Proposal: Weegar for Lekkerimaki

[Ledge And Dairy]

This is just a bunch of fluff. It's like saying Macklin Celebrini isn't a better prospect than Basha, because Basha was regarded by some to be a 1st round talent, and Celebrini hasn't proven anything. It's a really lame argument.

Lekkerimaki was picked considerably higher because his perceived upside is/was higher. He has accomplished things that show very good progression - things that Flames fans would be ecstatic with if Basha achieved the same. Lekkerimaki HAS proven more than Basha and that isn't debatable, it's fact.

Basha has done nothing to be put next to someone who just had a season like Lekkerimaki just did. Ep and dobber simply have the shiny new prospect syndrome. Maybe Basha ends up better down the line, but you are off your rocker if if can't admit that there is currently a significant gap between the 2.

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What a ridiculous rebuttal. Not only is Celebrini expected to make the NHL this upcoming season, he is expected to be a top 6 center instantly and is one of the favourites for the Calder. The same cannot be said about Lekkerimaki, he is not expected to make the NHL at all. He very well could like Coronato did out of camp last year, but he simply isn't expected to. There is no debating this.

Where either Lekkerimaki or Basha was drafted isn't relevant. Lekkerimaki did have a good season in the SHL as well as a strong WJC tournament, after having what was quite frankly an underwhelming season and tournament the year prior. Basha is coming off a strong 85 point season in the WHL which ranked in 2nd in scoring among this years draft class out of that league (Catton was 1st).

I personally view Lekkerimaki as a better prospect right now, I have no problem admitting that. If offered a 1 for 1 trade I would take Lekkerimaki. However I do not view the gap between them as significant as you are making it out to be, and maybe that is just an issue of perspective. My original comment on why I brought Basha up as comparable at all was based on how Calgary doesn't need more winger prospects, especially at the cost of Weegar. I view both prospects as having legitimate 2nd line potential. So if you take a step back and look at the big picture here the gap between the 2 is not significant enough to justify that loss. Especially when the Flames are in such dire need of center prospects.

(Side note, Dobber uses PNHLe, which is based on production at their respective ages and extrapolates it to how they would produce at the NHL level in their prime using historical data and math. It is not a perfect system, especially this far out but specifically it is definitely not shiny new toy syndrome).

 

[Hoglander]

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What a ridiculous rebuttal. Not only is Celebrini expected to make the NHL this upcoming season, he is expected to be a top 6 center instantly and is one of the favourites for the Calder. The same cannot be said about Lekkerimaki, he is not expected to make the NHL at all. He very well could like Coronato did out of camp last year, but he simply isn't expected to. There is no debating this.

Where either Lekkerimaki or Basha was drafted isn't relevant. Lekkerimaki did have a good season in the SHL as well as a strong WJC tournament, after having what was quite frankly an underwhelming season and tournament the year prior. Basha is coming off a strong 85 point season in the WHL which ranked in 2nd in scoring among this years draft class out of that league (Catton was 1st).

I personally view Lekkerimaki as a better prospect right now, I have no problem admitting that. If offered a 1 for 1 trade I would take Lekkerimaki. However I do not view the gap between them as significant as you are making it out to be, and maybe that is just an issue of perspective. My original comment on why I brought Basha up as comparable at all was based on how Calgary doesn't need more winger prospects, especially at the cost of Weegar. I view both prospects as having legitimate 2nd line potential. So if you take a step back and look at the big picture here the gap between the 2 is not significant enough to justify that loss. Especially when the Flames are in such dire need of center prospects.

(Side note, Dobber uses PNHLe, which is based on production at their respective ages and extrapolates it to how they would produce at the NHL level in their prime using historical data and math. It is not a perfect system, especially this far out but specifically it is definitely not shiny new toy syndrome).

You said Basha was on par with Lekkerimaki. Then you said Lekkerimaki hadn't proven anything. Now you are saying you'd take Lekkerimaki over Basha.

This is silliness, so I'm just gonna leave you to... whatever it is you're doing.

 

[DJN21]

Lekker is the most overrated prospect in the game right now. There I said it....

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You said Basha was on par with Lekkerimaki. Then you said Lekkerimaki hadn't proven anything. Now you are saying you'd take Lekkerimaki over Basha.

This is silliness, so I'm just gonna leave you to... whatever it is you're doing.

