Welcome to (failed) TED Talk - TED is dead.

[The Feckless Puck]

Lol just stop it, okay? Because that fantasy light rail stops a few hundred yards from my house and goes right to Coyotes games.

It would be like a Suns fan now living in those W6 towers in Tempe. Casual stroll to Valley Metro, dropped off a block from Footprint, after the game metro comes right to the sidewalk picks you up whisks you home.

Having had this exact scenario in Boston/New Hampshire, I sincerely hope it happens for you. You would not believe how much easier and more fun it is to go to games when you can just hop a train or subway instead of sitting in your car. Hell, the commuter train system in Utah Valley is one of the very few reasons why I think Salt Lake City could actually draw for the NHL.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm very interested in the fact that Phoenix isn't going to drop the lawsuit against Tempe until Tempe ditches the IGA so that Sky Harbor can build out its runways. Man, is Tempe ever up a creek now.

And Meruelo is no longer obligated to cover those expenses.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I’d like to look at this unemotionally. It seems likely to me that Awhatukee, Chandler, Tempe, Paradise Valley, Scottsdale, Mesa and Gilbert are the preferred suburbs to cater to, no? I could be wrong. And if I am, I hope you’ll show me that I am.

I am actually happy for you. I wasn't being sarcastic. It'll be nice for you to have the team close after years of it being far away. I'm sure you were the recipient of some unwelcome comments from west-siders when the team was in Westgate about sucking it up and making the drive, because if human nature tells us anything it's that people are unsympathetic to inconvenience if it's not happening directly to them.

There is nothing, though, about Ahwatukee, Chandler, Tempe, Gilbert, or Mesa that makes them more palatable than Peoria, Glendale, Surprise, Avondale, or Goodyear. It's all just people, just in different locations. The exceptions are probably Scottsdale and Paradise Valley, because that's where the wealthiest people are and where a lot of upscale businesses are headquartered. It's also critically where the "hockey community" of transplants lives and does their hockeying. So convenience for them is a premium for the team and the league.

I've lived in the Valley for over 40 years now, and it's funny because, when I was living in Scottsdale, Mesa got all the same bullshit about its local government and ambience as Glendale has gotten on this forum over the years. If you were Mormon, Mesa was the Mecca of the Valley, but if you weren't, it was the sad buttcrack of the East Valley according to the cognoscenti of the golf course set (look, the city isn't called "Snobsdale" for nothing). For people used to PV or Fashion Square Mall, Fiesta Mall was a maintenance shed.

So, as far away as Mesa is from where I live now, I still think that if the Coyotes build at the Fiesta Mall site, it'll be a good thing - a long-needed jewel to bolster a city that needs one desperately. And obviously, you Chandler and Gilbert residents will enjoy finally having a major entertainment destination that isn't an annoyingly long and claustrophobic drive away.

The only thing I'm not here for, generally, is the implied "More people like us than like you" sentiment that always accompanies these discussions. For all else, I'm being practical, and Mesa is far more preferable than SLC, KC, or Houston.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Having had this exact scenario in Boston/New Hampshire, I sincerely hope it happens for you. You would not believe how much easier and more fun it is to go to games when you can just hop a train or subway instead of sitting in your car. Hell, the commuter train system in Utah Valley is one of the very few reasons why I think Salt Lake City could actually draw for the NHL.

Hehe thanks...but...

I think I've used this analogy here before, but it's like that scene from The Americans. Nina gets caught being a KGB double agent and is flown back to Moscow to be tried and executed. As she sits in prison, she has a dream where her appeal is upheld and her scientist friend is released and everything works out...then she wakes up, gets marched down the hall, told her appeal was denied and BLAM!

That's what this week feels like.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Hehe thanks...but...

I think I've used this analogy here before, but it's like that scene from The Americans. Nina gets caught being a KGB double agent and is flown back to Moscow to be tried and executed. As she sits in prison, she has a dream where her appeal is upheld and her scientist friend is released and everything works out...then she wakes up, gets marched down the hall, told her appeal was denied and BLAM!

That's what this week feels like.

Reminds me of that Monty Python sketch about the biking tourist who gets arrested by Communists and is sentenced to a firing squad. Then he wakes up and he's at home and his mother's house. "It was all a dream!" he says, and his mother replies, "No, dear, this is the dream. You're still in your cell!"

It's just going to get worse for all of us the longer the actual team stays silent. They're not talking to anyone (except maybe Craig). It's a bad look, and it makes me nervous.

 

[TheLegend]

For those curious how that Coyotes poll came out...... over 70% of over 100k votes went to Scottsdale.

 

[Jakey53]

Net worth does not necessarily mean liquid assets. It depends on his holdings.

$8 Billion NET WORTH. You use your assets for a loan.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

So, do they drop the conversations with Mesa now? The fans have spoken.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

For those curious how that Coyotes poll came out...... over 70% of over 100k votes went to Scottsdale.

Voters in Scottsdale still upset about Los Arcos...

So, do they drop the conversations with Mesa now? The fans have spoken.

