We didn’t know what we had

[mikeyz]

Huh, guess people forget about the horrible moves he made. You can't only look at what he did well.

We know about the horrible moves he did, but, it pales in comparison to what the boy wonder has done.

 

[TMLisSRYinGerman]

Problem is “skill based” teams - - aka finesse teams - - don’t win in the playoffs. It’s the grit teams that have post season success.

Just depends on your aspirations - - win a Presidents Trophy or win a Stanley Cup.

That's absolutely true, my point still stands.

 

[mikeyz]

Because he gets results

And what results might those be?

1 and done playoff appearances 3 years in a row after Lou left? Not to mention, that after each passing year, those playoff eliminations got more and more embarrassing?

Getting the shake down contract wise from the big 4 upfront?

Pissing away this years 1st round pick for a damaged goods player who even when he played had ZERO impact and did f*** all?

Are those the results you’re referring to?

 

[Donnie740]

That's absolutely true, my point still stands.

Essentially, you’re saying Lamoriello is shitty at building teams that lose in the playoffs but good at building teams that win in the playoffs.

 

[Donnie740]

And what results might those be?

1 and done playoff appearances 3 years in a row after Lou left? Not to mention, that after each passing year, those playoff eliminations got more and more embarrassing?

Getting the shake down contract wise from the big 4 upfront?

Pissing away this years 1st round pick for a damaged goods player who even when he played had ZERO impact and did f*** all?

Are those the results you’re referring to?

No GM has done less with more than Dubas has.

Total disaster right from the beginning when he decided to replace Kadri with Tavares.

Going from younger to older, from aggressive to finesse, from $4.5m to $11m. And completely screwed up the Leafs payroll scale in doing so.

Absolutely NOTHING positive came from that decision.

Dubas Fanboi will whine about Kadri being suspended for throwing hits. As if that’s a bad thing.

When it comes to getting KTFO’d you want the guy who dishes it out - - not the guy who takes it.

 

[Dave92]

Martin and Komarov have next to nothing to do with where the Islanders are right now. It's Trotz and players playing way above their heads is all.

2nd year in a row they make the Semi finals...this level of denial is just funny.

 

[The Blueprint]

I give way more credit to Trotz than Lou, but at the end of the day the team just finds a way to win series.

Hope Matthews and Marner are still watching an taking notes....

 

[hullsy47]

People gotta stop acting like Lou was some God when he was here lol

He was a middle of the pack gm.

He hired the best coach available. The leafs thought Babcock was the guy
Trotz will be on team canada coaching staff

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

A lot of revisionism.

He sucked.

 

[Peasy]

Why do so many people just choose to live in the past... Barry trotz is the main reason why the islanders have improved so much, not Lou.

Everyday there's new threads about old leafs here. Move on with your life.

 

[Jeremy2020]

I give way more credit to Trotz than Lou, but at the end of the day the team just finds a way to win series.

Hope Matthews and Marner are still watching an taking notes....

Yea, Lou isn't responsible for hiring trotz. It's like people on here blaming Shanny for dubas decisions or dubas for for Keefe and his decisions. People who make decisions on guys they hire to run their teams aren't responsible for the success/failure of those guys. In fact, it's smart to let guys who fail at hiring good people under them to keep trying because now they know what the bad ones look like so the Leafs are in a much, much, much, much, much, much better place the Islanders. Islanders got fooled by Lou and all the success they're having and they don't even know it.

 

[The Blueprint]

Yea, Lou isn't responsible for hiring trotz. It's like people on here blaming Shanny for dubas decisions or dubas for for Keefe and his decisions. People who make decisions on guys they hire to run their teams aren't responsible for the success/failure of those guys. In fact, it's smart to let guys who fail at hiring good people under then to keep trying because now they know what the bad ones look like so the Leafs are in a much, much, much, much, much, much better place the Islanders. Islanders got fooled by Lou and all the success they're having and they don't even know it.

I never said any of that eh? Great post though friend.

He wasn't a good GM in Toronto. If you wanna give him credit for every little thing that happens on the island be my guest, and go buy a jersey of your favorite team too.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[sparxx87]

Thanks for the correction on Leo. It wasn't a trade but a signing, but regardless it was bad at that money.

