Welcome to (failed) TED Talk - TED is dead.

[The Feckless Puck]

I’ll disagree with you there. Having lived in both the west and east valleys recently, the vibe in that area is so different from west gate. There’s already a lot of restaurants/bars around the area, and it’s right off the highway. 20 minute drive from pretty much everywhere else in the east valley.

See, this is where we go down the rabbit hole. I'm sure the vibe is lovely and it's pretty accessible... to folks in the East Valley. So is Westgate... for the West Valley. If you continue along this line of reasoning, eventually you'll have to get to the argument that it's more important to be convenient to East Valley fans than West Valley. Which, in fairness, has been the implied argument of the franchise and the NHL itself for about 15 years now.

I just personally think it's hypocritical in the extreme for folks in Chandler, Gilbert, and Mesa to say that Fiesta Mall would make a great location for the Coyotes after spending so many years savaging Glendale as being out in the boondocks of the West Valley. Because vibe or not, restaurants and bars notwithstanding, Fiesta Mall is in the boondocks too by the same logic. The further out you get from the center of Phoenix, the less general appeal the team will have. That principle has been proven in more markets than this one.

A problem that compounds all of this is Sinclair and Bally Sports. Their bankruptcy is going to absolutely cripple the TV audience for Coyotes games next season and possibly beyond.

 

[Edenjung]

They made it to the WCF in 2012 and were dead last in the NHL in attendance.

Too many old people.
Or let my phrase it another way, the wrong Kind of old people.

And of course Bad Marketing.

I just personally think it's hypocritical in the extreme for folks in Chandler, Gilbert, and Mesa to say that Fiesta Mall would make a great location for the Coyotes after spending so many years savaging Glendale as being out in the boondocks of the West Valley. Because vibe or not, restaurants and bars notwithstanding, Fiesta Mall is in the boondocks too by the same logic. The further out you get from the center of Phoenix, the less general appeal the team will have. That principle has been proven in more markets than this one.

Easy solution. We build a flying Arena.
Then we use Star Trek beaming technology to move people to the Arena.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

The next option is Fiesta Mall and work with the current redevelopment team.

.... the vibe in that area is so different from west gate. There’s already a lot of restaurants/bars around the area, and it’s right off the highway. 20 minute drive from pretty much everywhere else in the east valley.

FWIW, Mesa has been trying to get something started there for a while, the "Fiesta District". For many, many years, the Bennigan's on the NW corner of Southern/Alma School and it's strip mall sat there abandoned, surrounded by fences, but during the pandemic that changed and now that looks like this:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

same spot 8 years ago

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

and 16 years ago

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

I worked in that tall building in the SE corner for a couple of years in the 90s, and went to that Bennigans all the time, and have seen the whole cycle from bustling mall to abandoned retail space to sputtering attempts at renovation, which is what they're still in now....but....drop TED on top of the Fiesta Mall site...and....?

Fiesta District | City of Mesa

 

[Jakey53]

To borrow your own well-worn phrase, you don't know that.

You don't know that he is.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I wonder if there would be any sort of creative way that the City of Phoenix could work with Meruelo on the VMC and State Fairgrounds area to completely renovate and turn that area around.

As a reclamation project it'd have appeal for the City and, maybe with the right incentives, could still work for Meruelo as a revenue generator. And if they could keep the outside aesthetic of the VMC as a kind of "historic landmark" thing while building something state of the art, even better.

 

[Baby Doaner]

I wonder if there would be any sort of creative way that the City of Phoenix could work with Meruelo on the VMC and State Fairgrounds area to completely renovate and turn that area around.

As a reclamation project it'd have appeal for the City and, maybe with the right incentives, could still work for Meruelo as a revenue generator. And if they could keep the outside aesthetic of the VMC as a kind of "historic landmark" thing while building something state of the art, even better.

Doubtful. Grand ave is a logistical nightmare. Plus, that’s where the state fair is located at.

