[BallardEra]

Wait for the season to end.

Sure, might as well burn another season with Keefe.

He should have not been brought back for this season.

 

[ACC1224]

Does leading the league in too-many-men penalties count? It was always universally accepted to be a coaching error in the past.

Why do you think that’s a ‘coaching error’?

 

[mapleleaf979]

The 2 things Keefe knows is who is 1 and 2 centers are. The rest he has no clue after 5 years. Revolving door of wingers on both sides of Tavares and Matthews , 3rd and 4th line always changing. D pairings are unknown. Appears like players play their own system, dmen pinch with a 4-1 lead, forwards dont backcheck when hungover or dont feel like it. etc.

 

[Nineteen67]

Here's my general opinion of his tenure. Both tactical and man management wise.

A coach shouldn't be fired for a short burst of bad games but he should have been fired years ago for these reasons.

Excessive pinching by defensemen including incapable ones. Complicated reliance on drop-back passes/turnbacks in big games to maintain possession only to lose it.

This is wonderful if you're rocking a couple of Makars on the backend. Not so much with the Leafs group.

He also has a reliance on man-on-man coverage, which is fine with appropriate depth and skating ability. When you start leaning on specific players, it becomes a lot less manageable and he's finding that out now with a weakened roster.

Yes, all of this is now exaggerated with the bad goaltending and weak defense but a coach has to adapt to his resources. Treliving/Dubas are also to blame because players like Bertuzzi are not built for these systems and can't execute at the same level.

He's also shown an inability to adapt in the playoffs as the other coach runs circles around him. In multiple playoff series, the Leafs have been pressed on the forecheck and cut down in the neutral zone because of their inability to go north-south with their game. Even in the Tampa series, they were getting schooled by Cooper in big chunks of the series. This is one of the main reasons he should be removed because the regular season issues are brand-new and not even the main concern with his coaching.

Keefe is also not a good motivator as seen with their flat starts for the past 4-5 years. This includes big games. Lack of accountability with stars and no consequences for bad play.

Great points.

Two years ago Cooper did not have his team ready for two games against the Leafs and it almost cost them the series.

 

[Racer88]

Like Keefe or not it’s obvious they are not making any fundamental changes to the make up of this team so the only thing left is replacing the coach……hopefully one who can implement some structure and accountability

 

[supermann_98]

Why do you think that’s a ‘coaching error’?

Because it's been considered a coaching error as long as I've watched hockey (mid-80's). I can't imagine Pat Burns or Pat Quinn allowing that to continue without reaming out the idiots who jump on the ice before they're supposed to or don't hustle their asses back to the bench for the line change

 

[ACC1224]

Because it's been considered a coaching error as long as I've watched hockey (mid-80's). I can't imagine Pat Burns or Pat Quinn allowing that to continue without reaming out the idiots who jump on the ice before they're supposed to or don't hustle their asses back to the bench for the line change

I've never heard it described as a coaching error, he's certainly not telling them when to jump on the ice.
If it's just because he doesn't yell at them while the cameras are on him, that seems a little silly. Not sure how you know he hasn't taken to 'reaming out the idiots'.

 

[Lightsol]

People keep saying this, but nobody in this thread has once pointed out the specific tactical mistakes Keefe makes.

• Overplaying the 3rd and 4th lines in situations where you shouldn't. Like oh, say, the 3rd period of a game in which you are tied or down and need offense.
• Sticking with lineups that don't mesh well, and then chaging lineups when meshing finally appears to be happening, meaning that the team never really gels properly.
• Going back to the same combinations, no matter how obvious it is that they aren't working anymore.
• Not recognizing when players are out of their depth, either because they're not ready for the increased responsibilities, or they are no longer able to play the way they used to and thus need their ice time lowered.
• Repeatedly putting rookies in positions to fail so he can justify either sending them back to the Marlies or dropping them to the botom of the lineup.
• Lack of consistency in how he decides to increase/decrease ice time, leading to players either playing scared (see: Liljegren) because any mistake means ice time loss and/or being pressboxed, or players playing however they want because they know they aren't losing ice time anyway.
• Lack of defensive structure and an obsession with maintaining puck possesion at all costs leading to players doing the kinds of things kids starting ouit are specifically told NOT to do, like throwing the puck uip the boards (or out through the middle) rather than just dumping it. Every team in the league has figured out the Leafs do this, and at least 4 of the games in that streak were off goals that were scored via intercepting said puck throws up the boards before the forwards could get to them.
• Power play going constantly stale and an absolute refusal to change it up when it does.
• Loading up the first PP unit, only to play the units like they both had equivalent talent.
• Giving too much PK time to guys who have never PK'ed before, while cutting the PK time of gujys who have been doing it for years.

I can keep going if you want, but this about sums up my feelings on Keefe.

I've never heard it described as a coaching error, he's certainly not telling them when to jump on the ice.
If it's just because he doesn't yell at them while the cameras are on him, that seems a little silly. Not sure how you know he hasn't taken to 'reaming out the idiots'.

Yeah the prolific TMM calls are one place where I won't really blame Keefe... Or the players, because it's been clear for a while that the issue there is the league looking for an opportunity to call TMM on the Leafs. They don't change any differently than any other NHL team, and unless the guy going off plays the puck or someone is clearly hotdogging it to the bench, it shouldn't be called...

 

[colchar]

Why do you think that’s a ‘coaching error’?

Um, did you not bother to read the second sentence you quoted?

 

[ACC1224]

Um, did you not bother to read the second sentence you quoted?

I did. Not sure how it’s relevant or even accurate.
I was giving the op a chance to explain their view. I’m assuming they think for themselves

 

[mikeyz]

People keep saying this, but nobody in this thread has once pointed out the specific tactical mistakes Keefe makes.

Would you like that list alphabetically or by category?

It’s not really that hard to see if you’ve been watching this team the last five years.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Would you like that list alphabetically or by category?

It’s not really that hard to see if you’ve been watching this team the last five years.

I don't watch the games anymore same story same

 

[Enga Olly]

Berube available?

 

[NMacrules]

Why do you think that’s a ‘coaching error’?

To be fair, most bench minors are the coaches fault, like to many men on the ice...which the Leafs lead the league. Those types of bench minors are 100% the coaches fault.

 

[BayStBullies]

Seems you need to call the people that got Cherry fired for advice.

Unless Keefe starts being openly racist, I'm not sure how that is related.