ICdave
Registered User
Plenty of reaction to last night's 6-3 loss to the Hawks in today's papers.
As per usual, audio from practice today will be on site around noon.
Post-Game Talk: Well this is familiar: Jets lose 6-3 to the HelmetPardy guys
- Thread starter YWGinYYZ
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Plenty of reaction to last night's 6-3 loss to the Hawks in today's papers.
As per usual, audio from practice today will be on site around noon.
Guerzy
I'm a fricken baby
- Jan 16, 2005
- 39,830
- 3,111
I'm pretty well with those who believe the playoffs are out of sight. While the Western teams above us may slow down, who's to say we speed up? and do we speed up enough? And I honestly don't see the majority of them slowing too much. Chicago, St. Louis, SJ, LA have all proven to be juggernauts of the West. I don't classify Anaheim as a juggernaut or elite but truth be told I have to give them credit as they were very good last season and are showing to be very good again, and with Perry and Getzlaf leading the way, those are 2 legit stars. Phoenix has proven to be no slouch over the years. Minnesota may slow a bit, Colorado possibly. Then you've got Vancouver on the outs right now, I think they're bound to heat up at some point. I just don't see it. The margins are incredibly slim. We're a .500 team. I'm optimistic but I don't feel optimistic about this. It sucks, but as of November 22nd here I am pretty comfortable with the fact I don't think we'll be too close to the playoff line. Unfortunately.
I still feel Noel isn't the coach for this organization headed forward. But I also feel the players do get much of the blame too. I think we look pretty good on paper but truth is, we're just not very good, unfortunately. We're the same one line team (Ladd - Little - Wheeler) and top defensive guys (Enstrom, Byfuglien) as we've been since we got the team.
If I want to place blame, it's in the hands of everyone right now, Noel, the players, Cheveldayoff.
I'm at the point now where what happens, happens. I'm not going to get overly caught up in it, I'm just going to enjoy the games for what they are and hope one day we can be like Chicago, St. Louis, LA, etc.
I can certainly see Duke's concerns here in this thread. Absolutely. He's watched this core be assembled and built from the ground up and now he's watching them dangle in the wind. I'm feeling the same way and I've been someone who was very patient for the process since the team arrived. I understand drafting and developing, I am all for that process. But, I am also under the belief that with the core players we've got right now on paper, I don't see why we're so poor. Or why we have so much trouble surrounding them with suitable, productive players as a supporting cast. Why in this process we cannot take the next step on the ice. We're toiling away each season with the same problems and roster deficiencies. Chevy has pretty well swapped out the entire supporting cast other than the core with no success. I still think it's unfortunate to not begin making necessary changes to improve the on-ice product. I understand why we couldn't/didn't the first couple seasons, but now that we've got some good prospects in the system, we've got two recent 1st round picks in the NHL, we've got our draft picks in good supply, etc.. I fail to see what we are waiting for. I don't intend to say sell the farm to improve, but I do think Chevy as the GM could surely make this team better. A year from now Ladd will be in year 4 of 5 of his contract and can negotiate an extension, I fear he won't if we have yet to make any on-ice strides. And, I couldn't blame him.
I still feel Noel isn't the coach for this organization headed forward. But I also feel the players do get much of the blame too. I think we look pretty good on paper but truth is, we're just not very good, unfortunately. We're the same one line team (Ladd - Little - Wheeler) and top defensive guys (Enstrom, Byfuglien) as we've been since we got the team.
If I want to place blame, it's in the hands of everyone right now, Noel, the players, Cheveldayoff.
I'm at the point now where what happens, happens. I'm not going to get overly caught up in it, I'm just going to enjoy the games for what they are and hope one day we can be like Chicago, St. Louis, LA, etc.
I can certainly see Duke's concerns here in this thread. Absolutely. He's watched this core be assembled and built from the ground up and now he's watching them dangle in the wind. I'm feeling the same way and I've been someone who was very patient for the process since the team arrived. I understand drafting and developing, I am all for that process. But, I am also under the belief that with the core players we've got right now on paper, I don't see why we're so poor. Or why we have so much trouble surrounding them with suitable, productive players as a supporting cast. Why in this process we cannot take the next step on the ice. We're toiling away each season with the same problems and roster deficiencies. Chevy has pretty well swapped out the entire supporting cast other than the core with no success. I still think it's unfortunate to not begin making necessary changes to improve the on-ice product. I understand why we couldn't/didn't the first couple seasons, but now that we've got some good prospects in the system, we've got two recent 1st round picks in the NHL, we've got our draft picks in good supply, etc.. I fail to see what we are waiting for. I don't intend to say sell the farm to improve, but I do think Chevy as the GM could surely make this team better. A year from now Ladd will be in year 4 of 5 of his contract and can negotiate an extension, I fear he won't if we have yet to make any on-ice strides. And, I couldn't blame him.
