Proposal: Weegar for Lekkerimaki

Peter Griffin

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I mean, I don't know if you really have time to wait for them if you're trying to win a Cup. Doesn't your window basically end when JT Miller is no longer a great first line player? I'd put money on that happening before Willander or Petterson are top-4 D...
I think the next 3 years, while Hughes is still under contract, are probably the Canucks’ best shot at getting a cup. I think it’s more likely they try to trade their upcoming 1st’s+ to land immediate help over Lekk and Willander though. But all depends on what they’re looking for as certain players will require top prospects as part of a deal.
 
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Johnsie19

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The blueprint for Cup winners right now is two elite forwards. Barkov and Tkachuk, Mackinnon and Rantanen, Kucherov and Point. With Pettersson and current Miller, the Canucks do have the two elite forwards necessary for true Cup contention. Once Miller declines to "just a 65-70 point player", they won't. So that's kind of a soft window that I think Canucks management would be wise to keep in the back of their mind when constructing their team over the next few years.

Having depth is great, but almost invariably superstars win Cups.
Miller certainly needs to be elite for at least 3 more yrs because of the Canucks dead cap from the OEL buyout. After that if Miller is making 8 mil and scoring 75 points thats by no means a back breaker. They'll need others to step up internally or find some help via trade FA but ya I don't see a necessary fall off just because Miller doesn't put up 90+.

Vegas and St. Louis both won in the last 6 yrs neither had a top 15 fwd.
 

Johnsie19

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Think other managers are going to wanna see more of Lekkerimaki playing in NA before they’d put this much value on him. He had a few good shifts in his handful of AHL games but got pushed around quite a bit too. Which isn’t out of the norm for many Swede forwards coming over.

It was a big summer for him, and it’ll be a big camp for him too. It’s probably in their best interest to send him down though. Even if he plays well.. Let him gain confidence in the AHL if he can, and then around Xmas time, revisit if he’s getting ready, or needs the entire season in Abbotsford.

If he shows really well against NHL players in the pre-season, and gets off to a good start in the AHL, then maybe a team would take him in a straight up deal like this.

As for Weegar in Vancouver? I’m not so sure he’s the Dman they’re looking for. They’re already paying big money to Hronek, who can’t carry that 2nd pairing, and Weegar is at his best when someone’s protecting him. So they’re taking a big chance, ending up stuck, with two dman (they’re paying big money to) they can’t trust with 20+ minutes every night, in a 7 game series.

I’d think Andersson would be much more their need, than Weegar, but who knows.

Much rather they target Shea Theodore. That’s a great fit.
Yup I'd agree on Lekkerimaki. I don't see any scenario where he makes the big club out of camp. We have too many quality fwds. And to be fair that is ideal for his development to play in the AHL, get PP1 and big role.

Weegar is one of the better all around dmen in the whole league. Incredible defensively and quite good offensively too. His partners have not and no do not carry him. If anything it is the other way around. And that is what I like about him. Hronek and Hughes seem to play so well together, we need someone on the 2nd pairing who can defend while also providing some offense. Rasmus Andersson is decent player but he is far worse defensively to Weegar and similar offensively while playing the right side. We need a LD as a long term target.

Shea Theodore is not what we need at all. And I love the player. We just don't need another high end offensive dman when we have Hughes and Hronek. Not to mention Theodore could easily get 10 mil on the open market if he has a strong season. He's not a good fit at all. And that without mentioning his injury history.
 

Juxtaposer

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Miller certainly needs to be elite for at least 3 more yrs because of the Canucks dead cap from the OEL buyout. After that if Miller is making 8 mil and scoring 75 points thats by no means a back breaker. They'll need others to step up internally or find some help via trade FA but ya I don't see a necessary fall off just because Miller doesn't put up 90+.

Vegas and St. Louis both won in the last 6 yrs neither had a top 15 fwd.
St. Louis would be the exception, who won on the back of a Bergeron-esque performance by O'Reilly in addition to their elite defense and a lightning-in-a-bottle showing by an otherwise mediocre goaltender in Binnington. But Vegas had Eichel and Stone, who both qualify as star forwards. Eichel put up a 97 point pace in the playoffs and Stone at a 90 point pace. They've had their injury issues which have prevented them from putting up elite regular season numbers but there's no doubt they were that caliber of player in their Cup run.

