We didn’t know what we had
- Thread starter TopG
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
Using a players size is more useless than using +/- as a stat and that's all you're opinion is based on.
New User Name
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2008
- 13,176
- 2,151
Do people here actually think giving up this years first and two 4ths was a good idea?
Do you honestly think even if Foligno was healthy things would have turned out different?
Do you honestly think even if Foligno was healthy things would have turned out different?
Bury your head in the sand all you want.
Fortunately, most Leaf fans are past this stage. Unfortunately for you, you’re not one of them.
Brown Dog
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2007
- 5,855
- 5,206
It's so weird and annoying to me how some fans feel compelled to tout one GM and denigrate the other in these endless (and endlessly dull) Lou vs. Dubas debates.
Don't we all just want to see the Leafs succeed? I swear there is an element of our own fanbase that actually takes some sick pleasure in our failures because it supports this narrative that Lou was superior to Dubas. This need to be validated as "right" over all other needs is so damn toxic.
They've both made good moves and bad moves. The team has had succes and failure with both. Is it so hard to have an intelligent discussion about the team's moves and direction without falling into one "camp" or the other or imposing this "my-favourite-GM-is-better-than-your-favouite-GM" narrative on every topic. Yawn.
Don't we all just want to see the Leafs succeed? I swear there is an element of our own fanbase that actually takes some sick pleasure in our failures because it supports this narrative that Lou was superior to Dubas. This need to be validated as "right" over all other needs is so damn toxic.
They've both made good moves and bad moves. The team has had succes and failure with both. Is it so hard to have an intelligent discussion about the team's moves and direction without falling into one "camp" or the other or imposing this "my-favourite-GM-is-better-than-your-favouite-GM" narrative on every topic. Yawn.
New User Name
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2008
- 13,176
- 2,151
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,548
- 7,825
Lou Lams is slowly destroying the Islanders like he destroyed the Devils and was on his way to destroying the Leafs. Trotz has saved his ass so far, but it wont be long until the chickens come home to roost.
Don't believe me? Take a look at Lou's biggest moves since he got to NYI:
Dealt a 2nd for Andy Green (bad move)
Traded 1st+2nd for Pageau and then gave Pageau 5 mil for 6 years. (two bad moves)
Traded away Devon Toews to Colorado for a pair of 2nds (terrible move. Toews is a young stud playing 25 mpg on the Avs)
Palmieri rental for a 1st (decent move- working out so far)
Traded for two overpaid guys in Matt Martin and Leo Komarov (mediocre moves, but I guess they worked out ok)
Signed Eberle long term for $5mil/per (mediocre move)
Signed Brock Nelson for 6/36 (another mediocre move)
Bridged Barzal (logical move).
Signed 30 year old Anders Lee to 6 years at 42mil (good player but not someone you wanna be paying 7m to for his age 34-36 seasons)
I might be forgetting a major move or two. But look at the above moves. Horrible. He's given up their futures in order to lock in a half dozen solid but unspectacular players to long term, onerous deals. If Trotz wasn't there, NYI would be toast.
Don't believe me? Take a look at Lou's biggest moves since he got to NYI:
Dealt a 2nd for Andy Green (bad move)
Traded 1st+2nd for Pageau and then gave Pageau 5 mil for 6 years. (two bad moves)
Traded away Devon Toews to Colorado for a pair of 2nds (terrible move. Toews is a young stud playing 25 mpg on the Avs)
Palmieri rental for a 1st (decent move- working out so far)
Traded for two overpaid guys in Matt Martin and Leo Komarov (mediocre moves, but I guess they worked out ok)
Signed Eberle long term for $5mil/per (mediocre move)
Signed Brock Nelson for 6/36 (another mediocre move)
Bridged Barzal (logical move).
Signed 30 year old Anders Lee to 6 years at 42mil (good player but not someone you wanna be paying 7m to for his age 34-36 seasons)
I might be forgetting a major move or two. But look at the above moves. Horrible. He's given up their futures in order to lock in a half dozen solid but unspectacular players to long term, onerous deals. If Trotz wasn't there, NYI would be toast.
- Oct 9, 2019
- 4,151
- 5,106
And the team paying them 4.5 combined in the bottom 6 is better than the one playing Marner 25 minutes a night.
