We didn’t know what we had

[Kurtz]

His biggest strength IMO is his respectability

he has made some good trades, a few bad signings... but it is the respectability he brought us that has been crucial. Islanders were a laughing stock even after ditching Wang and getting legit owners... it was Lou who helped wash the stink of failure off the team and change the culture for the better.

Without a doubt Trotz is a bigger difference maker, but that just brings me back to why Lou is good for the isles... he is so respected. We were able to entice Trotz for the most part based on Trotz' esteem for Lou.

Full credit to Lou for signing Trotz.

But you must admit that Lou was incredibly fortunate that Trotz hit free agency after winning the cup the year prior (how often does this happen?) at exactly the same time that Lou was taking over in New York.

Also, it's not as if Lou would have brought Trotz to Toronto, so this whole thing is moot.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Lou Lams is slowly destroying the Islanders like he destroyed the Devils and was on his way to destroying the Leafs. Trotz has saved his ass so far, but it wont be long until the chickens come home to roost.


Don't believe me? Take a look at Lou's biggest moves since he got to NYI:

Dealt a 2nd for Andy Green (bad move)
Traded 1st+2nd for Pageau and then gave Pageau 5 mil for 6 years. (two bad moves)
Traded away Devon Toews to Colorado for a pair of 2nds (terrible move. Toews is a young stud playing 25 mpg on the Avs)
Palmieri rental for a 1st (decent move- working out so far)
Traded for two overpaid guys in Matt Martin and Leo Komarov (mediocre moves, but I guess they worked out ok)
Signed Eberle long term for $5mil/per (mediocre move)
Signed Brock Nelson for 6/36 (another mediocre move)
Bridged Barzal (logical move).
Signed 30 year old Anders Lee to 6 years at 42mil (good player but not someone you wanna be paying 7m to for his age 34-36 seasons)


I might be forgetting a major move or two. But look at the above moves. Horrible. He's given up their futures in order to lock in a half dozen solid but unspectacular players to long term, onerous deals. If Trotz wasn't there, NYI would be toast.

I am not gonna argue with all of this, this is your guys' board and I am a guest.

But this one bolded point really bugging me...

you would be verrrrry hard pressed to find an isles fan who wishes we kept that first or that we didn't sign Pageau. He isn't a star per se but the dude plays the game the right way, and he does it hard. Excellent 2-way forward for us who has been clutch at key times, including the faceoff dot tonight where one of his wins (an area we struggled at prior to his arrival) directly led to a goal for the isles.

dude just fits on our team perfectly. probably my favorite current islander

 

[Thrasymachus]

Full credit to Lou for signing Trotz.

But you must admit that Lou was incredibly fortunate that Trotz hit free agency despite winning the cup the year prior (how often does this happen?) at exactly the same time that Lou was taking over in New York.

Half of everything is luck

 

[yubbers]

His biggest strength IMO is his respectability

he has made some good trades, a few bad signings... but it is the respectability he brought us that has been crucial. Islanders were a laughing stock even after ditching Wang and getting legit owners... it was Lou who helped wash the stink of failure off the team and change the culture for the better.

Without a doubt Trotz is a bigger difference maker, but that just brings me back to why Lou is good for the isles... he is so respected. We were able to entice Trotz for the most part based on Trotz' esteem for Lou.

Lou was all about discipline and respect. His clean-cut beard rule.....dress code. Now contrast that with this. End of the season presser and you come out looking like you're gonna fight your stepdad at the Sea-Doo dealership. It's a joke.

 

[Kurtz]

I am not gonna argue with all of this, this is your guys' board and I am a guest.

But this one bolded point really bugging me...

you would be verrrrry hard pressed to find an isles fan who wishes we kept that first or that we didn't sign Pageau. He isn't a star per se but the dude plays the game the right way, and he does it hard. Excellent 2-way forward for us who has been clutch at key times, including the faceoff dot tonight where one of his wins (an area we struggled at prior to his arrival) directly led to a goal for the isles.

dude just fits on our team perfectly. probably my favorite current islander

Fair enough on Pageau.