There is a path to winning a Cup without two star forwards, but it involves having an elite defensive group at all positions. Quinn Hughes is incredible overall but the Canucks do not have one legitimately elite shutdown defenseman in their organization, never mind three like Pietrangelo/Parayko/Bouwmeester.
 

jackjohnson

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I mean, I don't know if you really have time to wait for them if you're trying to win a Cup. Doesn't your window basically end when JT Miller is no longer a great first line player? I'd put money on that happening before Willander or Petterson are top-4 D...
JT can play for 4 to 5 more years imo. He seems solid and dude is in shape, definitely a tank. In 5 years, Canucks will hopefully have developed a top 6 center to replace him as Petersson will cement his place as the number 1 C for the team and Lekker develops into a top 6 forward. Keeping JT, Pettersson, Boeser, Lekker, Garland, Joshua, DeBrusk, Hughes, Hronek, Wallinder, Pettersson (D), Demko and Silovs is key to contending imo. Pending how Wallinder, Pettersson and Lekker pan out could determine how far this team will go. If they all turn out great, Canucks could be the favourites in the next 2 to 3 years.
 

jackjohnson

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St. Louis would be the exception, who won on the back of a Bergeron-esque performance by O'Reilly in addition to their elite defense and a lightning-in-a-bottle showing by an otherwise mediocre goaltender in Binnington. But Vegas had Eichel and Stone, who both qualify as star forwards. Eichel put up a 97 point pace in the playoffs and Stone at a 90 point pace. They've had their injury issues which have prevented them from putting up elite regular season numbers but there's no doubt they were that caliber of player in their Cup run.

There is a path to winning a Cup without two star forwards, but it involves having an elite defensive group at all positions. Quinn Hughes is incredible overall but the Canucks do not have one legitimately elite shutdown defenseman in their organization, never mind three like Pietrangelo/Parayko/Bouwmeester.
But they have pretty decent defensive prospects in Wallinder and Pettersson. They need to groom them to become top 4 Ds in 2 to 3 years time and I think that would be a good timeline to compete when all 3 prospects are still on ELC.
 

Juxtaposer

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JT can play for 4 to 5 more years imo. He seems solid and dude is in shape, definitely a tank. In 5 years, Canucks will hopefully have developed a top 6 center to replace him as Petersson will cement his place as the number 1 C for the team and Lekker develops into a top 6 forward. Keeping JT, Pettersson, Boeser, Lekker, Garland, Joshua, DeBrusk, Hughes, Hronek, Wallinder, Pettersson (D), Demko and Silovs is key to contending imo. Pending how Wallinder, Pettersson and Lekker pan out could determine how far this team will go. If they all turn out great, Canucks could be the favourites in the next 2 to 3 years.
But they have pretty decent defensive prospects in Wallinder and Pettersson. They need to groom them to become top 4 Ds in 2 to 3 years time and I think that would be a good timeline to compete when all 3 prospects are still on ELC.
"Decent" doesn't win Cups. If Miller declines, the Canucks forward group looks like Pettersson (a legit Cup-caliber star) and a bunch of second liners. Still a legit playoff team, but not a contender.

If Willander, EP2, and Lekkerimaki all become serious middle pairing D and a legit top-6 winger in the next three years, then that would be great for the Canucks. But my point is that I don't believe those three players will be impact NHLers before I believe Miller will no longer be a 90 point forward. Ergo, if I were the Canucks, I would absolutely dangle those three prospects to fill holes now, while Pettersson/Miller/Huges/Demko is a contender-quality core.

Again, the key to winning a Cup is having star players, surrounding them with the right roster construction, and getting lucky. I think there are too many holes on the Canucks roster to seriously consider them Cup contenders this year.
 

Ledge And Dairy

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But they have pretty decent defensive prospects in Wallinder and Pettersson. They need to groom them to become top 4 Ds in 2 to 3 years time and I think that would be a good timeline to compete when all 3 prospects are still on ELC.
Toronto tried doing that with Sandin and Liljegren. While both are NHLers now they basically wasted 5+ years of their main core waiting instead of going all in for that win now piece. Expecting them to be bonafide top 4 guys before the age of 25 is very wishful thinking.
 
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sting101

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Where are the Canucks getting the cap space?

Boeser would be a huge hole. Not moving a 40 goal front line scorer
Debrusk just signed
Hronek would be lateral but about the only player that might make some sense
Garland would be dumb considering he's the best 3rd line player in the NHL and is the huge reason the 3rd line out matches opponents. May as well let Joshua walk if that's the plan. That duo is a nightmare for teams

So Desharnais Suter OEL contract and Lekkerimaki then??

Not happening.
 

bringbacktheskate604

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I think he's talking about Weegar. He's also exaggerating in-order to make his argument sound better. We all know that 30 isn't over the hill, especially for a top pairing dman who relies on his hockey IQ rather than speed, and a $6.25m salary is extremely reasonable for the same and that $6.25m is going to look more attractive each year as the cap goes up significantly, as predicted.

He also neglects to add that Weegar would make an immediate impact on team defense whereas Willander and EP2 will have no immediate impact and may never have the same impact as Weegar years down the road.
Since trade proposals involving prospects, almost always turn into a pissing match with selling teams having no clue about the actual prospect which in this thread it seems a few flames fans not all are just talking out of their ass, how about a 2025 1st and a 2025 2nd for Rasmus? Basically the same trade that was for Hronek but to compensate for the picks likely being near the end of the rounds, the 2nd turns into a 2027 first if the nucks reach the WCF?

