We didn’t know what we had

[egd27]

Like my dad used to say “if IF’s and BUT’s were candy and nuts everyday would be Christmas.” Or Arnold Palmer: “ the harder I work, the luckier I get.”

Trotz hired as coach of Islanders after leaving Capitals

"When you step down you take some chances," Trotz said. "I was obviously pleasantly surprised I got a call almost immediately once word got out in the inner circles. I said, 'I'm in, I want to listen.' ... [Islanders general manager Lou Lamoriello] told me about his vision and his plan for his team, what he's already done in a very short period of time, changing a lot of things, changing the culture and all that. I love that. That's what they hired me to do in Washington, change a little bit of the culture, try to win a Stanley Cup. So we're going to try and do the same thing on the Island."

"He brings experience, he brings knowledge and he brings success, which is the most important thing," Lamoriello said. "You have to win. He knows how to win, and he's a good human being. So I think he's a great role model for what we're trying to do as far as bring to the organization."

"I think that what we had said [was] we would try to get the best coach available, and when time is on your side, you use it," Lamoriello said. "We were in no rush. There were several people that we could've considered. When this transpired, I think it's obvious that we tried to do it as soon as we possibly could."

So what differs in what Lou & Trotz trying to do compared to what Kyle & Keefe are trying to do?

 

[Mickey Marner]

More like Shanahan didn't know what he was doing.

 

[notbias]

In the broader discussion of what constitutes equivalent education for someone whose never played or coached competitively, Brisebois spent almost a decade under Steve Yzerman. He was a sponge who soaked in a wealth of information, and didn’t think he knew better than those who’ve advanced before him.

Dubas was the kid who threatened to run away (to Colorado) and the parents (Shanahan) caved in and allowed him to do something he wasn’t ready for.

I am convinced that you have brain damage, there is no way you are trying to have the same convo as a couple days ago about how someone needs to have all this experience to run a team, but also ignore people like Lou (who you praised) who had no experience.

End of the day, does anything think NYI is built to win the cup this year or in the next few years, or are they likely to lose to TBL or VGK/COL?

I would rather a GM that is trying to build a championship team than a very good team.

At the end of the day, you are all mad because we didn't meet expectations, which is hilarious that you are mad at Dubas since he is the reason you have raised expectations. He has quickly improved this team (look at the D under Lou vs now), and now you have higher expectations because of it.

 

[Garthinater]

Look at all the dubas defenders out in force!

I thought you guys would've given up after 2 embarrassing losses. But it appears that even a 3rd wasn't enough to shake your misplaced trust in dubas.

How many times do we need to lose before you guys accept that dubas has no idea what he's doing?

 

[showtime8]

I could live with it too but mostly used it as an example that Lou's not some god that would have made everything better. he has made his bad moves too
the aav is fine but the term is too long for Martin.
I like him but thats a long time for a 32 year old 4th liner.
would much rather him then Simmonds though

Yeah, the term doesn't really bother me that much. And it definitely does not bother Lou. His roster is full of guys that will play well into their mid 30's.

If you think about what the Leafs have done in the past couple years to find replacements for that 3rd/4th line grinder role that does everything Matt Martin does. They've tried it with Wayne Simmonds, who was effective prior to the injury, but doesn't have the legs for the role. Money was the same as what Martin is getting paid. Kyle Clifford was part of the LA trade with Campbell, but I thought was very effective in what he provided. But you couldn't sign him because of the 2nd round pick attached to compensation. Prior to that in 2018-19, they didn't really have that role on the team. Going back to 2017-18, they had both Komarov and Martin on the team. So for a better part of 4 years, the Leafs have been looking for that 3rd line role where a guy can hit, skate and fight.

And that's where I was referring to in knowing exactly what you have in a player vs. hoping to find that guy on a yearly basis. It's very similar to letting a player go to free agency with hopes that you have that rookie/young player to fill that role. The problem is, when that young player doesn't fit well, or under-performs, you get questioned as to why you let the veteran go. I think that's the same thing with penciling in a guy like Nick Robertson to fill in a top 6 role or Liljegren in the top 6. You don't know if he can play a full 82 and you don't know exactly what you're getting.

 

[egd27]

I would rather a GM that is trying to build a championship team than a very good team.

Me too.......do you know of any that are available?

