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NFL GDT: Week 3

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Filthy Dangles said:
Even if Vikings would somehow be open to trading Cousins anywhere close to this early, the Jets 1st and 2nd round picks this year are not tradeable as they’re tied up by the Rodgers trade.

Jets really can’t do much at QB
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No chance in hell does ~10 games of Kirk net a 1st or 2nd round pick in the NFL.

This isn't the equivalent of an NHL TDL move. 1st/2nd round picks in the NFL are immediate starters, NHL 1st/2nd rounders are projects.

Kirk would go for a 3rd / 4th at most IMO.
 
TheGreenTBer said:
@StreetHawk is my POC for all cap questions
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Hit up Spotrac and see. I can't foresee Denver being able to trade Russ, thus they will be on the hook for all of the guaranteed money.

On straight cut, he's going to run Denver $85 mill. So, it can be like $30-35 mill in 2024 then $50-55 mill in 2025.

His base salary of $17 mill for 2024 along with his option bonus of $22 mill is guaranteed. And his 2025 base salary of $37 mill would become guaranteed in the first week of the 2024 league year in March 2024.

So, cutting him early means that they eat the $39 mill in cash that they owe him. Plus, $30 mill in unallocated signing bonus of the $50 mill he got. That's $69 mill. He got $20 mill option bonus in 2023, which would have $16 mill left on it to allocate to Denver's cap, which is how we arrive at the $85 mill amount of dead cap space if they cut Wilson.

I can't see a team trading for Russ unless he redoes his contract so that the 2025 base salary doesn't become fully guaranteed. It's worse than Carr's which only activated for the upcoming season. Russ would activate a year in advance.

For reference, Rams are eating $76 mill in dead cap space in 2023 for Ramsey, Robinson, Floyd, Wager, etc.

Denver current has $1.4 mill in dead cap for 2024 year. But, Denver will have its work cut out since they are also $14 mill over the salary cap with Russ expected to count $35.4 mill. Which would stay roughly that number if they did the dead cap over 2 years in 2024 and 2025. But, that's $50 mill give or take in dead money in 2025.

* Edit. Spotrac shows a 2025 cut would cost Denver $49.6 mill on Russ which contradicts the $37 mill in 2025 base salary being guaranteed on the 5th day of the 2024 league year. Maybe they meant 2025 league year for that, otherwise, they should be adding the $37 mill onto the $49.6 mill dead cap making it like $86 mill.
 
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Mr Misunderstood said:
No chance in hell does ~10 games of Kirk net a 1st or 2nd round pick in the NFL.

This isn't the equivalent of an NHL TDL move. 1st/2nd round picks in the NFL are immediate starters, NHL 1st/2nd rounders are projects.

Kirk would go for a 3rd / 4th at most IMO.
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I think you are sorely mistaken on that. Vikings would not punt away a season and throw away one of the more productive passers in the NFL for anything but a pretty high draft pick
 
f*** it just bring in Wentz even if he's gonna be ice cold and learn on the fly....he'll throw some picks but at least he'll stand in the pocket and make some throws down the field too.

Wilson can't be salvaged, you can see it and feel it watching him on TV. every dropback is bated breath by everyone watching, he's trying so hard not to make a mistake he can't see or do anything out there.
 
Filthy Dangles said:
f*** it just bring in Wentz even if he's gonna be ice cold and learn on the fly....he'll throw some picks but at least he'll stand in the pocket and make some throws down the field too.

Wilson can't be salvaged, you can see it and feel it watching him on TV. every dropback is bated breath by everyone watching, he's trying so hard not to make a mistake he can't see or do anything out there.
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Ownership and the front office don’t want to have egg on their face because they refuse to say they made a mistake.
 
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EpochLink said:
Ownership and the front office don’t want to have egg on their face because they refuse to say they made a mistake.
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Honestly, there's only a handful of teams who are happy with their QB. But, you are hard pressed to find an upgrade.

Teams don't have the time to spend to slow play their young QB. If you draft a QB when you need one. HC and GM get 3 years max to return to the PO if they took over a bad team. A bad team is going to have either a poor OL or limited weapons. Trading up for a QB is going to eat away at your assets to build along with the QB. Bears gave up a 1st which could have been an OT last season and this season to help Fields. That's the price to trade up for a QB. Add to it, how many QBs are truly ready for the NFL these days. Lots of them leave now by their RS SO or true JR season. QBs get pushed up the draft and while they can throw and look good vs air, different story when they have to read coverages and go through their progressions.

Same time, NFL teams have the out to walk away since the commitment is $30 million for a top 3 pick, $20 mill give or take for top 10. $13 mill for 11-20 pick, and under $12 mill for #21 and later for 4 years. If you don't deliver, the new regime reboots it.
 
Vikings would get conditional pick(s) based on performance. They would not get a 1st I don’t think, but a 3rd that becomes a 2nd that could be 1st-like value. I could see that. But not a 1st outright. Wilson himself would likely be in the trade too.

If the Titans are gone, that’s much more likely.
 