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SensibleGuy
Registered User
- Nov 26, 2011
- 12,369
- 8,622
Playoffs are a pipe dream at this point. Its got nothing to do with what the teams above us do. Even if we go conservative and say 92 points gets us in (which it won't but for the sake of argument) we'd have to go what, something like 35-23 in our remaining games? I really don't see this team pulling that off.
I'm not real upset about last night. No surprise we lost to the Hawks. I was more pee'd off about the previous game. Those are the games this team needs to win.
I'm not real upset about last night. No surprise we lost to the Hawks. I was more pee'd off about the previous game. Those are the games this team needs to win.
"I still feel Noel isn't the coach for this organization headed forward. But I also feel the players do get much of the blame too. I think we look pretty good on paper but truth is, we're just not very good, unfortunately."
I diligently watch most of the Jets, Flyers and Kings games and this comment is probably as close to my opinion as it can get. Like the Flyers, the Jets look good on paper but unlike Flyers fans, Jets fans are realists. Yes, realistically speaking, the Jets are out of the play-offs because it would take a major turn-around for this team to catch the San Joses', LAs' and St Louis' of the world, let alone the Phoenix', Chicagos' and Minnesotas'. The Kings are, on paper, not that much a better team, talent wise, than the Jets. What's the difference? They're big and they're coached by Darryl Sutter to play a very disciplined, tough game with, generally speaking, more than adequate goal-tending and some good defence by Doughty and Voynov. With the Jets, you never know what you're going to get, game in game out. Their defence is lacking (injuries?) and their goal-tending is mediocre, at best. And I'm not sure Coach Noel has a system for winning in this conference.
The Flyers may make the play-offs (and so would the Jets) because they play in a terrifically horrible division (excluding Pittsburgh) and a poor conference. The major difference I see between the two teams is Mason (and Emery) have provided exceptional goal-tending that has kept them in games and, recently, provided sufficient back-up for their recent streak. The Flyers defence is likely not as good, overall, as the Jets but the Flyers' goal-tending has been, comparably, way above average.
I diligently watch most of the Jets, Flyers and Kings games and this comment is probably as close to my opinion as it can get. Like the Flyers, the Jets look good on paper but unlike Flyers fans, Jets fans are realists. Yes, realistically speaking, the Jets are out of the play-offs because it would take a major turn-around for this team to catch the San Joses', LAs' and St Louis' of the world, let alone the Phoenix', Chicagos' and Minnesotas'. The Kings are, on paper, not that much a better team, talent wise, than the Jets. What's the difference? They're big and they're coached by Darryl Sutter to play a very disciplined, tough game with, generally speaking, more than adequate goal-tending and some good defence by Doughty and Voynov. With the Jets, you never know what you're going to get, game in game out. Their defence is lacking (injuries?) and their goal-tending is mediocre, at best. And I'm not sure Coach Noel has a system for winning in this conference.
The Flyers may make the play-offs (and so would the Jets) because they play in a terrifically horrible division (excluding Pittsburgh) and a poor conference. The major difference I see between the two teams is Mason (and Emery) have provided exceptional goal-tending that has kept them in games and, recently, provided sufficient back-up for their recent streak. The Flyers defence is likely not as good, overall, as the Jets but the Flyers' goal-tending has been, comparably, way above average.
Romang67
BitterSwede
This is very, VERY concerning to me. The last year in Atlanta, when we made the trade for Wheeler and Stuart, we were basically LLW and Enström and Byfuglien, with Pavelec stealing a game here and there, and Kane using his speed and pure will to score a goal now and again.
This year, we are basically LLW and Enström and Byfuglien, with Pavelec stealing a game here and there, and Kane using his speed and pure will to score a goal now and again.