 

[yubbers]

That couldn't be further from the truth and I really really hope you don't honestly believe what you just said.

So you're telling me Marner has more playoff success than those 2? Uh....Marner has never left the 1st round. Are you feeling ok?

 

[Kurtz]

Half of everything is luck

Spot on. I wish the posters who pine for something that never was on this board could understand this concept too.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Fair enough on Pageau.

I actually agree with some of your other points.

Lou isn't terrible but he is definitely not playing 3d chess either. I'd give him a B.

Now Trotz on the other hand...

I have to pinch myself sometimes to remind myself this isnt some fever dream and that he is in fact our coach. Truly world class (not that he isn't without faults either, but remember I had to watch Doug Weight and Jack Capuano for years so compared to those two... )

 

[Thrasymachus]

Spot on. I wish the posters who pine for something that never was on this board could understand this concept too.

another one for you...

yes Garth made a great trade, but ALL the stars had to align for us to draft Barzal (e.g. Chiarelli had to be stupid, Barzal had to be cocky / injured his draft season to fall, Boston had to whiff terribly three times in a row). That was massive luck.

Things just work out the way they do sometimes. I strongly believe JT would have scored at least one clutch ot goal for you guys if it wasnt for the Perry incident.

 

[Smif]

So you're telling me Marner has more playoff success than those 2? Uh....Marner has never left the 1st round. Are you feeling ok?

Martin and Komarov have next to nothing to do with where the Islanders are right now. It's Trotz and players playing way above their heads is all.

 

[aight]

I am not gonna argue with all of this, this is your guys' board and I am a guest.

But this one bolded point really bugging me...

you would be verrrrry hard pressed to find an isles fan who wishes we kept that first or that we didn't sign Pageau. He isn't a star per se but the dude plays the game the right way, and he does it hard. Excellent 2-way forward for us who has been clutch at key times, including the faceoff dot tonight where one of his wins (an area we struggled at prior to his arrival) directly led to a goal for the isles.

dude just fits on our team perfectly. probably my favorite current islander

I all of a sudden love kyle palmieri because he’s on the islanders

he just seems like an islander

 

[Donnie740]

I am not gonna argue with all of this, this is your guys' board and I am a guest.

But this one bolded point really bugging me...

you would be verrrrry hard pressed to find an isles fan who wishes we kept that first or that we didn't sign Pageau. He isn't a star per se but the dude plays the game the right way, and he does it hard. Excellent 2-way forward for us who has been clutch at key times, including the faceoff dot tonight where one of his wins (an area we struggled at prior to his arrival) directly led to a goal for the isles.

dude just fits on our team perfectly. probably my favorite current islander

Pageau is the perfect 3rd line C - - gritty, great defensively and can also provide some offence.

Locked in at $5m through his prime years that’s a fantastic contract.

Leaf fans are pleading for the team to give a mediocre plugger like Zach Hyman $5m+ this year and Hyman’s not even close to the player that Pageau is.

NYI gave up a 1st and 2nd for Pageau. Toronto gave up a 1st and two 4ths for Nick Foligno.

That’s so Dubas.

 

[Dreakmur]

Dealt a 2nd for Andy Green (bad move)

Probably an overpay, but Greene is excellent depth for a long playoff run.

Traded 1st+2nd for Pageau and then gave Pageau 5 mil for 6 years. (two bad moves)

Probably more money than you want to pay, but he's got 22 play-off points since joining the team.

Traded away Devon Toews to Colorado for a pair of 2nds (terrible move. Toews is a young stud playing 25 mpg on the Avs)

He was their #5 defenseman.

Palmieri rental for a 1st (decent move- working out so far)

Palmieri and Zajac was the package I was hoping Toronto would acquire.

Traded for two overpaid guys in Matt Martin and Leo Komarov (mediocre moves, but I guess they worked out ok)

Komarov signed as a UFA, and Martin was traded for essentially nothing.

Signed Eberle long term for $5mil/per (mediocre move)

5 million seems pretty fair for a 20/30/50 winger.