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TheGreenTBer said:
Even if that's true if I'm Saleh and I'm fighting for my job I don't give a shit.

Zach Wilson does NOT give the Jets the best chance to win. He already lost the locker room last year and everyone knows it. The very second that Rodgers went down the Jets should have been calling every single team, every single available QB, and exhausted every single option. Somebody, anybody. They might not get it done, but there would at least be hope.

Playing Wilson is, make no mistake, punting on the entire season. Period. And there's too much goddamn talent on that roster to justify that approach.
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Unfortunately, the sport is a business first and the bottom line matters too, even if it means suffering an "intangible" like losing games; the suits care about other things that fans don't care about. As the major sport with the least amount of labor leverage amongst its players, the owners VERY MUCH don't want to give even a sliver of empowerment to the players or the opportunity to claim "unjust termination/blackballing". And that means giving high-round (or other notorious) bad QBs every opportunity to succeed OR fail.
The ownership is willing to eat weeks of Zach Wilson being shit because of these larger businesses forces at play.

I've seen it as a Washington fan. RGIII had chances. My team sure gave Carson Wentz, a clear meathead interception machine, an absurd chance, with assets given to the point some "blackmail" from Irsay might have went on. Haskins was third stringer on Pittsburgh and likely would still be floating on some team if he wasn't dead, though not at Pitt because Pickett was their guy.
 
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Spring in Fialta said:
That's a load of crap. The Jets are under no (legal) obligation to play him and if he hadn't seen a snap once this year there's nothing the players union could have done about it.

Saleh is a coach, not a fan. He knows Zach Wilson sucks. He knows his players think Zach Wilson sucks. His players know that he knows and they know that he knows Zach Wilson sucks.

Him coming out and stating that does nothing but give the smallest satisfaction to some fans.
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It's a business and leaving no room for speculation or claims of unjust labor treatment is very much a real matter for these owners.

Any monkey can tell Wilson is a meathead, but the statements by the likes of Saleh are not the product of blind stupidity, but precisely these other "wins" the owners want against the players.

The ownership cartel can be in a position of weakness if one says "I wasn't given a chance to show I could improve". But if they have the hard evidence, not character because that's pretty irrelevant in this sport, the owner can simply point out the stats and or video and say, "You've proven you sucked".

That's why even Jamarcus got 31 games.
 
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Mr Misunderstood said:
No chance in hell does ~10 games of Kirk net a 1st or 2nd round pick in the NFL.

This isn't the equivalent of an NHL TDL move. 1st/2nd round picks in the NFL are immediate starters, NHL 1st/2nd rounders are projects.

Kirk would go for a 3rd / 4th at most IMO.
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Maybe in the offseason or under normal circumstances but this isn’t normal circumstances. The Jets are desperate and the Vikings hold all the cards in this trade. I doubt highly the Vikings will tank their season this early without a high asking price. Besides, how much are the Jets willing to keep throwing away picks/assets for another QB attempt? They need their high picks even their 3rd/4th rounders because they are in rebuild mode again. The Jets offense is a joke, starting with that offensive line. I don’t care who plays QB, you’re not winning with that line. They are even questionable at RB, TE and WR. This is not a good offensive team and I am not sure why everyone thought Rodgers would save them. The defense on the otherhand is probably top 5, maybe top 3.
 
SirClintonPortis said:
It's a business and leaving no room for speculation or claims of unjust labor treatment is very much a real matter for these owners.

Any monkey can tell Wilson is a meathead, but the statements by the likes of Saleh are not the product of blind stupidity, but precisely these other "wins" the owners want against the players.

The ownership cartel can be in a position of weakness if one says "I wasn't given a chance to show I could improve". But if they have the hard evidence, not character because that's pretty irrelevant in this sport, the owner can simply point out the stats and or video and say, "You've proven you sucked".

That's why even Jamarcus got 31 games.
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JaMarcus Russell got 31 games because he was 1st overall pick the Raiders had invested on and had a massive stake in seeing through. Nothing else.
 
SirClintonPortis said:
Unfortunately, the sport is a business first and the bottom line matters too, even if it means suffering an "intangible" like losing games; the suits care about other things that fans don't care about. As the major sport with the least amount of labor leverage amongst its players, the owners VERY MUCH don't want to give even a sliver of empowerment to the players or the opportunity to claim "unjust termination/blackballing". And that means giving high-round (or other notorious) bad QBs every opportunity to succeed OR fail.
The ownership is willing to eat weeks of Zach Wilson being shit because of these larger businesses forces at play.

I've seen it as a Washington fan. RGIII had chances. My team sure gave Carson Wentz, a clear meathead interception machine, an absurd chance, with assets given to the point some "blackmail" from Irsay might have went on. Haskins was third stringer on Pittsburgh and likely would still be floating on some team if he wasn't dead, though not at Pitt because Pickett was their guy.
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So, what you're saying is that the order to play Wilson is coming from the top and they don't care at all about actually competing, but are tanking the season because of the Rodgers injury.

I might disagree with your reasoning but I do think that above point is correct. It's going to backfire for them badly though.
 
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