Burmistrov? KHL. Scheifele? Not close to being a key contributant to the team atm. The rest of our draftees? Even the ones with huge upside, I just don't see them joining the team and our coaches improving them.
Even Huddy, for all the praise he gets for Bogosian, what has he really done to improve our defense? Bogosian isn't really close to being the surefire #1 he looked to become in our first year. Enström was already an amazing D-man when he came to Winnipeg. Byfuglien has made minor improvements, but is still as reliable as my old Volkswagen Passat which doors couldn't close when it got cold outside.
Where is the progress? How can a team that was young have made almost no progress over 3 years? Is it Chevy drafting the wrong players and picking up the wrong free agents? Is it Noel's inability to have young players make progress?
What progress have we seen our players make, that aren't just them getting more physically mature?
sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
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Wow, kind of lost me when you say the Kings and Jets are equal on talent. Quick would also make any coach look pretty good.
LadyJet26
LETS GO BLUE!!!!!
As much as I don't like the Kings, they have way more talent then the Jets do. Is anyone forgetting they have gold medallists on their team? Jeff Carter, Kopitar. All guys that actually show up every week.
I'm kinda glad I had to work last night. I'm going to say we pretended to be in it, but Chicago then took over the game?
Blue Shakehead
because lol Jets
Chevy has a plan and its all part of a process. He's patiently stocking our cupboards everyday with more cupboards full of cupboards of prospects, which is stage 1 of his blueprint for building a proven winner. He doesn't want to build an 8th seed team that makes the playoffs just for the sake of making the playoffs, he wants to build a contender. He's playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers.
sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
- 32,260
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Trouble is every GM of every of the other 30 teams in the league is also trying to do the same thing. Some times draft picks pan out, most of the time they don't, it's a crap shoot.
What we do know of Chevy, he drafted a good player in Trouba, he has picked up a few good players on the waiver wire, he has been able to re-sign most of our top players.
Has he overpaid on some, yes, has he made to big a commitment to unproven players (Pavs), yes, has he picked up weak players on the waiver wire, yes, has he made or traded away a player he shouldn't have, yes, Oduya, has he signed a FA he shouldn't have, yes Jokinen, has he made a significant trade to improve the team, NO.
Jury is still out on Chevy.
Prior to Dudley the organization brought in (drafted) Little, Pavs, Kane, Enstrom, Slater and little else (of the players that remain with the club), Dudley came in and in just over a year he acquired Buff, Ladd and Wheeler, pretty big pieces of the organization. To underestimate what Dudley did for the team is plain wrong, getting our BEST forward and BEST D man deserves praise.
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Aavco Cup
"I can make you cry in this room"
- Sep 5, 2013
- 37,630
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The west is tougher. Noel has at least tried to adapt. We've become a trapping team. It may not be as evident on TV but the last 2 games I've attended (last night and St. Paul) it was quite evident to me. The first period last night it was actually fairly effective. Chicago turned the puck over in the neutral zone several times. Problem was we didn't take advantage of those turnovers. Not even getting a shot on goal. I think Noel referenced this in his press conference. The lopsided shot differential in the first was aided by the 2 PP's the hawks had with I think 5 SOG. We are attempting at least to adapt to the new conference. It's not as fun to watch as the run and gun of last year. LLW are pretty effective in this style. The other lines not so much. 55 especially seems a bit lost in this style at least so far.
Thanks! Looking forward to it - know how much work goes into them, so I certainly appreciate it.
Whereas I see the argument on the core not being supported I think that we have to place some blame on that very core.
Ladd and Little are the only 2 core players who have been consistently good, doing their jobs, giving 100% effort and executing at a high level game in and game out since they've been in Winnipeg. Even Ladd wasn't great in the first season (you remember all the guaranteed stick fouls?
) - Bogosian: Has had injury problems and has been inconsistent this year when we needed him to beast
- Byfuglien: Sure, 6 goals in 6 games and some pretty inspired play of late, but we seem to forget when he is playing like this that there is another side of big Buff -- a lazy, uninspired black hole of defense. He wins us games but he also has the capacity to lose us games.
- Enstrom: Has been fantastic this year but again has had injury issues and was pretty inconsistent the first 2 seasons
- Kane: Was a total beast for us early but takes too many penalties and when he gets frustrated he stops scoring and really doesn't to a lot to generate offense.
- Wheeler: We know all about good Wheeler bad Wheeler. I really think he is trying this year but his confidence issues are back.