 

[Edenjung]

@The Feckless Puck
That came to my mind Yesterday. Why Not Go to the state fair and demolish the veterans memorial colliseum. That place is from 69.
And would be a good location for an Arena.
But for that you would have to Work with the Arizona Exposition and State Fair Board. And i don't know If they are state or City.

 

[moosemeister]

Is there any way AM can get the Fiesta Mall location without a vote? Ex: he pays for the demolition of the mall.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

@The Feckless Puck
That came to my mind Yesterday. Why Not Go to the state fair and demolish the veterans memorial colliseum. That place is from 69.
And would be a good location for an Arena.
But for that you would have to Work with the Arizona Exposition and State Fair Board. And i don't know If they are state or City.

I believe they're a state agency. So there would be some hoops to jump through. Not to mention that the surrounding area is not the nicest in the world anymore - a lot of run down housing and industrial areas.

But, if we're fever-dreaming this, a reclamation project in this area would be a) centrally located, b) a historic landmark revival, c) open to plenty of non-hockey entertainment options including the State Fair, and d) reversing course on what is turning into something of an eyesore for the metro area.

Is there any way AM can get the Fiesta Mall location without a vote? Ex: he pays for the demolition of the mall.

Don't think so.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

As someone who didn't grow up here and moved here, man this city has a shit ton of abandoned malls

 

[Jakey53]

I, for one, was criticizing them the entire time. Starting on February 4th when Randy Keating made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and I started stalking their Google and Meta spend and was alarmed all along by what seemed like absolutely negligent advertising mismanagement. I’ve been harping on it here for three months.

You want that younger demographic? Digital is the way. They ignored digital completely. I’ve spent significantly more promoting a summer tutoring program at a single college campus. I’ve spent more promoting a student run coffee shop. I’ve spent more promoting a new school mascot.

Yes it was a landslide victory. But the margin ended up being less than 5,000 votes. That’s it. 5,000 people. That’s nothing.

But not all of those 5000 would vote yes. The young did not vote, or care to vote, and the old "dummies" voted. To make up those 5000 votes I'm guessing you would need 20000 or more votes. That's substantial.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

Is there any way AM can get the Fiesta Mall location without a vote? Ex: he pays for the demolition of the mall.

I think the issue is that it would have to be re-zoned, which goes to a vote regardless

 

[RemoAZ]

The worst part of this whole thing if they don't relocate is we have to continue to hear all this negative shit for who knows how long. You guys that go to the threads outside of our board must like to torture yourselves.

Selfishly the upside is it's not the Westsider's fault! You won't see me trashing Tempe or the East Valley for voting no though. Most of you won't agree with me just like what I said about the Tempe project but there are enough blue hairs in every city that will vote no to anything that has the term "tax" associated with it that no city in this state will approve a project that goes to a vote.

 

[LAIslanderFan]

They made it to the WCF in 2012 and were dead last in the NHL in attendance.

It doesn't happen overnight, it takes a few years of consistency. When I first moved to LA the Kings would sell 8000 tickets a night. You could purchase great seats and a real bargain price.
Then Gretzky came on the scene, they started winning and it all changed.
Phoenix also added a million more residents since then.

The Coyotes also had interim ownership at the time. You don't think that had any affect on the fan base. Those were some bad years from an ownership perspective.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

It was going to a referendum no matter what Tempe did.... full stop.

Unless of course you'd rather see a load of lawsuits filed and the project tied up for months, if not years.

The courts are more favorable to projects than referendums.

 

[TheLegend]

The worst part of this whole thing if they don't relocate is we have to continue to hear all this negative shit for who knows how long. You guys that go to the threads outside of our board must like to torture yourselves.

It isn't torture.... it's living outside the bubble.