You actively chose to insert yourself into a conversation I was having with someone else and completely ignored the context of that conversation.

 

[Coffee]

Lekker is the most overrated prospect in the game right now. There I said it....

But his shot

Kid can shoot @Ledge And Dairy

Please reconsider this trade, with of course Canucks sweetening the deal

 

[Phrasing]

Lekker is the most overrated prospect in the game right now. There I said it....

I don’t think most fans even think about or know who Lek is.

 

[DJN21]

I don’t think most fans even think about or know who Lek is.

fans on this site just voted him 33rd best prospect....

 

[Hoglander]

You actively chose to insert yourself into a conversation I was having with someone else and completely ignored the context of that conversation.

More nonsense.

I responded to you saying they were on par as prospects. Now you're saying you'd take Lekkerimaki over him. I took nothing out of context, while you have changed your stance.

Anthony Romani just had a d+1 season that a 1st rounder would be happy with, but you don't see Canuck fans claiming he's leapfrogged boatloads of prospects since being a late pick only a few months ago. That's basically what you're doing, and it's stupid. How about waiting for Basha to show some post-draft progression, before claiming he's just as good as players taken significantly earlier that have already shown high-level progression?

 

[Johnsie19]

Weegar is a top two D, why would the Flames go for just your 2024 1st round pick? Lekkerimaki isn't necessarily a world beater. Vancity would have to add big time.

He's our top prospect. Seems to be trending toward being a top of lineup player. Weegar is unreal but over 30 and attached to a long term deal which will almost certainly be an anchor near the end.

 

[Johnsie19]

fans on this site just voted him 33rd best prospect....

Seems about right. What makes you say he's overrated?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

More nonsense.

I responded to you saying they were on par as prospects. Now you're saying you'd take Lekkerimaki over him. I took nothing out of context, while you have changed your stance.

Anthony Romani just had a d+1 season that a 1st rounder would be happy with, but you don't see Canuck fans claiming he's leapfrogged boatloads of prospects since being a late pick only a few months ago. That's basically what you're doing, and it's stupid. How about waiting for Basha to show some post-draft progression, before claiming he's just as good as players taken significantly earlier that have already shown high-level progression?

No you responded to me stating Basha and Lekkerimaki were ranked next to each other by EP. You never responded to my post where I said Lekkerimaki was on par with guys like Basha, Gridin, and Coronato. This was that exact quote and you completed ignored the context:

Weird post.

I like Lekkerimaki as a prospect but he's on par with Basha, Gridin, and Coronato. Good but not elite. The point is Calgary clearly has a lack of center prospects and Lekkerimaki doesn't fix that. I have no idea why you think Weegar can't return a similar caliber center prospect if he was made available though, Sergachev just did and he's not as good as Weegar and is more expensive.

On the other hand, vets are important especially for mentoring a high potential prospect. Look at what Tanev did for Hughes, I would rather Parekh have a mentor like that and develop into a star than tarnish that for another 2nd line potential prospect

If we are simply ranking the prospects I would rank Lekkerimaki above Basha but I wouldn't rank him above Coronato. But all 4 (including Gridin) currently project as ~2nd line wingers. Which is why I called them all on par with each other.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Lekkerimaki+ for Weegar could be seen as a fair basis for a trade, but it’s understandable if the Flames would want a center prospect as the return as there’s no reason they need to trade him. That said, I think Lekkerimaki is pretty untouchable for Vancouver. Depending on how his first full season goes in North America, he could be viewed as a guy to replace Boeser, rather than sign Brock to a costly, potentially very regrettable, contract extension.

 

[Hoglander]

No you responded to me stating Basha and Lekkerimaki were ranked next to each other by EP. You never responded to my post where I said Lekkerimaki was on par with guys like Basha, Gridin, and Coronato. This was that exact quote and you completed ignored the context:


If we are simply ranking the prospects I would rank Lekkerimaki above Basha but I wouldn't rank him above Coronato. But all 4 (including Gridin) currently project as ~2nd line wingers. Which is why I called them all on par with each other.

Where are you getting that Lekkerimaki only projects as a 2nd liner. That's really selling him short after the season he just had.

Those ep and dobber rankings are stupid. Basha didn't even crack the top 40 in his own draft just a few months ago, yet somehow he has passed dozens of prospects without even doing anything? Laughable

 

[Phrasing]

fans on this site just voted him 33rd best prospect....

