Speculation: Weber's Contract

[Habs Halifax]

I agree that AZ has some work to do in order to meet the floor.

It should be quite easy for AZ to collect picks for cap dumps next summer. Just as they did last summer.

Depending on if they trade Chychrun or not, $38M - $43M is a lot of bad contracts! Were talking a few of them and not just 1 or 2 trades there. I doubt the Habs demand a high price to take on Weber so I can see them very interested in that.

What top teams that are potentially in cap trouble have bad contracts to move? Curious to see what teams they are at this stage.

And I never like using "easy" narrative as a fan.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

I agree that AZ has some work to do in order to meet the floor.

It should be quite easy for AZ to collect picks for cap dumps next summer. Just as they did last summer.

Where Weber's contract fits in nicely for them is there's little (potentially none if insurance is covering) salary to be paid out while still getting the full cap hit. Most cap dumps they could take on will still have a significant salary to be paid out which is a bigger issue for a team with limited revenue/attendance

 

[Soundgarden]

Preds can't do anything cause he is not their property. They can only try to change his mind if they trade for him and are allowed to talk to him. We have to remember that Weber was likely happy in Nashville as the Captain and the Preds traded him out. He has zero loyalties to the Preds at this stage. If he wants to retire after his $3M salary next year, there is nothing stopping him. Not even the Habs. In fact, his contract was designed for him to retire after that $3M salary season.

The Preds would be smart to not spend to the max cap moving forward. Weber retiring or not is a black cloud on their ability to be a top spending team at this stage. Do they think the cap rises after two more years? Probably but also risky to commit to long term deals now without knowing for sure.

we're not going to convince him of anything. Either he retires or he doesn't. Nashville will not send assets to Montreal.

 

[Djp]

There have been no changes to the LTIR rules since they were first instituted in 2005.

i disagree

there are modifications made outside the CBA. I’ve seen things change with it since the new CBA was implemented in terms of LTIR in the off season and the roster gymnastics around the start of the season with players sent dow then called up.

 

[Habs Halifax]

we're not going to convince him of anything. Either he retires or he doesn't. Nashville will not send assets to Montreal.

This I agree with. But other fans acting like the Preds should not be worried about it is nonsense. Basically, their GM is forced to keep $8M in cap space year/year moving forward. If the Preds GM spend to the max cap and signs guys with lots of term, he's at major risk of major problems if Weber retires after next season.

 

[CupInSIX]

we're not going to convince him of anything. Either he retires or he doesn't. Nashville will not send assets to Montreal.

Give him a statue out front of the building if he agrees to not retire. Plus 25% off beer and nachos.

Was he involved in the outdoor classic with other alumni?

 

[Habs Halifax]

i disagree

there are modifications made outside the CBA. I’ve seen things change with it since the new CBA was implemented in terms of LTIR in the off season and the roster gymnastics around the start of the season with players sent dow then called up.

I don't know how much you know or how much you know about that poster but you should not argue with him too much. He's got a good handle on things and I've talked to him many times in the past about the CBA rules. Not many know more than him on HF boards in that area from what I have learned in my travels.

 

[lanky]

I doubt the Habs demand a high price to take on Weber so I can see them very interested in that.

Cap dumps tend to cost assets to get rid of. I'll be very surprised if that market reverses this summer.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Cap dumps tend to cost assets to get rid of. I'll be very surprised if that market reverses this summer.

Weber isn't a cap dump and Montreal doesn't need to move him.

 

[mouser]

i disagree

there are modifications made outside the CBA. I’ve seen things change with it since the new CBA was implemented in terms of LTIR in the off season and the roster gymnastics around the start of the season with players sent dow then called up.

As outsiders we've learned more as the years pass about how the NHL has implemented LTIR, possibly giving a false impression that the rules are changing. However the actual LTIR rules and implementation have not themselves been changed.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Cap dumps tend to cost assets to get rid of. I'll be very surprised if that market reverses this summer.

Weber's contract is all about cap floor where the insurance pays the actual money and the Coyotes help reach the floor without paying too much to acquire and anything out of pocket. The Habs really don't need to get desperate in attempts to offload Weber's contract. Unless new management wants to spend big this summer.

Other cap dumps like Johnson or Eriksson are a different story. How many of those are left now? I'm talking about teams that actually need the cap space and would consider trading futures to free up the cap? Those teams don't include the Habs at this point in time.

Can you show me a list of cup contenders or legit playoff teams that have bad contracts and are also up against the cap? Not saying there are none but I think we have less of them now than we did 2 or 3 years ago. Prove me wrong

 

[Habs Halifax]

i disagree

there are modifications made outside the CBA. I’ve seen things change with it since the new CBA was implemented in terms of LTIR in the off season and the roster gymnastics around the start of the season with players sent dow then called up.

The maneuvering or gymnastics you have noticed might have always been an option but something teams didn't need to do in the past?

 

[mouser]

Where Weber's contract fits in nicely for them is there's little (potentially none if insurance is covering) salary to be paid out while still getting the full cap hit. Most cap dumps they could take on will still have a significant salary to be paid out which is a bigger issue for a team with limited revenue/attendance

Weber's remaining salary is $2.4m if insurance is covering some, $6m if insurance isn't.

I've yet to see any media confirmation that insurance is covering the contract, so I'm currently skeptical that it's insured.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Weber's remaining salary is $2.4m if insurance is covering some, $6m if insurance isn't.

I've yet to see any media confirmation that insurance is covering the contract, so I'm currently skeptical that it's insured.

Still probably the largest cap hit vs. dollars to be paid contract out there if Arizona is looking at this as an option

 

[Soundgarden]

Give him a statue out front of the building if he agrees to not retire. Plus 25% off beer and nachos.

