Speculation: Weber's Contract

[Habs Halifax]

Okay. I read it. You're still wrong. The person who wrote that article did a poor job of explaining how LTIR works, which is probably why you are confused.

Let's assume the following:

Cap ceiling: 81.5 mil
Team cap hit: 80 mil
Injured player: 5 mil cap hit

So, the team is operating 1.5 mil under the cap when the player gets hurt. They place him on LTIR and their new cap ceiling becomes 85 mil. The 80 mil they were spending, plus the 5 mil for the injured player. The amount they are spending doesn't change though. They are still spending 80 mil.

Now let's introduce Weber into this equation, and for simplicity sake, let's round his cap hit up to 8 mil.

The team trades for Weber and makes no other moves. The team's cap ceiling goes up to 93 mil (85 + 8). But the team's cap cost goes up to 88 mil (80 + 8). The net effect is zero. With or without Weber's contract, the team still only has 5 mil in cap space.

The same thing is true when Toronto traded for Clarkson. His contract enabled them to increase their cap ceiling, but it also increased the amount they were spending by the same amount. That's why they traded players. That's why they gave up a 1st round pick to get rid of Marleau.

Simply bringing in a player who is on LTIR doesn't add cap space. If you actually read the link I posted, you'd see this is true.

If you still think you're right, then point out where my math is wrong.

One question I have is who was placed on LTIR before the season started? Horton or Clarkson (or both)? I believe the Leafs made that move and put one of them on LTIR cause they were forced too (Marner signed in Sept that year) and then the other contract was moved to LTIR which helped them accrue cap space. It's very deep with context. It's basically how the Weber/Price situation worked for the Habs this year. If Price was not on LTIR after the season started, we would not have much accrued cap space today

 

[mouser]

You should stop digging. You are just demonstrating your ignorance on this aspect of the cap. Although you did admit that getting a LTIR contract did help the Leafs out.

Maybe you should take a look at this article from the time:
Maple Leafs Create Cap Space by Acquiring Clarkson

Technically what Toronto did was minimize cap space lost to LTIR, rather then actually increase cap space. They were in danger of having a prohibitively low ACSL, losing cap space. The core reason Toronto was in this situation was because
a) They were planning to use LTIR the entire season on Horton.
b) They were planning to sign a player (Marner) to a contract larger then Horton's contract. Making the timing risky to manage the roster to maximize LTIR relief.

The ideal solution for Toronto would have been to trade Horton away, but that was prohibitively expensive as his contract was not insured.

 

[mouser]

One question I have is who was placed on LTIR before the season started? Horton or Clarkson (or both)? I believe the Leafs made that move and put one of them on LTIR cause they were forced too (Marner signed in Sept that year) and then the other contract was moved to LTIR which helped them accrue cap space. It's very deep with context. It's basically how the Weber/Price situation worked for the Habs this year. If Price was not on LTIR after the season started, we would not have much accrued cap space today

Both Clarkson and Horton went on LTIR the final day of training camp. The Leafs did not accrue any cap space that season.

 

[GAGLine]

One question I have is who was placed on LTIR before the season started? Horton or Clarkson (or both)? I believe the Leafs made that move and put one of them on LTIR cause they were forced too (Marner signed in Sept that year) and then the other contract was moved to LTIR which helped them accrue cap space. It's very deep with context. It's basically how the Weber/Price situation worked for the Habs this year. If Price was not on LTIR after the season started, we would not have much accrued cap space today

Both players were on LTIR from the start of the season:

Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

They were too deep into LTIR to leave either one off LTIR to start the season.

The only way to accrue cap space while a player is on LTIR is to reduce their cap spending below the ACSL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Both Clarkson and Horton went on LTIR the final day of training camp. The Leafs did not accrue any cap space that season.

Thanks. I was wondering about it. I'm assuming they were forced to do that cause Marner's contract kicked in but I didn't remember what their actual cap structure looked like.

 

[HockeyVirus]

So basically

- With Muzzin already on LTIR, they add Weber bumping them up to ~13M in cap space.

- If Muzzin comes back, no biggie. Basically gives the Leafs the ability to add significantly how they see fit.

- In the offseason if LTIR is not something they want to get into year over year due to not accruing cap, flip him to Arizona for free and they can use the low cash and high cap.

If cheap enough this move would allow Toronto to actually go all in. Acquire a top 4 dman and a forward and still have cap to spare most likely.

 

[mouser]

So basically

- With Muzzin already on LTIR, they add Weber bumping them up to ~13M in cap space.

- If Muzzin comes back, no biggie. Basically gives the Leafs the ability to add significantly how they see fit.

- In the offseason if LTIR is not something they want to get into year over year due to not accruing cap, flip him to Arizona for free and they can use the low cash and high cap.

If cheap enough this move would allow Toronto to actually go all in. Acquire a top 4 dman and a forward and still have cap to spare most likely.

No.

Please read some of the earlier posts in this thread explaining why it doesn't work that way.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Big picture, there is no mechanism to spend more than $81.5 mil on healthy players in the regular season. If you don't believe a few HF posters, just look at Tampa's CapFriendly chart (Link). Its cap (with a healthy Bogosian) with Seabrook is above $88 mil, but the non-Seabrook portion is under $81.5 mil.

If LTIR actually allowed a team to artificially increase the cap, the league would have already placed a high trade value on that type of contract.

 

[glenbuis]

No.

Please read some of the earlier posts in this thread explaining why it doesn't work that way.

wouldn't it be better for nashville to reacquire that contract to protect them from potential cap recapture penalties ?

 

[Soundgarden]

wouldn't it be better for nashville to reacquire that contract to protect them from potential cap recapture penalties ?

No

 

[Habs Halifax]

wouldn't it be better for nashville to reacquire that contract to protect them from potential cap recapture penalties ?

If the Preds tried that, why would Weber play nice? What incentives does Weber get if he has his mind set on retiring after this next $3M salary season and he has already earned $125M in his career? And how would the Preds know if they can convince him or not? The Habs are going to let them talk to Weber? I don't see that circumstance happening. If Weber ends up being tired of the yearly LTIR protocol and doesn't want to go through that yearly protocol for $1M, there is very little you can do to change his mind. Especially if he wants to join management and collect a salary doing that or to just be at piece with his retirement and spend time with family and friends without having to fly to certain cities for LTIR check ups

Basically, the Preds are going to manage their cap and leave $8M open cause they have too. And in 2 more years when the NHLPA pays of the outstanding Covid ballance they owe the owners, we are looking at a sky rocketing cap where it's $90M very fast. That helps the Preds cap management as well.

It's not something I see the Preds very worried about. Careful management yes but they have already come to grips with that way back when the cap recapture penalties were introduced.