Well, two things about Scottsdale... 1) the transplants aren't generally loyal to the team, just the sport, and 2) even if the voters approved it, precedent says that the local government will overrule it.

Stick with Mesa. Only Scottsdale-adjacent area that might work is on the res.

 

[Tanic]

For those curious how that Coyotes poll came out...... over 70% of over 100k votes went to Scottsdale.

But the "Scottsdale" sites aren't in Scottsdale, which is probably a good thing since the Scottsdale city council told the Coyotes to take a hike 25 years ago.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

So, do they drop the conversations with Mesa now? The fans have spoken.

No, because Scottsdale won't do it.

But there's a reason that when things like the Super Bowl are here and played nowhere near Scottsdale, most of the parties, events, and the like are held in Scottsdale.

 

[Tanic]

I'm very interested in the fact that Phoenix isn't going to drop the lawsuit against Tempe until Tempe ditches the IGA so that Sky Harbor can build out its runways. Man, is Tempe ever up a creek now.

Tempe began this war against the airport in the 1980s and Phoenix is going to finish it in 2023. The dump will remain a dump.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

No, because Scottsdale won't do it.

But there's a reason that when things like the Super Bowl are here and played nowhere near Scottsdale, most of the parties, events, and the like are held in Scottsdale.

My point was why have the stupid poll to begin with if the results aren't even going to be considered?

Edit: Or maybe not even a real possibility?

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

My point was why have the stupid poll to begin with if the results aren't even going to be considered?

I agree. It was a weird thing to see pop up on Twitter.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I agree. It was a weird thing to see pop up on Twitter.

Now we know that people strongly prefer Scottsdale, but the best plan looks like it's in Mesa... Awkward! lol

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I have noticed that 2 Gila River casinos in the east valley get listed as being in "Chandler"

 

[Tanic]

I have noticed that 2 Gila River casinos in the east valley get listed as being in "Chandler"

All the casinos pretend to be in an adjacent city, except Desert Diamond "west valley" which won't acknowledge that they are surrounded by Glendale.

 

[Tom Polakis]

...There is nothing, though, about Ahwatukee, Chandler, Tempe, Gilbert, or Mesa that makes them more palatable than Peoria, Glendale, Surprise, Avondale, or Goodyear. It's all just people, just in different locations. The exceptions are probably Scottsdale and Paradise Valley, because that's where the wealthiest people are and where a lot of upscale businesses are headquartered. It's also critically where the "hockey community" of transplants lives and does their hockeying. So convenience for them is a premium for the team and the league...

Man, I hate to get into the inevitable "East Valley vs. West Valley" argument again, but attending games is expensive, and it takes disposable income to attend them. This contour plot (I hate the term "heat map"!) shows the rough distribution of wealth in the Valley. Green and dark green are the wealthiest. I've highlighted the locations of the Glendale and ill-fated Tempe sites, as well as Fiesta Mall. I think it's more than Scottsdale and Paradise Valley that are the exceptions regarding wealth.

The concentration of wealth in Tempe in particular is all south of the 60 -- the same people who voted down the propositions. I consider Tempe south of the 60 to be nothing more than west Chandler, but them I'm just an academic snob.

Here's the site with the wealth map.
Phoenix, AZ-Household Income | Red Paw Technologies

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

The more I hear coming out of Mesa, the better I feel about it as a legit possibility. Fingers crossed.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

The concentration of wealth in Tempe in particular is all south of the 60 -- the same people who voted down the propositions. I consider Tempe south of the 60 to be nothing more than west Chandler, but them I'm just an academic snob.

You've actually got it backwards, the southern-most part of Tempe was more sympathetic to the Coyotes than the northern part

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Man, I hate to get into the inevitable "East Valley vs. West Valley" argument again, but attending games is expensive, and it takes disposable income to attend them.

I spent roughly the same amount of money that Alex Meruelo did on the vote campaign on 15 years' worth of season tickets. I know exactly how expensive it is.

Correlation does not equate to causation. Heat maps are nice graphics but they say nothing about who will spend discretionary income on hockey tickets or where they're more likely to live. Wealth /= hockey passion. The empty seats at Mullett this season are as good an indicator as a heat map about that particular point.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

I don’t know where that 75% number comes from or what it means. I’m assuming it means “a large majority of Coyotes fans are on the east side”. And if that’s true, then it must also be true that the 101/60 area is “closer” than Westgate for most Coyotes fans, right?

I’d like to look at this unemotionally. It seems likely to me that Awhatukee, Chandler, Tempe, Paradise Valley, Scottsdale, Mesa and Gilbert are the preferred suburbs to cater to, no? I could be wrong. And if I am, I hope you’ll show me that I am.

The number is more like 85-90%

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The number is more like 85-90%

Source?

 

[AZDesertKnight]

Source?

My source isn’t a public source to cite. So take it for what it’s worth to you.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

My source isn’t a public source to cite. So take it for what it’s worth to you.

If it's a team source, then it's coming from the same folks who brought you the whole, "We have a bulletproof Plan B ready to go if this fails!" thing.