Was he involved in the outdoor classic with other alumni?

​

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

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Oh come on, we could also make a banner for him and unveil them at the same time.

 

[CupInSIX]

​

No seriously, the statue/legacy thing has been a tactic in recent UFA negotiations (albeit with Cup winners).

 

[Ciao]

Fast forward to the 23/24 season where Weber might retire (3 season left at $1M like many of us are saying) and the Preds have 9 players under contract with about $33M in cap space. Subtract Forsberg's new contract and Weber's cap hit and it's about $16M in cap space left with 10 players signed? How much higher will the cap be for 23/24? Guess work but lets say at best the Preds have $20M in cap space with 13 players to sign?

A lot of unknown factors to try to project forward so not sure it's a simple "nothing" answer. You want it to be that way but you may or may not be right. It's not as simple as that though

The other thing to consider is if the Preds spend in UFA this summer. Do they want a rebuild or are they going to try to remain competitive? Any moves that puts them tight against the cap moving forward, can have consequences if Weber retires after next year. Brush that under the rug if you wish but that is not just some no problems at all type narrative.

I don't understand why Weber would retire.

Isn't it expected that he will be on LTIR for the duration of his contract?

It would be illogical to walk away from $1 million per year for the last three years of his contract, even if he never plays again.

Didn't Chris Pronger collect the balance of his contract after he was LTIR'd?

 

[Oates2Neely]

???

I'm talking about Arizona getting a LTIR contract with a cap hit that is greater than dollars paid. That's an evergreen suggestion. I assume you somehow thought I was talking about cap recapture for some reason?

Teams PAY Arizona in assets to take on those contracts. Habs fans think they’ll receive a valuable asset for Weber??

 

[Captain Mountain]

I don't understand why Weber would retire.

Isn't it expected that he will be on LTIR for the duration of his contract?

It would be illogical to walk away from $1 million per year for the last three years of his contract, even if he never plays again.

Didn't Chris Pronger collect the balance of his contract after he was LTIR'd?

For what its worth, the NHL has been very stringent in testing to confirm that Weber is LTIR eligible. Moreso than with previous LTIRetirements. Its an open question that he'd want to continue doing that for 6 million dollars four more year (or 3 million over 3 years). He's earned over 124 million over his career and has earning potential post retirement. Players who have earned less have given up more.

But at the end of the day, I doubt Montreal cares a ton either way, they can make use of his contract/LTIR status now.

 

[mouser]

I don't understand why Weber would retire.

Isn't it expected that he will be on LTIR for the duration of his contract?

It would be illogical to walk away from $1 million per year for the last three years of his contract, even if he never plays again.

Didn't Chris Pronger collect the balance of his contract after he was LTIR'd?

The question is whether Weber wants a post-playing career in NHL management with Montreal or any other team? If so he can't do so until his contract expires in 2026 or he retires earlier.

Add in the fact that Montreal would prefer Weber retires early.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Teams PAY Arizona in assets to take on those contracts. Habs fans think they’ll receive a valuable asset for Weber??

No? We'll obviously have to give them something, probably not that much though considering Arizona's arena situation. Why would you think I was saying we would be paid for it?

 

[Peter Puck]

Two points people in this thread are missing.

1) If Nashville acquires Weber they can buy him out rather than letting him retire. This reduces their cap penalty but also doubles the length of time the smaller penalty is imposed.

2) Under certain circumstances teams do get a benefit from acquiring LTIR contracts like Weber's if they have them on the opening day of the season. That's the date on which each team's maximum cap is set. This only works if you are a cap team. This is pretty complicated and I don't know how all the details work. The Leaf's exploited this a few years ago when they traded to get someone (I forget who) on LTIR.

 

[Zonk]

Gotta wonder that when the Salary Cap was introduced in 2005 if they ever imagined all these years later the league would’ve made such a balls of it that fans can’t tell if Weber’s contract is a bonus or a penalty

I don't think that it is fair to blame this on the league. The blame lies elsewhere.

Let's face it, it was appropriate for the league to introduce a mechanism that would not penalize a team that was unlucky enough to have a good player injured. The mechanism that was introduced is very easy to understand:

If a player has a long term injury, he goes on LTIR and the team can replace the injured player with a player or players with AAVs that do not exceed the AAV of the injured player.

How is that difficult to understand? It is remarkably straightforward.

It is actually quite comical to read some of the posts in this thread. Speaking of comedy, and on a totally unrelated topic, I was rewatching the 2006 movie Idiocracy the other day. The first time that I saw it, I assumed that it was a comedy. Now I am wondering if it was intended as a documentary.

 

[Ciao]

The question is whether Weber wants a post-playing career in NHL management with Montreal or any other team? If so he can't do so until his contract expires in 2026 or he retires earlier.

Add in the fact that Montreal would prefer Weber retires early.

Sure, but he's still owed $3 million in salary, less escrow, for the last three years of the contract.

If someone wants to pay him that much, plus a sweetener for his time and trouble, then it makes sense to retire early and start his post-retirement career.

If they don't do that, then it's like he's paying them to do a job instead of the other way around. In that case, he might as well invest his time getting to know his wife and kids in a way he couldn't while he was playing pro hockey for all those years, and start the post-playing career when the contract runs out. There will be plenty of time for that soon enough, if he never plays again.

Now, if he no longer qualifies for LTIR, then there's a good reason to retire.

Otherwise not.

This is a guy who signed a hard-to-match offer sheet with Philadelphia while he was playing for Nashville. I don't think he would really give a shit what Montreal wants.