I've called those moves mediocre, you've called them reasonable. A C+ from me and a B from you. Either way, he didn't exactly ace the material.

And you're off on Toews - he played 20.5 min per game for the Isles in his 2nd year in the NHL. Kid was a stud, and Lou gave him away. Dubas would be raked over coals if he made a deal like that - and deservedly so.

What futures did Lou give away? A pair of 1sts, a young stud dman, and tying up all of their future cap room. He also gave up a bunch of prospects in the Palmeri et all deals, but I don't know enough about them. The fact that Dubas also gave away a 1st is irrelevant to this conversation.

Finally, no - Dubas could not bring Trotz here in 2018, as it was unrealistic to fire Babcock in 2018 (another lovely gift Lou left us).

Props for admitting it, I guess.

It’s only irrelevant to you because if you’re half as smart as you think you are, you know pro sports are about asset management. While nobody is perfect, measuring assets out vs assets in (and how they fit/produce) is another very bad look for Dubas vs Lamoriello.

 

[Web In Front]

What exactly has Lou done on Long Island besides hiring Trotz? He inherited Barzal, Lee, Eberle, Nelson, Beauvillier, Bailey, Pelech, Pulock, Sorokin, Leddy, Mayfield, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, etc. He had to give away a top four defenseman in Devon Toews (who he also inherited) because he couldn't resist signing garbage players like Komarov, Hickey and Martin for way too much money. If anyone deserves credit for the Islanders success it's Trotz and the players that Garth Snow acquired. Maybe the Leafs should hire Garth Snow as their GM.

 

[sparxx87]

-If Lou knows how to assemble a well-functioning roster, he didn't show it here. He failed to take advantage of Marner/Matthews/Nylander being stars on entry deals - wasting our ample cap on a bunch of overpaid mediocrity like Marleau and Zaitsev.

-Toews was 4th in ice time, with 20.5 minutes per game - only 2 minutes behind their 1st pairing. He put up 28 points in 68 games as a 2nd year dman on a team not known for their offense.

To suggest that the Islanders, or any team, couldn't use Toews, and that a pair of late 2nd rounders was a good return for a talent like that is silly. The Islanders dealt him because they were running into cap issues due to the overpayments they gave out to the other guys mentioned in this thread - not because they didn't need him.

Another big swing and a miss.

Andrew Ladd contract (signed by Snow) is what created a cap crunch. It basically came down to Barzal vs Toews, and they had a deep young blueline so chose to give from there.

Lou said he wanted to keep him, but such is life of successful teams in a salary cap world.

Meanwhile, Dubas has shipped away 3/4 of the roster to fix his cap due to moves he made, and still hasn’t won a thing.

Which would you prefer?

 

[DarkKnight]

Huh, guess people forget about the horrible moves he made. You can't only look at what he did well.

Why no look at it all, sure there were bad ones (I note now that Dubas has a resume, he too has amassed a few, funny how that works) but review his tenure and you’ll see quite a few deft moves as well (Dubas too I’d add):

People forget;
The Complete Reign of Lou Lamoriello

 

[DarkKnight]

Is it people think Lou was some god, or simply countering the juvenile nonsense here that he was awful? A lot of hyperbole and exaggeration.

It really stems from people being Dubas or Lou camp, you couldn’t possible have any nuance to your thought process, nope black or white, one has to be good the other bad, over state and ignore anything that contradicts this simplistic world view.

My view was always Dubas was the heir apparent, Lou would leave. The error was we did it possibly a year too early, to throw a rookie GM into a big 3 negotiation was a mistake and it turned out to be just that. Then the X factor JT nobody say coming. I thought it then, it’s fact now.

 

[sparxx87]

Is it people think Lou was some god, or simply countering the juvenile nonsense here that he was awful? A lot of hyperbole and exaggeration.

It really stems from people being Dubas or Lou camp, you couldn’t possible have any nuance to your thought process, nope black or white, one has to be good the other bad, over state and ignore anything that contradicts this simplistic world view.

My view was always Dubas was the heir apparent, Lou would leave. The error was we did it possibly a year too early, to throw a rookie GM into a big 3 negotiation was a mistake and it turned out to be just that. Then the X factor JT nobody say coming. I thought it then, it’s fact now.