You and I know well those were all mostly Canucks fans raiding that poll. Also, that’s not a real metric for determining whether a prospect is overrated.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Where are you getting that Lekkerimaki only projects as a 2nd liner. That's really selling him short after the season he just had.

Those ep and dobber rankings are stupid. Basha didn't even crack the top 40 in his own draft just a few months ago, yet somehow he has passed dozens of prospects without even doing anything? Laughable

I am not saying he only projects as a 2nd liner. I am saying he most likely projects as that based on his production. He could absolutely become a 1st line talent but 2nd line is a safe bet. He's a good prospect but not an elite level talent that would normally be a shoe-in for the 1st line.

My God you are so butthurt about this Basha thing, again I also compared him to Coronato. Do you also consider that laughable?

 

[Nanuuk]

He's our top prospect. Seems to be trending toward being a top of lineup player. Weegar is unreal but over 30 and attached to a long term deal which will almost certainly be an anchor near the end.

Most of us, or many of us, in Calgary feel Weegar is a Giordano 2.0.

His value won't diminish over the life of the contract.

 

[bert]

Trade would have to be done half way through the season after the canucks accrue some daily cap space.

I think Weegar would be the perfect 3rd dman for the Canucks to make a few playoff pushes.

It's a lot to give up considering Lekkerimaki is our top prospect and fresh of WJC top player award.

It's a big swing. I don't know if it's smart or not but it would give the Canucks a better chance to win for the next 2/3 yrs.

Quite easily Vancouvers #2 d man. The premise of the deal makes sense but im really high on Lekkerimaki, could see Calgary wanting another asset.

 

[bert]

I never understood the Lekker pick by the Canucks other then they thought he is BPA. He always reminded me of a carbon copy of Pettersson and a bit redundant for the team.

You never understood a team going BPA then the player wins MVP of the WJC and you think having two Petterssons would be redundant? Thats alot to unpack in a post that doesnt make any sense to question. Plus he plays wing and is a sniper, doesnt play like Pettersson or the same position haha.

 

[Xirik]

You never understood a team going BPA then the player wins MVP of the WJC and you think having two Petterssons would be redundant? Thats alot to unpack in a post that doesnt make any sense to question. Plus he plays wing and is a sniper, doesnt play like Pettersson or the same position haha.

1. Wrong, people thought Kemell was the was BPA and were head scratching the Lekker pick.

2. You want different types of players on your team.

The rest of your post isn't worth taking seriously, Like @Nico Hischier said

 

[Johnsie19]

Most of us, or many of us, in Calgary feel Weegar is a Giordano 2.0.

His value won't diminish over the life of the contract.

What is that feeling based off of?

There is a lot of precedent that players tend to fall off as they approach 35 and beyond.

Quite easily Vancouvers #2 d man. The premise of the deal makes sense but im really high on Lekkerimaki, could see Calgary wanting another asset.

Sure. I think I just meant it as in your need three top tier dman to compete. We currently have 2.

 

[Nanuuk]

What is that feeling based off of?

There is a lot of precedent that players tend to fall off as they approach 35 and beyond.


Sure. I think I just meant it as in your need three top tier dman to compete. We currently have 2.

His performance to-date.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I'd prefer, if we're dead set on upgrading the D, to not trade Lekk to a division rival.

 

[jackjohnson]

Weegar is a better fit for the Canucks than Andersson. He defends far better and is on a long term contract.


True it might mean that one of the fwds has to go next yr but the d just looks so bad when you look at it. Imagine an injury to Hughes or Hronek or a Myers just being bad again.

True, we definitely need another top 4D

I'd prefer, if we're dead set on upgrading the D, to not trade Lekk to a division rival.

Also true, i rather not trade Lekk to Calgary and watch him become another superstar over there. Am sure we can trade for a top 4 D from another team if we were to trade Lekk

 

[Coffee]

@Ledge And Dairy fine. Add whatever picks you want and let’s get this deal done today

 

[bert]

I am not saying he only projects as a 2nd liner. I am saying he most likely projects as that based on his production. He could absolutely become a 1st line talent but 2nd line is a safe bet. He's a good prospect but not an elite level talent that would normally be a shoe-in for the 1st line.

My God you are so butthurt about this Basha thing, again I also compared him to Coronato. Do you also consider that laughable?

Pure skill stand point there arent many better prospects. Dont agree with your assessments no.