 

[Garthinater]

I am convinced that you have brain damage, there is no way you are trying to have the same convo as a couple days ago about how someone needs to have all this experience to run a team, but also ignore people like Lou (who you praised) who had no experience.

End of the day, does anything think NYI is built to win the cup this year or in the next few years, or are they likely to lose to TBL or VGK/COL?

I would rather a GM that is trying to build a championship team than a very good team.

At the end of the day, you are all mad because we didn't meet expectations, which is hilarious that you are mad at Dubas since he is the reason you have raised expectations. He has quickly improved this team (look at the D under Lou vs now), and now you have higher expectations because of it.

If there's anyone with brain damage, its you.

What expectations did dudas raise?

We lost in the first round twice with lou.

Dubas took over and now we have 1 first round loss, 1 qualifier round loss and another first round loss to the habs.

We have literally gone backwards or stayed the same for 3 years!

Its also hilarious that you doubt the islanders who have gone further than us each of the last 3 years. I bet last year you said the same thing and yet they are going to the semi finals while we are golfing, again.

Do you even realize how out to lunch you are? You have nothing but your opinion when all the facts are against you.

 

[Cams]

No kidding - - what a laughably naive comment.

This years team has the most humiliating playoff collapse in the 100+ year franchise history but Analytics Fanboi cheers the “results”

Really..... more embarrassing than being up 4-1 with 9 minutes to go in the 3rd in game 7 against Boston?

Better get your knee examined....these knee jerk reactions sound painful

 

[Trapper]

I'm talking about how the Leafs had a similar run in the late 90s and early 2000s and then everything went to shit because they kept trading picks and didn't know to draft, develop or use the cap.

The isles future may not be as bad but look at their talent and look at their cap situation and tell me with a straight face that it's being managed well. And they're probably going to add Zach Parise to the mix in the offseason too.

All I know is too many people talk about other teams that shouldn’t do this and shouldn’t do that and it’s not sustainable, they will regret it and we shouldn’t trade this because, because and all we do is lose.

And as for today, above you said:
Everything went to shit because they kept trading picks: oops, and oops. We did that.

Didn’t know how to draft: jury is still out on that but we don’t have any clear cut impact players on cheap contracts to exceed those contracts. 3 years to Matthews/Nylander UFA.

And finally you said cap situation:
Oh my. Give me a second to stop laughing at this one. 4 forwards, half the cap, flat cap, sure. Yeah need more than a second to stop laughing actually.

We are everything you said above. We just have a Tony Robbins GM, nicer clothes and less playoff wins.

 

[lottster14]

Lou was an above average GM. Dubas went ahead and paid everyone before they earned anything (no playoff success), but people are still in denial and defend him.

It's no surprise Matt Martin is still in the playoffs. Dubas brought in Simmonds and Foligno to do what he once did with ease. They have failed. Martin single handedly brought the energy to the 4th line, and it extended to all other lines as well. Guy was awesome and a great locker room presence too.

 

[notbias]

If there's anyone with brain damage, its you.

What expectations did dudas raise?

We lost in the first round twice with lou.

Dubas took over and now we have 1 first round loss, 1 qualifier round loss and another first round loss to the habs.

We have literally gone backwards or stayed the same for 3 years!

Its also hilarious that you doubt the islanders who have gone further than us each of the last 3 years. I bet last year you said the same thing and yet they are going to the semi finals while we are golfing, again.

Do you even realize how out to lunch you are? You have nothing but your opinion when all the facts are against you.

Do you think NYI is a championship-caliber team? Not can they win, anyone can, but do you believe they are likely to win against VGK/COL/TBL?

Let's model ourselves like the 3rd round teams Montreal or NYI.

We need to trade each of Matthews, Marner, Tavares for middle-six forwards, a Nylander type player should be our top player.
We need to trade any skilled puck-moving D so Sandin/Rielly need to go for some large D with a booming shot.
Then we need to hire Babcock or Tortz.

This is sounding kind of good, but we need a GM to do this for us, lets get Jim Rutherford.

Done! We are now going to make the 3rd round, everyone is happy now.

 

[sparxx87]

I am convinced that you have brain damage, there is no way you are trying to have the same convo as a couple days ago about how someone needs to have all this experience to run a team, but also ignore people like Lou (who you praised) who had no experience.