That way the flames can draft who they want and nuck fans can enjoy Lekkerimakki and his 45+ goal seasons along with Willander becoming the next stud two way guy out of Sweden.
 

Ledge And Dairy

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Since trade proposals involving prospects, almost always turn into a pissing match with selling teams having no clue about the actual prospect which in this thread it seems a few flames fans not all are just talking out of their ass, how about a 2025 1st and a 2025 2nd for Rasmus? Basically the same trade that was for Hronek but to compensate for the picks likely being near the end of the rounds, the 2nd turns into a 2027 first if the nucks reach the WCF?

That way the flames can draft who they want and nuck fans can enjoy Lekkerimakki and his 45+ goal seasons along with Willander becoming the next stud two way guy out of Sweden.
Andersson is worth more than that. Chychrun got a high 1st and 2 mid 2nds.
 

Johnsie19

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St. Louis would be the exception, who won on the back of a Bergeron-esque performance by O'Reilly in addition to their elite defense and a lightning-in-a-bottle showing by an otherwise mediocre goaltender in Binnington. But Vegas had Eichel and Stone, who both qualify as star forwards. Eichel put up a 97 point pace in the playoffs and Stone at a 90 point pace. They've had their injury issues which have prevented them from putting up elite regular season numbers but there's no doubt they were that caliber of player in their Cup run.

There is a path to winning a Cup without two star forwards, but it involves having an elite defensive group at all positions. Quinn Hughes is incredible overall but the Canucks do not have one legitimately elite shutdown defenseman in their organization, never mind three like Pietrangelo/Parayko/Bouwmeester.
This just in...in order to win the cup you need players to play well!

But ya Stone and Eichel were/are not top 15 guys in the NHL. OReilly wasn't either, nor was Tarasenko. Now they probably played like they were top 15 guys during that run to be fair but I don't think your point really stands that you must have two top elite fwds. Unless the bar for elite is a couple of 70-75 point players with some defensive talent.

And St Louis didn't have a dman capable of putting up 90+ points. We don't know who's going to be on the roster in the hypothetical downturn you're speaking of either. Perhaps they trade for Weegar and all of sudden they have and great d core with Hronek, Willander and whoever else.
 

Johnsie19

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"Decent" doesn't win Cups. If Miller declines, the Canucks forward group looks like Pettersson (a legit Cup-caliber star) and a bunch of second liners. Still a legit playoff team, but not a contender.

If Willander, EP2, and Lekkerimaki all become serious middle pairing D and a legit top-6 winger in the next three years, then that would be great for the Canucks. But my point is that I don't believe those three players will be impact NHLers before I believe Miller will no longer be a 90 point forward. Ergo, if I were the Canucks, I would absolutely dangle those three prospects to fill holes now, while Pettersson/Miller/Huges/Demko is a contender-quality core.

Again, the key to winning a Cup is having star players, surrounding them with the right roster construction, and getting lucky. I think there are too many holes on the Canucks roster to seriously consider them Cup contenders this year.
Every team in the league has holes. The Canucks holes right now are they need one more legit top 3 dman. Other than that you'd have to nit pick maybe that 3c isn't super strong but who knows how Suter will play and how things will shake out.

By all means I would dangle Lekkerimaki but only for a player who is a win now player with term not for a rental or even an extra yr. I wouldn't likely trade Willander for anything because he just fits what this team will need in the coming yrs.

Andersson is worth more than that. Chychrun got a high 1st and 2 mid 2nds.
To be fair. Chychrun had more value at the time of that trade than Andersson currently does. He was younger and coming off a bigger season. Hronek is a decent comparable for Andersson.
 

sting101

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Nucks dont have cap to add a big long term hit. Better off seeing what EP2 and Willander look like by the deadline and just add another Zadorov style rental with draft picks to bridge the kids for another year or 2.

Pettersson looks like a Cernak Carlo Ekholm type while Willander is one of the best RD prospects in all of hockey and could play tomorrow.

Weegar would be awesome if there wasn't a salary cap but trading Lekkerimaki for 6 million is not a move Canucks can do
 
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jackjohnson

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"Decent" doesn't win Cups. If Miller declines, the Canucks forward group looks like Pettersson (a legit Cup-caliber star) and a bunch of second liners. Still a legit playoff team, but not a contender.

If Willander, EP2, and Lekkerimaki all become serious middle pairing D and a legit top-6 winger in the next three years, then that would be great for the Canucks. But my point is that I don't believe those three players will be impact NHLers before I believe Miller will no longer be a 90 point forward. Ergo, if I were the Canucks, I would absolutely dangle those three prospects to fill holes now, while Pettersson/Miller/Huges/Demko is a contender-quality core.