Signed Brock Nelson for 6/36 (another mediocre move)

Reasonable for a 50 point power forward.

Signed 30 year old Anders Lee to 6 years at 42mil (good player but not someone you wanna be paying 7m to for his age 34-36 seasons)

That will suck later, but when you can compete now, you go for it.

I might be forgetting a major move or two. But look at the above moves. Horrible. He's given up their futures in order to lock in a half dozen solid but unspectacular players to long term, onerous deals.

What futures have been given up? They're down a 1st round pick this year and a 4th round pick next year. Their 6 picks in each of the next two drafts is double what Toronto has.

You can have a lot of slight over-pays when you don't have a couple of massive over-pays. To each their own.

If Trotz wasn't there, NYI would be toast.

But he is there... and Toronto could have had him if Dubas bothered to look past his mediocre friend.

 

[Kurtz]

another one for you...

yes Garth made a great trade, but ALL the stars had to align for us to draft Barzal (e.g. Chiarelli had to be stupid, Barzal had to be cocky / injured his draft season to fall, Boston had to whiff terribly three times in a row). That was massive luck.

Things just work out the way they do sometimes. I strongly believe JT would have scored at least one clutch ot goal for you guys if it wasnt for the Perry incident.

Yeah, I was watching the draft and couldn't believe Boston passed up on Barzal with all 3 of their firsts. I was pretty ecstatic over that one. Frankly, I'm still quite happy that Barzal ended up anywhere but Boston.

 

[yubbers]

Martin and Komarov have next to nothing to do with where the Islanders are right now. It's Trotz and players playing way above their heads is all.

So you're sticking with Marner has more playoff success than them?

 

[Thrasymachus]

Yeah, I was watching the draft and couldn't believe Boston passed up on Barzal with all 3 of their firsts. I was pretty ecstatic over that one. Frankly, I'm still quite happy that Barzal ended up anywhere but Boston.

The karmic fruits of that poor decision ripened this series. Barzal looked like a star... whereas i didn't hear the name Senyshyn called all too often by the announcers

 

[Man Bear Pig]

No, they don’t. What other wingers make $11M?

What case is there that he makes more than Hart Trophy and Stanley Cup Champion Nikita Kucherov?

I was speaking more towards the $9 million a year for Marner.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

9 million would be slightly overpaid for Marner, 11 is majorly overpaid. It's an absolutely ridiculous amount to pay for a playmaking winger with one ppg season under his belt. Who else has ever handed out a contract like that?

Matthews was the best ES goal scorer in the league a year younger and a center, Marner had 1 good season playing next to Tavares.

Marner being next to Tavares is irrelevant to me. Marner would perform with anybody in the regular season. The regular season stats aren't what matters though in the grand scheme of things. I think we can all agree on him being paid for his regular season performance. Marner squeezed every dime out of the Leafs.

 

[Stonehands1990]

IMO Our first pick (Amirov) was a bad one. Should have picked the guy that was invited to Canadas WC team, Braden Schneider a 6'2" 210 lb right shooting Dman.

Seven of our 12 picks were non North Americans. Of the 12 picks, only one was over 6'

The 2019 draft 3 of our 6 picks were 5'9"

Dubas has small man syndrome.

Look at the teams still playing. Look at the defense. Look at the compete level. Non existent in Leafs land and won't be helped with those 2 drafts.

You’re looking at the size of 17–18 year olds who will certainly grow and fill out. Also oversized junior age players like Tyler Biggs & Luke Schenn just bully smaller players and then don’t pan out

 

[Kurtz]

Probably an overpay, but Greene is excellent depth for a long playoff run.



Probably more money than you want to pay, but he's got 22 play-off points since joining the team.



He was their #5 defenseman.



Palmieri and Zajac was the package I was hoping Toronto would acquire.



Komarov signed as a UFA, and Martin was traded for essentially nothing.



5 million seems pretty fair for a 20/30/50 winger.



Reasonable for a 50 point power forward.



That will suck later, but when you can compete now, you go for it.



