Post-Game Talk: Well this is familiar: Jets lose 6-3 to the HelmetPardy guys

[Jet]

I can't imagine a Byfuglien trade scenario that we win. He's a dynamic elite player. There's really only 50-60 elite players in this league. So unless we get one of those coming back (tip: we won't), then don't be surprised when we lose the trade.

Its a lot easier to replace a #4 LHD (Hello Johnny Oduya) and #2/3 C than it is a #1 D.

Trade Byfuglien if you want to rebuild, recognizing that this team isn't a contender and most likely won't be a contender for years. But its fairly naive to trade Buff thinking it would improve our team immediately.

The thing that people consistently delete from this very argument is the fact that Buff is not a 60 point elite defenseman that plays well defensively.

When you look at a player you have to add up all the parts of his play to get a true assessment. On the outside you see a one of a kind dynamic point producer. That is what makes him marketable. For the Jets, unfortunately that is only half of the story.

It's like saying that if say Setoguchi and Datsyuk produce the same amount of points they are somehow equal. We all know that is crazy.

You have to look at the NET gain of a player to a team and IMHO Dustin Byfuglien's net gain is far less that what trading him for the Schenn's would be.

 

[Positive]

Let me be the first to say that I don't think Noel is very effective at his job

Wait...what?

 

[CorgisPer60]

Wait...what?

Shhh. His username is WinnipegWinter. Winter came to the prairies late this year.

 

[Guardian17]

I'm pretty well with those who believe the playoffs are out of sight. While the Western teams above us may slow down, who's to say we speed up? and do we speed up enough? And I honestly don't see the majority of them slowing too much.

I'm at the point now where what happens, happens. I'm not going to get overly caught up in it, I'm just going to enjoy the games for what they are and hope one day we can be like Chicago, St. Louis, LA, etc.

I agree with you on this.

Chicago was terrible in the early 2000's and it took a long time, and a little luck in the draft, to get to where they are now.

 

[Aavco Cup]

@CJOBSports: #NHLJets Mark Stuart says he has been cleared by training staff to play, now up to coaches for tomorrow's game with #MNWild

@CJOBSports: #NHLJets practice ends with a shootout contest...Ladd scored by the way... - JT

@CJOBSports: A recount shows #NHLJets Dustin Byfuglien not on ice for practice, most likely a maintenance day - JT

@WiebeSunSports: Setoguchi has returned to the ice for #NHLJets so shot to face must not have been too serious

 

[Positive]

I agree with you on this.

Chicago was terrible in the early 2000's and it took a long time, and a little luck in the draft, to get to where they are now.

Yep Chicago was a dead franchise for about a decade. Absolutely miserable season in 2003 where they finished with a measly 59 pts. In 2005 they only had 26 wins & 65 pts. In 2006, 31 wins and 71 pts. Missed the playoffs again in 2007 with 88 pts. Then a dramatic turnaround in 2008 where they mustered 104 pts. The emergence and breakouts of Toews and Kane resurrected that franchise from the dead.

 

[Avocado Coolranch]

Don't understand the whole 'jets look better on paper' stuff. This team is essentially the same team last year and they didn't make the playoffs in a weaker division. The only difference is the addition of frolik and seto, minus antropov, burmi, wellwood. At most a lateral change if not worse than last year. Seto has a tendency to be streaky, inconsistent, frolik a PK specialist, ganted frolik has been good, maybe exceeding expectations but this team still lacks a legit second line center and third liners who can do well along the boards, fore check well, and can make plays. And that's why I predicted the jets to not make playoffs this year before the season even started, especially in a tougher division and conference. Chevy didn't do enough in the offseason and just kinda gambled on the rookies to step up for the challenge and so far has been a bust (sheif clearly not ready and trouba injured). The question now is if this core is good enough to make playoffs in the near future? I don't think so... Chevy needs to address the holes in this team. I understand that his plan is to build through the draft but that's the plan for building a cup contender. The short term plan should be to make playoffs and Chevy isn't doing enough to address that. Too lax IMO. Jokinen, seto, frolik, waiver wire pickups, etc. are not good enough. I can understand the blame on the coaching staff but at the same time, not a lot of good pieces there for them to work with... same old stuff.

 

[seasontixholder*]

Two more years (or sooner) and you won't have to listen to people from Phoenix, $50 million in losses will come up fast!

I spit up my pepsi reading that Sip! Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh today.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

The thing that people consistently delete from this very argument is the fact that Buff is not a 60 point elite defenseman that plays well defensively.

When you look at a player you have to add up all the parts of his play to get a true assessment. On the outside you see a one of a kind dynamic point producer. That is what makes him marketable. For the Jets, unfortunately that is only half of the story.

It's like saying that if say Setoguchi and Datsyuk produce the same amount of points they are somehow equal. We all know that is crazy.

You have to look at the NET gain of a player to a team and IMHO Dustin Byfuglien's net gain is far less that what trading him for the Schenn's would be.

Buff defensive game is vastly underrated. He takes some chances yes. But when hes back (which is more often than memory would have you believe) he plays fairly solid. He is also one of the best communicators in the NHL, always directing traffic and helping organize the defense. Combine that with his skating, size, puck protection, ability to win battles and passing ability his ability to get the puck and get it out (key componants of defense) make him valuable in the d zone as well.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Claude sounds like he's at the end of his rope in this press conference, just sour and pissy. Basically saying he's fed up with this roster and the group of players.

 

[umwoz]

Noel is on borrowed time IMO. Not saying he is the definitive problem... however there comes a time where that isn't really what matters.(see: Ruff in Buffalo)

 

[garret9]

When you take risks, you are sometimes going to get burnt. I still think Buff's creation > Buff's risk and this would be even more apparent on a stronger coached and goaltended team.