Selfishly the upside is it's not the Westsider's fault! You won't see me trashing Tempe or the East Valley for voting no though. Most of you won't agree with me just like what I said about the Tempe project but there are enough blue hairs in every city that will vote no to anything that has the term "tax" associated with it that no city in this state will approve a project that goes to a vote.

The East vs West squabbles has always been bullshit. Something that belongs more on an episode of South Park.

 

[rt]

@The Feckless Puck
That came to my mind Yesterday. Why Not Go to the state fair and demolish the veterans memorial colliseum. That place is from 69.
And would be a good location for an Arena.
But for that you would have to Work with the Arizona Exposition and State Fair Board. And i don't know If they are state or City.

I think it’s a bit land locked in terms of additional development opportunity. And while there isn’t a toxic dump to clean up, there’s a lot of property to purchase.

This is me speculating. I don’t know any of that.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

It was going to a referendum no matter what Tempe did.... full stop.

Unless of course you'd rather see a load of lawsuits filed and the project tied up for months, if not years.

Disagree. The reason for the referendums was basically the tax abatement and plow back. Structure it differently and no referendum. Pay the team to clean up the landfill rather than give them the tax relief.

 

[Sciamachy]

Kellers agent on PHNX:

"This has been uncertain for far too long, and now there is a real urgency on our clients behalf to have clarity
...
He deserves to be in an organization that has stability and that is pursuing the same thing he is which is excellence.
...
Meeting with the Coyotes later today. There needs to be some real concrete plans, not hoping plans, not maybe plans. This has to come to a head shortly and I'm sure other agents feel the same for their clients."

 

[RemoAZ]

It doesn't happen overnight, it takes a few years of consistency. When I first moved to LA the Kings would sell 8000 tickets a night. You could purchase great seats and a real bargain price.
Then Gretzky came on the scene, they started winning and it all changed.
Phoenix also added a million more residents since then.

Anyone that attended that run, and a lot here did, knows it was an electric atmosphere. Of course they had no shot to keep it going with all the drama they were neck deep in. Lightning in a bottle unfortunately.

 

[rt]

I think the issue is that it would have to be re-zoned, which goes to a vote regardless

That’s why this was on the ballot. Everyone thought they were voting to give or deny permission for a billionaire to help himself to their tax dollars. Nope. It was dump versus development. Dump won.

 

[RemoAZ]

Kellers agent on PHNX:

"This has been uncertain for far too long, and now there is a real urgency on our clients behalf to have clarity
...
He deserves to be in an organization that has stability and that is pursuing the same thing he is which is excellence.
...
Meeting with the Coyotes later today. There needs to be some real concrete plans, not hoping plans, not maybe plans. This has to come to a head shortly and I'm sure other agents feel the same for their clients."

This is exactly what we need. More drama from another angle. Lovely!

 

[Tanic]

I thought the drive-in theater idea was the plat of land by where Big Surf used to be. Was that reservation land? (I do vaguely remember an Ak-Sar-Ben smoke shop on the corner by the drive-in when I was in high school.)

Good one! Ak-Sar-Ben is Nebraska spelled backwards. The smoke store is On-Auk-Mor owned by SRPMIC.

 

[rt]

Kellers agent on PHNX:

"This has been uncertain for far too long, and now there is a real urgency on our clients behalf to have clarity
...
He deserves to be in an organization that has stability and that is pursuing the same thing he is which is excellence.
...
Meeting with the Coyotes later today. There needs to be some real concrete plans, not hoping plans, not maybe plans. This has to come to a head shortly and I'm sure other agents feel the same for their clients."

Okay, so Keller is gone. We need a world-class defense prospect for him. Who desperately needs offense? The Islanders? Can we get Noah Dobson?

 

[TheLegend]

Disagree. The reason for the referendums was basically the tax abatement and plow back. Structure it differently and no referendum. Pay the team to clean up the landfill rather than give them the tax relief.

You can referendum anything involving a city decision. And the bar is extremely low.

In courts..... the FAFO rule comes into play.