Pavelec: No comment. He is finally giving us the save percentage we need but he needed to be better last night (I am fully aware how good some of the Hawks goals were and how talented they are). The first 2 seasons I blame us missing the playoffs in a large part on goaltending and how Noel used his goalies too.
So, while we have brought in support players on the cheap, on waivers, and the ones we paid for haven't really done what we needed them to do, the core, IMHO has not performed the way we have needed them to to be a consistently good hockey team.
The things we need to do to be better immediately will not hurt the future of this club. I've said them before and will say them again:
Fire Noel. Need a new coach. He has gotten the team playing better lately but there are still serious issues with how we play.
Trade Byfuglien. He is the most inconsistent core player, is a declining asset, and his value is very high now. It will never be higher IMHO. He is healthy and scoring like a beast. Address some needs in a trade. He is our best chip and does not really fit in with the rest of the core when you look at age, contract status and defence corps makeup.
Get a 1B goalie. Not that I am ready to jettison Montoya after one bad game, but a guy who can really push for the starter role is what we need. A guy who can be clutch and to help beat the Hawks' of the NHL.
Blue Shakehead
because lol Jets
I can't imagine a Byfuglien trade scenario that we win. He's a dynamic elite player. There's really only 50-60 elite players in this league. So unless we get one of those coming back (tip: we won't), then don't be surprised when we lose the trade.
Its a lot easier to replace a #4 LHD (Hello Johnny Oduya) and #2/3 C than it is a #1 D.
Trade Byfuglien if you want to rebuild, recognizing that this team isn't a contender and most likely won't be a contender for years. But its fairly naive to trade Buff thinking it would improve our team immediately.
Its a lot easier to replace a #4 LHD (Hello Johnny Oduya) and #2/3 C than it is a #1 D.
Trade Byfuglien if you want to rebuild, recognizing that this team isn't a contender and most likely won't be a contender for years. But its fairly naive to trade Buff thinking it would improve our team immediately.
Guerzy
I'm a fricken baby
- Jan 16, 2005
- 39,830
- 3,111
Whereas I see the argument on the core not being supported I think that we have to place some blame on that very core.
Ladd and Little are the only 2 core players who have been consistently good, doing their jobs, giving 100% effort and executing at a high level game in and game out since they've been in Winnipeg. Even Ladd wasn't great in the first season (you remember all the guaranteed stick fouls?
- Bogosian: Has had injury problems and has been inconsistent this year when we needed him to beast
- Byfuglien: Sure, 6 goals in 6 games and some pretty inspired play of late, but we seem to forget when he is playing like this that there is another side of big Buff -- a lazy, uninspired black hole of defense. He wins us games but he also has the capacity to lose us games.
- Enstrom: Has been fantastic this year but again has had injury issues and was pretty inconsistent the first 2 seasons
- Kane: Was a total beast for us early but takes too many penalties and when he gets frustrated he stops scoring and really doesn't to a lot to generate offense.
- Wheeler: We know all about good Wheeler bad Wheeler. I really think he is trying this year but his confidence issues are back.
Pavelec: No comment. He is finally giving us the save percentage we need but he needed to be better last night (I am fully aware how good some of the Hawks goals were and how talented they are). The first 2 seasons I blame us missing the playoffs in a large part on goaltending and how Noel used his goalies too.
So, while we have brought in support players on the cheap, on waivers, and the ones we paid for haven't really done what we needed them to do, the core, IMHO has not performed the way we have needed them to to be a consistently good hockey team.
The things we need to do to be better immediately will not hurt the future of this club. I've said them before and will say them again:
Fire Noel. Need a new coach. He has gotten the team playing better lately but there are still serious issues with how we play.
Trade Byfuglien. He is the most inconsistent core player, is a declining asset, and his value is very high now. It will never be higher IMHO. He is healthy and scoring like a beast. Address some needs in a trade. He is our best chip and does not really fit in with the rest of the core when you look at age, contract status and defence corps makeup.
Get a 1B goalie. Not that I am ready to jettison Montoya after one bad game, but a guy who can really push for the starter role is what we need. A guy who can be clutch and to help beat the Hawks' of the NHL.
Can't really disagree with your points there , Jet. I do feel much the same. We need our core parts all clicking at once, if at all possible..