New User Name
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2008
- 13,176
- 2,151
I didn't like Lou letting JVR and Bozak walk for nothing. We weren't going anywhere that year and everyone knew we were NOT going to re-sign them. Lou should have traded them at the deadline for picks/prospects. I was vocal about that back then.
Leafs management keeps doing the same things over and over and Leafs fans keep getting their hearts ripped out of their chests over and over .
It's as if they (management) do it on purpose. Can they be this stupid? Obviously the answer is yes.
Polaris1010
Registered User
1. Is this your suggestion?
2. You cannot deny Komarov and Martin on a better team heading for the final four. The Islanders are playing good. They good shot at advancing.
This year's Leafs team would not have beaten Boston or the Islanders.
Heck, they could not even beat the Canadiens when they were up 3-1 in the series.
New User Name
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2008
- 13,176
- 2,151
I hate to admit it but the biggest mistake was Leafs signing JT. I know why they had to, local kid in his prime comes home. Like really when does that happen to the Leafs? NEVER
Stamkos IMO never had any intention to sign here. IMO he used us to try to get more $$$ from TB.
But by signing JT Leafs had to know it drove up the price for Marner and Matthews. They were relying on the cap going up and then covid happens. It sucks but when does good things happen for Leafs fans?
Stamkos IMO never had any intention to sign here. IMO he used us to try to get more $$$ from TB.
But by signing JT Leafs had to know it drove up the price for Marner and Matthews. They were relying on the cap going up and then covid happens. It sucks but when does good things happen for Leafs fans?
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,548
- 7,825
You didn't answer my question - why the f*** would American-born Carlson sign here for $8m when he got the same money to resign with the defending Cup champions at the time? Is he related to Kawhi Leonard or something?
You mean Leafs players get everything they want in negotiations and Dubas doesn’t know what to say?
Based on the results, that’s the only reasonable explanation.
Go read a bit of the Isles board. They’ve got some very good contributors who put his body of work into great context. I think perspective is important in assessing decisions and without it, we’re evaluating moves without knowing the details of why.
Much of this is completely wrong.
I live in reality. In reality, Dubas got oiled up and bent over the negotiating table.
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,548
- 7,825
You seem to have spent an inordinate amount of time scouring the Isles board for some reason. I'm not nearly the masochist that you appear to be, so if you'd like to expand on how me summarizing Lou's moves is wrong, please feel free to elaborate.
Thrasymachus
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2018
- 5,255
- 6,773
Me too
also just chiming in to say I don't think Lou is perfect, and OP of this thread is probably overlooking the roster he inherited slightly. Isles had a pretty gritty team before Lou's arrival so to say that is all his doing isn't exactly accurate.
the best move Lou made for us was getting Trotz... and Trotz said his main reason for coming aboard was his respect for Lou, so...
yubbers
Grown Menzez
- May 1, 2013
- 37,443
- 6,749
Actually, we're not familiar with 6 playoff round wins since Lou left. You can't compare the 2. It's 6-0 Islanders
Not specifically theirs, I enjoy reading a number of different posters from several fanbases. Isn’t that the point of the site?
I was trying to politely give you a heads up that you might want to do some homework but given the tone, I’d prefer you carry on and continue looking ignorant.
All the best!
yubbers
Grown Menzez
- May 1, 2013
- 37,443
- 6,749
Both have far more success in the playoffs than Marner due to being team players.
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,548
- 7,825
Please don't use this condescending tone with me. You've made a silly statement and I simply asked you to expand on it. I'll be more delicate with you next time if you wish, but do explain yourself.
Thrasymachus
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2018
- 5,255
- 6,773
His biggest strength IMO is his respectability
he has made some good trades, a few bad signings... but it is the respectability he brought us that has been crucial. Islanders were a laughing stock even after ditching Wang and getting legit owners... it was Lou who helped wash the stink of failure off the team and change the culture for the better.
Without a doubt Trotz is a bigger difference maker, but that just brings me back to why Lou is good for the isles... he is so respected. We were able to entice Trotz for the most part based on Trotz' esteem for Lou.
That couldn't be further from the truth and I really really hope you don't honestly believe what you just said.
- Status