What futures have been given up? They're down a 1st round pick this year and a 4th round pick next year. Their 6 picks in each of the next two drafts is double what Toronto has.

You can have a lot of slight over-pays when you don't have a couple of massive over-pays. To each their own.



But he is there... and Toronto could have had him if Dubas bothered to look past his mediocre friend.

Thanks for the correction on Leo. It wasn't a trade but a signing, but regardless it was bad at that money.

I've called those moves mediocre, you've called them reasonable. A C+ from me and a B from you. Either way, he didn't exactly ace the material.

And you're off on Toews - he played 20.5 min per game for the Isles in his 2nd year in the NHL. Kid was a stud, and Lou gave him away. Dubas would be raked over coals if he made a deal like that - and deservedly so.

What futures did Lou give away? A pair of 1sts, a young stud dman, and tying up all of their future cap room. He also gave up a bunch of prospects in the Palmeri et all deals, but I don't know enough about them. The fact that Dubas also gave away a 1st is irrelevant to this conversation.

Finally, no - Dubas could not bring Trotz here in 2018, as it was unrealistic to fire Babcock in 2018 (another lovely gift Lou left us).

 

[Superstar]

The karmic fruits of that poor decision ripened this series. Barzal looked like a star... whereas i didn't hear the name Senyshyn called all too often by the announcers

You must have heard DeBrusk at least once, no?

I'm glad Boston screwed up that draft so badly...they had Chabot, Connor and Barzal on the table and didn't hit on anyone of them.

 

[Dreakmur]

Thanks for the correction on Leo. It wasn't a trade but a signing, but regardless it was bad at that money.

I've called those moves mediocre, you've called them reasonable. A C+ from me and a B from you. Either way, he didn't exactly ace the material.

As I’ve said in other threads, assembling a good team is way more that just collecting great players. Lou overpays for role players, but he knows how to assemble a well-functioning roster.

And you're off on Toews - he played 20.5 min per game for the Isles in his 2nd year in the NHL. Kid was a stud, and Lou gave him away. Dubas would be raked over coals if he made a deal like that - and deservedly so.

He was 5th in ice time, with essentially no PK time. He was a 3rd pairing PP specialist who didn’t put up points.

Obviously he had untapped potential, but he wasn’t really valuable to the Islanders.

Two second round picks is not giving away. That’s a good return for a guy that you didn’t need.

 

[Kurtz]

As I’ve said in other threads, assembling a good team is way more that just collecting great players. Lou overpays for role players, but he knows how to assemble a well-functioning roster.



He was 5th in ice time, with essentially no PK time. He was a 3rd pairing PP specialist who didn’t put up points.

Obviously he had untapped potential, but he wasn’t really valuable to the Islanders.

Two second round picks is not giving away. That’s a good return for a guy that you didn’t need.

-If Lou knows how to assemble a well-functioning roster, he didn't show it here. He failed to take advantage of Marner/Matthews/Nylander being stars on entry deals - wasting our ample cap on a bunch of overpaid mediocrity like Marleau and Zaitsev.

-Toews was 4th in ice time, with 20.5 minutes per game - only 2 minutes behind their 1st pairing. He put up 28 points in 68 games as a 2nd year dman on a team not known for their offense.

To suggest that the Islanders, or any team, couldn't use Toews, and that a pair of late 2nd rounders was a good return for a talent like that is silly. The Islanders dealt him because they were running into cap issues due to the overpayments they gave out to the other guys mentioned in this thread - not because they didn't need him.

 

[TMLisSRYinGerman]

Like I said before:
He is a shit GM for a young skill based team, but a good GM for a grit team like NYI.
Stop crying and don't forget how bad he was here.

 

[Donnie740]

Like I said before:
He is a shit GM for a young skill based team, but a good GM for a grit team like NYI.
Stop crying and don't forget how bad he was here.

Problem is “skill based” teams - - aka finesse teams - - don’t win in the playoffs. It’s the grit teams that have post season success.

Just depends on your aspirations - - win a Presidents Trophy or win a Stanley Cup.