And I certainly agree with your couple points on what we could do in order to potentially improve on what isn't/hasn't worked since we got the team. I've been very vocal on those points.
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Warhead77
Jets4Life
Whereas I see the argument on the core not being supported I think that we have to place some blame on that very core.
Ladd and Little are the only 2 core players who have been consistently good, doing their jobs, giving 100% effort and executing at a high level game in and game out since they've been in Winnipeg. Even Ladd wasn't great in the first season (you remember all the guaranteed stick fouls?
- Bogosian: Has had injury problems and has been inconsistent this year when we needed him to beast
- Byfuglien: Sure, 6 goals in 6 games and some pretty inspired play of late, but we seem to forget when he is playing like this that there is another side of big Buff -- a lazy, uninspired black hole of defense. He wins us games but he also has the capacity to lose us games.
- Enstrom: Has been fantastic this year but again has had injury issues and was pretty inconsistent the first 2 seasons
- Kane: Was a total beast for us early but takes too many penalties and when he gets frustrated he stops scoring and really doesn't to a lot to generate offense.
- Wheeler: We know all about good Wheeler bad Wheeler. I really think he is trying this year but his confidence issues are back.
Pavelec: No comment. He is finally giving us the save percentage we need but he needed to be better last night (I am fully aware how good some of the Hawks goals were and how talented they are). The first 2 seasons I blame us missing the playoffs in a large part on goaltending and how Noel used his goalies too.
So, while we have brought in support players on the cheap, on waivers, and the ones we paid for haven't really done what we needed them to do, the core, IMHO has not performed the way we have needed them to to be a consistently good hockey team.
The things we need to do to be better immediately will not hurt the future of this club. I've said them before and will say them again:
Fire Noel. Need a new coach. He has gotten the team playing better lately but there are still serious issues with how we play.
Trade Byfuglien. He is the most inconsistent core player, is a declining asset, and his value is very high now. It will never be higher IMHO. He is healthy and scoring like a beast. Address some needs in a trade. He is our best chip and does not really fit in with the rest of the core when you look at age, contract status and defence corps makeup.
Get a 1B goalie. Not that I am ready to jettison Montoya after one bad game, but a guy who can really push for the starter role is what we need. A guy who can be clutch and to help beat the Hawks' of the NHL.
All great points - I agree.
Cyro
シ
Snarly bunch after a loss eh?
So what's the plan for management? 3 or 5 year plan?
Fire Noel at Christmas? Trade away the core signed to long term contracts?
Maybe a little patience is needed? 1 full season, 1 lock out shortened season and 24 games in the 3rd?
Maybe we should just....
..blow it up?
Stick with the plan, give it this season....at least 1/2..
So what's the plan for management? 3 or 5 year plan?
Fire Noel at Christmas? Trade away the core signed to long term contracts?
Maybe a little patience is needed? 1 full season, 1 lock out shortened season and 24 games in the 3rd?
Maybe we should just....
..blow it up? Stick with the plan, give it this season....at least 1/2..
cbcwpg
Registered User
I have no issue with the Chicago game and the result, because as I said before... we aren't even in the same league as the Hawks . The Jets game gave me two periods of hope, then reality came crashing down on me ( and because the Jets banned all helmets , not one of those ) .
As for the playoffs, with 58 games left, we almost need to win 2 out of every 3 games to get in with only a small slide here and there, and sorry... this team is not capable of doing that. Now I know how most baseball fans feel. You're out of the playoffs before the season hits the quarter pole.
The thing that really sucks is that 3 of the worst teams in the NHL are in western Canada and I have to listen to people from Phoenix tell me that.
As for the playoffs, with 58 games left, we almost need to win 2 out of every 3 games to get in with only a small slide here and there, and sorry... this team is not capable of doing that. Now I know how most baseball fans feel. You're out of the playoffs before the season hits the quarter pole.
The thing that really sucks is that 3 of the worst teams in the NHL are in western Canada
and I have to listen to people from Phoenix tell me that.
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sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
- 32,260
- 43,248
I
The thing that really sucks is that 3 of the worst teams in the NHL are in western Canada
Two more years (or sooner) and you won't have to listen to people from Phoenix, $50 million in losses will come up fast!
Cyro
シ
The thing that really sucks is that 3 of the worst teams in the NHL are in western Canada
I feel your pain.
WinnipegWinter*
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