End of the day, does anything think NYI is built to win the cup this year or in the next few years, or are they likely to lose to TBL or VGK/COL?

I would rather a GM that is trying to build a championship team than a very good team.

At the end of the day, you are all mad because we didn't meet expectations, which is hilarious that you are mad at Dubas since he is the reason you have raised expectations. He has quickly improved this team (look at the D under Lou vs now), and now you have higher expectations because of it.

One captained a collegiate hockey team and made his bones proving he knew how to operate a successful franchise.

The other never made it out of minor hockey and skipped the line because of his grandfather.

The only people that argue experience isn’t necessary for a position like this, seem to be the ones with no experience and an incredible lack of perspective.

 

[Bomber0104]

Lou was an above average GM. Dubas went ahead and paid everyone before they earned anything (no playoff success), but people are still in denial and defend him.

It's no surprise Matt Martin is still in the playoffs. Dubas brought in Simmonds and Foligno to do what he once did with ease. They have failed. Martin single handedly brought the energy to the 4th line, and it extended to all other lines as well. Guy was awesome and a great locker room presence too.

Yeah but he makes as much as Wayne Simmonds did this year.

That's...um...bad I'm told?

 

[lottster14]

He's responsible for 4 players taking up 40 AAV.

it's never going to work.

He needs to go.

If Marner really only wanted 10.8 to stay the answer should have been trade or bridge.

In the cap world, you never overpay RFAs.

When he made tons of moves at the deadline after the moves he made in the latest offseason, I knew it was going to backfire. I remember posting in the TDL thread

"Leafs have made more trades than any team by far this deadline. It almost gets into 'buying a championship' territory, the hockey Gods don't like that kind of thing"

No one agreed with me and people compared it to Tampa last year making moves at the deadline. We are not freaking Tampa.

 

[Garthinater]

I swear that every game that the Leafs lose, every playoff series, it results in the majority of this fan base heading into mind numbing stupidity. It's as if the Leafs stole your girlfriend, and touched your pee pee, level of anger, without much thought. Over reaction, lack of logic and so on. I get passion, but this is passion like that abusive ex level of weirdness passion. It's time for plenty of people to get outside, enjoy the summer, go golfing with our Leafs maybe, and forget about this team for a while. I think I'll take some time off too... do something things we enjoy, not post about how angry and personally aggrieved you are.

I swear, ever year when we lose in embarrassing fashion, there are posters like you who just want to continue on with more of the same. Insanity.

But its gotten even weirder with dubas. For some reason his fans have deluded themselves into thinking he's the best gm even though he has no positive results. I'm not sure if its because they too never played hockey and so they hope this stats nerd can make it and blaze a trail for future brock University kids.

Are not tired of losing in the first round?

Dubas inherited a 105 point team and has lost for 3 years in a row in our first series.

Lou went to an 80 point islanders team, has got past the first round each year and is in the semi finals right now.

The dubas defenders will tell you that dubas is amazing and Lou is trash yet one has basically only positive results and the other is named kyle.

 

[Garthinater]

Do you think NYI is a championship-caliber team? Not can they win, anyone can, but do you believe they are likely to win against VGK/COL/TBL?

Let's model ourselves like the 3rd round teams Montreal or NYI.

We need to trade each of Matthews, Marner, Tavares for middle-six forwards, a Nylander type player should be our top player.
We need to trade any skilled puck-moving D so Sandin/Rielly need to go for some large D with a booming shot.
Then we need to hire Babcock or Tortz.

This is sounding kind of good, but we need a GM to do this for us, lets get Jim Rutherford.

Done! We are now going to make the 3rd round, everyone is happy now.

Is there something wrong with you?

Who said anything about modeling ourselves after Montreal and the islanders? Do you just enjoy making strawman arguments?

Clearly you are far too biased and not able to have a rational discussion.

 

[Bomber0104]

I swear, ever year when we lose in embarrassing fashion, there are posters like you who just want to continue on with more of the same. Insanity.

But its gotten even weirder with dubas. For some reason his fans have deluded themselves into thinking he's the best gm even though he has no positive results. I'm not sure if its because they too never played hockey and so they hope this stats nerd can make it and blaze a trail for future brock University kids.