Again, the key to winning a Cup is having star players, surrounding them with the right roster construction, and getting lucky. I think there are too many holes on the Canucks roster to seriously consider them Cup contenders this year.
I disagree with that. Missing a top 4 D and maybe 3C better than blueger is not "too many holes". What are the other holes? Even that 3C i mentioned is not a need due to chemistry of the 3rd line which only leaves us with a missing 4th D. If anything, Oilers seem to have more holes now than Canucks and major ones too like a number goalie and top 4D yet considered favorites to win a cup.
 

Johnsie19

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Huh? He only played 36 games that season before he was traded. Also unlike Andersson he is a LD, not a RD. Saying Chychrun had moved value is silly
Chychrun was 24 with 3 yrs left at 4.6 mil. He had paced 60 points in a season, 25+ goals in a season. He had some injury issues granted but there was value in the upside.

Andersson is quite good on a good contract but he's 4 yrs older, 28 almost and we've seen his offensive upside is about 50 points even with pp1. They're similar players but I think Chychrun had more potential upside them than Andersson does now.

Hronek seems like a great comparable for Andersson honestly.
 

Double Dion

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Chychrun was 24 with 3 yrs left at 4.6 mil. He had paced 60 points in a season, 25+ goals in a season. He had some injury issues granted but there was value in the upside.

Andersson is quite good on a good contract but he's 4 yrs older, 28 almost and we've seen his offensive upside is about 50 points even with pp1. They're similar players but I think Chychrun had more potential upside them than Andersson does now.

Hronek seems like a great comparable for Andersson honestly.
No real comment on value, but Andersson has frequently been a top 10 defensive D in the league analytically. Chychrun has never ever been in the top 50. Andersson is a much better player. It would be like saying Lindholm and Kuzmenko have similar value.
 

Ledge And Dairy

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Chychrun was 24 with 3 yrs left at 4.6 mil. He had paced 60 points in a season, 25+ goals in a season. He had some injury issues granted but there was value in the upside.

Andersson is quite good on a good contract but he's 4 yrs older, 28 almost and we've seen his offensive upside is about 50 points even with pp1. They're similar players but I think Chychrun had more potential upside them than Andersson does now.

Hronek seems like a great comparable for Andersson honestly.
Calling him 24 when his birthday was later that month is a bit of a stretch Andersson is still 27 yet you are counting him as 28 so a bit hypocritical no? Yes he had 3 years left vs 2 but he also demanded a trade which hurts his trade value. Not to mention he had quite an extensive injury history so even though he was younger it was not at all a guarantee he would play.

Again he only played 36 games that year for Arizona and the Coyotes were shopping him all year so he was given almost strictly favorable match ups leading up to the trade. The year before he had a season like Andersson just did. Calgary could very easily do the same this season if they wanted to boost his value.

I don't think Hronek is a bad comparable but he was far less proven when he was moved and that was still for a pick in the mid/high teens. If you are dead set on Chychrun being worth more then I am on Andersson being more than Hronek. Split the difference if you must but don't ignore the location of those picks when they were traded.
 

Canovin

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Nucks would be stupid not to make this trade. Weegar has like 7 years left. He's been aging really well too
 

Johnsie19

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No real comment on value, but Andersson has frequently been a top 10 defensive D in the league analytically. Chychrun has never ever been in the top 50. Andersson is a much better player. It would be like saying Lindholm and Kuzmenko have similar value.
Really, what data are you using for that? I kinda just considered him an ok defender, nothing special but can hold his own. Maybe capable of more, especially than he showed this last yr.

I think Chychrun had no. 1 dman upside at the time of the trade given the goal and point production he'd shown at such a young age. Andersson is more of a no. 2. I also think Andersson's value you might have been higher two yrs ago given he was on the up where as now he seems to have settled into who he is.

Nucks would be stupid not to make this trade. Weegar has like 7 years left. He's been aging really well too
He's 30 yrs old he hasn't exactly hit the steep part of the aging curve
 

biturbo19

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Weegar is a better fit for the Canucks than Andersson. He defends far better and is on a long term contract.

I'd say Andersson is probably actually the better fit for Vancouver, pretty comfortably.

If they're bringing a guy in, it'd be huge to get a lot more of that puck movement and offensive ability, unless you're going to split up Hughes-Hronek and try to have Hronek anchor the second pair and the new guy partner up with Quinton.

But more so, it's about the cap hits. Andersson fits so much better, even if it's just a "rental" like Lindholm/Zaddy were. Weegar...maybe you can shoehorn that cap hit in there for right now, but it's a long-term commitment that makes for a very expensive d-corps long term that you're basically completely locked in to. No flexibility there. It'd require big sacrifices elsewhere to make that work at all, long-term...which is what you'd be committing to in trading for Weegar.
 

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