 

[Guerzy]

Is Noel going off the deep end? I must go listen to these soundbites or read whatever it is he's saying. Sounds interesting.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Buff defensive game is vastly underrated. He takes some chances yes. But when hes back (which is more often than memory would have you believe) he plays fairly solid. He is also one of the best communicators in the NHL, always directing traffic and helping organize the defense. Combine that with his skating, size, puck protection, ability to win battles and passing ability his ability to get the puck and get it out (key componants of defense) make him valuable in the d zone as well.

Precisely. A lot of people undervalue 60 point defensemen, like they somehow grow on trees. There's 2 or 3 of them in the league and Buff is one of them. Players with those kinds of numbers tend to play a lot less defense because they aren't hemmed down in their zone. And like you said, when Buff IS playing in his zone, he's still very valuable.

He's not Weber, Chara or Suter but there are about 200 other defensemen in the league who aren't those guys either. He's in the next tier of #1 D which is made up of Subban, Karlsson, Keith, Yandle, OEL, Shattenkirk. Measured against those guys, I think Buff comes out really well.

 

[Guerzy]

Reading these comments from both Noel and Wheeler, I've heard this before. All of it.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Watched Noel's presser. I feel for him, he looks restless, exhausted and out of answers, yet still scrambling to try and fix this. You can see he's trying to keep his emotions in check but at times when facing some questions he let's his colors show, he's a frustrated man. I sympathize with him, I feel for him, I think Claude could coach in the NHL but he needs a different group than the one he has here in Winnipeg. At the end of the day my hunch is he will never be the coach (for whatever the reasons) to get it done here with this team, core group, etc. I just fail to see the sun rising with things the way they currently stand.

 

[Guardian17]

Yep Chicago was a dead franchise for about a decade. Absolutely miserable season in 2003 where they finished with a measly 59 pts. In 2005 they only had 26 wins & 65 pts. In 2006, 31 wins and 71 pts. Missed the playoffs again in 2007 with 88 pts. Then a dramatic turnaround in 2008 where they mustered 104 pts. The emergence and breakouts of Toews and Kane resurrected that franchise from the dead.

Yep.

Even the Boston Bruins were terrible during the same time period.

 

[pucka lucka]

Reading these comments from both Noel and Wheeler, I've heard this before. All of it.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Watched Noel's presser. I feel for him, he looks restless, exhausted and out of answers, yet still scrambling to try and fix this. I sympathize with him, but at the end of the day my hunch is he will never be the coach (for whatever the reasons) to get it done here with this team, core group, etc. I just fail to see the sun rising with things the way they currently stand.

It's just media speak. I think it perpetuates the myth that professional hockey is all about intangibles. Effort, compete level etc.

 

[pucka lucka]

Reading these comments from both Noel and Wheeler, I've heard this before. All of it.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Watched Noel's presser. I feel for him, he looks restless, exhausted and out of answers, yet still scrambling to try and fix this. You can see he's trying to keep his emotions in check but at times when facing some questions he let's his colors show, he's a frustrated man. I sympathize with him, I feel for him, I think Claude could coach in the NHL but he needs a different group than the one he has here in Winnipeg. At the end of the day my hunch is he will never be the coach (for whatever the reasons) to get it done here with this team, core group, etc. I just fail to see the sun rising with things the way they currently stand.

I agree. I think Noel is better suited to a team with much better fundamentals over our speed and skill on the rush. round peg square hole.

 

[Grind]

The thing that people consistently delete from this very argument is the fact that Buff is not a 60 point elite defenseman that plays well defensively.

When you look at a player you have to add up all the parts of his play to get a true assessment. On the outside you see a one of a kind dynamic point producer. That is what makes him marketable. For the Jets, unfortunately that is only half of the story.

It's like saying that if say Setoguchi and Datsyuk produce the same amount of points they are somehow equal. We all know that is crazy.

You have to look at the NET gain of a player to a team and IMHO Dustin Byfuglien's net gain is far less that what trading him for the Schenn's would be.

while i agree his defense is not Elite...but Buff is definitly at worst a NET #1 dman (as in top 30 in the league).

 

[Positive]

Yep.

Even the Boston Bruins were terrible during the same time period.

I like to believe that dynasties and perennial slumps in the NHL are cyclic. Such is the way of parity leagues. Oilers and Islanders of the 80's. Hawks and Bruins of the 2010's. In another time it would have been inconceivable for the Oilers and Islanders to be seen as bottom feeders. Ane no one would think LA would ever win a cup, and that the Penguins without Mario and Jagr would never amount to anything. So perhaps someday our time will come.

 

[pucka lucka]

while i agree his defense is not Elite...but Buff is definitly at worst a NET #1 dman (as in top 30 in the league).

Familiarity breeds contempt. I think people misinterpret the value of Buff based on those mistakes everyone sees. What they miss is the possession numbers and creation of offence is a net positive after you include his deficiencies. The mistakes stand out in memory. The possession is a cumulative effect which the human brain is not very good at tracking.

 

[Grind]

Familiarity breeds contempt. I think people misinterpret the value of Buff based on those mistakes everyone sees. What they miss is the possession numbers and creation of offence is a net positive after you include his deficiencies. The mistakes stand out in memory. The possession is a cumulative effect which the human brain is not very good at tracking.

high fives for agreement!


Also, regarding noels quotes...i'm so done with this.



Like i said before. This teams record is better then the team is, and that's pretty bad. we've been hot garbage under Noel this year, and it's time something gave.


At this point, i hope we look like garbage for the next 10 games...actually no, i hope we play good tomorrow because i'm going, but then look like garbage for 10 games strait so it's obvious beyond reproach that the season is lost and we need to maek some moves.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Pre-Game thread is here...