I think most will acknowledge Lamoriello is a bit crusty and some of what he does isn’t really ideal in 2021, but he gets the job done.

Any sports executive makes mistakes. As the article you posted concludes, you have to really comb through everything and look at the big picture. By this measure, he did a very good job.

For me, disconnect comes from fan who doesn’t pay much attention googling player + stats and saying “omg bad contract” when in fact, these are good or important acquisitions for them. Pageau trade and subsequent thread was pretty funny, especially now.

 

[Dreakmur]

-If Lou knows how to assemble a well-functioning roster, he didn't show it here. He failed to take advantage of Marner/Matthews/Nylander being stars on entry deals - wasting our ample cap on a bunch of overpaid mediocrity like Marleau and Zaitsev.

Bringing in Patrick Marleau was on of the keys to the team’s improvement.

-Toews was 4th in ice time, with 20.5 minutes per game - only 2 minutes behind their 1st pairing. He put up 28 points in 68 games as a 2nd year dman on a team not known for their offense.

To suggest that the Islanders, or any team, couldn't use Toews, and that a pair of late 2nd rounders was a good return for a talent like that is silly. The Islanders dealt him because they were running into cap issues due to the overpayments they gave out to the other guys mentioned in this thread - not because they didn't need him.

He was 5th in the playoffs the season before he was traded. He was not trusted in defensive situations.

Yes, he was moved because they were having cap issues. If they could afford 4 million for their #5 defenseman, they would have kept him.

It’s great for Colorado that he’s playing well, but New York clearly doesn’t miss him. That’s called a win-win trade.

 

[rumman]

And Lou offered him more. Sooooo was it a good move or not?

Wily old Lou was probably just driving up the price on JT to weaken the competition?

 

[Dreakmur]

Is it people think Lou was some god, or simply countering the juvenile nonsense here that he was awful? A lot of hyperbole and exaggeration.

It really stems from people being Dubas or Lou camp, you couldn’t possible have any nuance to your thought process, nope black or white, one has to be good the other bad, over state and ignore anything that contradicts this simplistic world view.

My view was always Dubas was the heir apparent, Lou would leave. The error was we did it possibly a year too early, to throw a rookie GM into a big 3 negotiation was a mistake and it turned out to be just that. Then the X factor JT nobody say coming. I thought it then, it’s fact now.

Yep, both guys have done some good and some bad… both more good than bad.

 

[Bluelines]

People gotta stop acting like Lou was some God when he was here lol

He was a middle of the pack gm.

He did a lot of the heavy lifting, trading Phaneuf, Kessel. Was he perfect? No. Was he the train wreck some like to portray him as? No. He's a good GM.

Lou lucked into Trotz (877 wins), who is IMO the best Coach of the last 20 years. Quenneville (962 wins) has more wins (in 2 additional seasons) but IMO Trots did more with less. If Lou hires anyone but Trotz, we are not here having this discussion.

NHL Coach Register | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Dave92]

I hate to admit it but the biggest mistake was Leafs signing JT. I know why they had to, local kid in his prime comes home. Like really when does that happen to the Leafs? NEVER
Stamkos IMO never had any intention to sign here. IMO he used us to try to get more $$$ from TB.

But by signing JT Leafs had to know it drove up the price for Marner and Matthews. They were relying on the cap going up and then covid happens. It sucks but when does good things happen for Leafs fans?

I can't see how adding an asset like JT for nothing can ever be a bad thing unless you miss manage it . The mistake was the "we can and we will" attitude and Dubas blowing his brains out to keep all 4.

We could have signed JT and gotten a massive haul for Marner the next summer, and our salary structure would be perfectly fine right now

 

[Arthur Morgan]

So you would take any GM over Dubas? Do people just ignore the good things he's done?

Yup. That's how it goes here. and another reason Leafs are the worst fans in all of sports.
We got lots of good fans. lots and lots but we're doubled or quadrupled by dummies.

 

[Go4soda]

Watching that isles team handle Boston, they’re everything we’re not. They’ve done a good job building a playoff- ready group. They frustrated Boston and closed them out with no hesitation. Good balance, without some of the star power the leafs have.