Are not tired of losing in the first round?

Dubas inherited a 105 point team and has lost for 3 years in a row in our first series.

Lou went to an 80 point islanders team, has got past the first round each year and is in the semi finals right now.

The dubas defenders will tell you that dubas is amazing and Lou is trash yet one has basically only positive results and the other is named kyle.

Dubas and Shanny keep talking about vision this, vision that..

You know who else had "visions"?

 

[mikeyz]

2nd year in a row they make the Semi finals...this level of denial is just funny.

It really is incredible.

The Dubas fanboys on this board make more excuses for him then a do nothing politician does explaining broken promises for why nothing got done.

Like. What more does this crowd need to see at this point??? Lol.

He's been a MASSIVE disappointment.

 

[lottster14]

Yeah but he makes as much as Wayne Simmonds did this year.

That's...um...bad I'm told?

Dubas is allowed to overpay anyone, he is the sweetheart, soft talking, extremely intelligent, analytics professional! He also might be 15. He kind of looks 15.

 

[hotpaws]

End of the day, does anything think NYI is built to win the cup this year or in the next few years, or are they likely to lose to TBL or VGK/COL?

I would rather a GM that is trying to build a championship team than a very good team.

At the end of the day, you are all mad because we didn't meet expectations, which is hilarious that you are mad at Dubas since he is the reason you have raised expectations. He has quickly improved this team (look at the D under Lou vs now), and now you have higher expectations because of it.

at the end of the day a new GM plays the hand he took over but few walked into a hand Dubas was gifted and every GM is trying to build a cup winning team

also at the end of the day Dubas didn't raise expectations , playing in an extremely weak division did

 

[mikeyz]

I never said any of that eh? Great post though friend.

He wasn't a good GM in Toronto. If you wanna give him credit for every little thing that happens on the island be my guest, and go buy a jersey of your favorite team too.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And Dubas has been?? LMFAO.

 

[Garthinater]

Why do so many people just choose to live in the past... Barry trotz is the main reason why the islanders have improved so much, not Lou.

Everyday there's new threads about old leafs here. Move on with your life.

Who hired trotz?

Who hired keefe?

Does the gm not get credit for who he hires as coach?

It's amazing the lengths you dubas fan boys will go to in order to discredit lou.

 

[Anthrax442]

I remember that fans were ready to drive Alex Anthopolous to the airport they were so fed up with him, and he managed to get Price and Tulo and the team took off and made the playoffs, and the fans still sing his praises even tho the team didnt make it past 2nd round.

Winning cures all. Lou was just okay, but he is winning now. Dubas is just okay but he is not winning. That is all. If the Leafs didnt shit the bed and be in 3rd round now, noone would remember Lou's name

 

[sparxx87]

at the end of the day a new GM plays the hand he took over and every GM is trying to build a cup winning team

also at the end of the day Dubas didn't raise expectations , playing in an extremely weak division did

I guess it’s different for anyone.

For me, I thought this team was on a championship trajectory in the Washington and first Boston series.

Fundamental changes made that offseason altered their path and it’s never quite had the same promise... for me, anyway.

 

[Cams]

I swear, ever year when we lose in embarrassing fashion, there are posters like you who just want to continue on with more of the same. Insanity.

But its gotten even weirder with dubas. For some reason his fans have deluded themselves into thinking he's the best gm even though he has no positive results. I'm not sure if its because they too never played hockey and so they hope this stats nerd can make it and blaze a trail for future brock University kids.

Are not tired of losing in the first round?

Dubas inherited a 105 point team and has lost for 3 years in a row in our first series.

Lou went to an 80 point islanders team, has got past the first round each year and is in the semi finals right now.

The dubas defenders will tell you that dubas is amazing and Lou is trash yet one has basically only positive results and the other is named kyle.

Lou also had Barry Trotz fall into his lap.
re: Martin - Lou signed Martin to a multi year deal and Lou's coach refused to play him after year 1. Is that on Dubas? The Leafs were forced to mercy trade him back to NY for what amounts to nothing.

What happens if the Isles lose in the semis? I know.....they actually don't win anything.

And please get off the "Dubas fans on here haven't played hockey BS, stats nerds, etc." Unless you can present your glowing resume, and you just turned down a bunch of GM jobs to be a HF poster.