We didn’t know what we had

[Aus34Matt]

 

[sparxx87]

You're welcome to call Lou and the insiders, but I'm not sure they'd pickup.

Well, if they knew it was to discuss the merits of an unsubstantiated rumour from several years ago, I wouldn’t pick up, either.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Also q… how come Dubas gets in shit for the Big 4 signings but never praise for the Brodie, Muzzin, Spezza, among other deals? Simmonds for 1 mil. Shit there’s more im sure.

Because the team keeps losing in humiliating fashion in the first round. If the team was actually succeeding, everyone would of course be more focused on the good things he did.

 

[Gallagbi]

not to mention, didn’t Lou break some tampering rules cause he was talking to Tavares while still signed to the Leafs, as if he worked for New York?

Maybe, but I'd just assume that's because he was in on it at that point and wanted to help Dubas incase ppl on a message board complained.

In truth, I think a lot of UFAs find their top market and then pick the best situation. It's not always about the most money - quality of life, circumstances, etc.. all play into it

 

[Donnie740]

Also q… how come Dubas gets in shit for the Big 4 signings but never praise for the Brodie, Muzzin, Spezza, among other deals? Simmonds for 1 mil. Shit there’s more im sure.

Because results.

 

[Kurtz]

They're about to play a team that has a salary cap of almost 100 million.

$99 million.

Islanders themselves are at $89m. They just beat Boston who were at $81 and Pitt who were at $82.

 

[Superstar]

he wasn't a franchise C when he signed after his second year , he got the going rate for his production to that point and his future potential

teams hardly ever refute the rumors but watch how almost every time a ufa signs a deal he says he was offered more , lol , then the insiders pull out a mystery team or two that it could be , then a short time later it's taken like a fact

but hey if makes you feel better believing someone else was going to also overpay JT than have at er

Tavares was definitely a franchise centre...he was drafted #1 as a franchise centre, and was named the Isles captain a year into his second contract. He could have squeezed for more money from the Isles on his second contract if he wanted to.

UFA left winger Artemi Panarin signed for 7 years at $81.5 million, an AAV of $11.64 million a year later after Tavares signed...if Tavares didn't signed with Leafs, he would have signed with another team for similar or more money.

You could argue the merits of whether it was the right move to pay a UFA of his stature that much money, but that's not the same as saying he was overpaid.

 

[Gallagbi]

Well, if they knew it was to discuss the merits of an unsubstantiated rumour from several years ago, I wouldn’t pick up, either.

Unsubstantiated in what respect? We pitched Stamkos with significant rumours about the numbers. We're also all basically aware of NYI trying to retain Tavares with Barzal.

 

[killer1980]

Clearly, the team performed no better for Keefe than they did for Babcock. From my perspective even worse. At some point, when do we ask the question, maybe it's the kids?

 

[ToneDog]

Tavares was definitely a franchise centre...he was drafted #1 as a franchise centre, and was named the Isles captain a year into his second contract. He could have squeezed for more money from the Isles on his second contract if he wanted to.

UFA left winger Artemi Panarin signed for 7 years at $81.5 million, an AAV of $11.64 million a year later after Tavares signed...if Tavares didn't signed with Leafs, he would have signed with another team for similar or more money.

You could argue the merits of whether it was the right move to pay a UFA of his stature that much money, but that's not the same as saying he was overpaid.

JT could have opened the bidding to more teams that he did and surely would have received more money elsewhere. Isles had an offer on the table for 11x8 and JT signed here for 11x7. He did not come cheap but he clearly took a discount.

 

[sparxx87]

Unsubstantiated in what respect? We pitched Stamkos with significant rumours about the numbers. We're also all basically aware of NYI trying to retain Tavares with Barzal.

Unconfirmed rumours are unsubstantiated. You said $12.5M, I’d be interested to see it.

Again, this opens up more questions, not answers.

...and Barzal was RFA, organization has the leverage.

 

[Gallagbi]

JT could have opened the bidding to more teams that he did and surely would have received more money elsewhere. Isles had an offer on the table for 11x8 and JT signed here for 11x7. He did not come cheap but he clearly took a discount.

What was the SJ offer? 13x7?

 

[Gallagbi]

Unconfirmed rumours are unsubstantiated. You said $12.5M, I’d be interested to see it.

You're welcome to google. Here's what we know
1. Leafs pitched Stamkos
2. Stamkos resigns in TB for $68M.
3. TB is in a lower tax state, generally gets a discount for that
4. Rumours for the Leafs range up to 14M/yr

I think it's safe to say Lou was interested in signing another guy to be a big money UFA with this core, no?

...and Barzal was RFA, organization has the leverage.

Your initial point was that we signed Tavares to be a #2 and Lou wouldn't have. Barzal would be fighting him for that #1 spot, potentially making JT......the #2!

 

[sparxx87]

You're welcome to google. Here's what we know
1. Leafs pitched Stamkos
2. Stamkos resigns in TB for $68M.
3. TB is in a lower tax state, generally gets a discount for that
4. Rumours for the Leafs range up to 14M/yr

I think it's safe to say Lou was interested in signing another guy to be a big money UFA with this core, no?0@


Your initial point was that we signed Tavares to be a #2 and Lou wouldn't have. Barzal would be fighting him for that #1 spot, potentially making JT......the #2!

No, I asked what that poster thought he’d pay for his 2C. I don’t believe 12.5.

You’ve given me unsubstantiated rumours of numbers that we don’t know.

How do we know Stamkos didn’t take the same or even more money in Tampa? You’re assuming a lot about a different player with different subsequent transactions that could have came and assuming we can just draw a direct parallel.

There’s so much nuance in this, you seem to be trying to broaden it.

 

[Mess]

losing in the semis two years in a row isn’t progress….

Just curious but if the NYI's do lose as the underdogs to the Stanley Cup champs, and thus end at final 4 in 2 straight years that will be viewed as no progress, but should our Leafs win even a single round #1 next year would that be viewed as success because of progress?

The NYI's have won round #1 for 3 straight years.

If so that would seem to be grading teams seasons on progress by different measures of success.

The NYI's can win 2 rounds, but not get to the SCF were only 2 of 31 teams can each year play in the finals for the Cup. This achievement is not easy as our Leafs haven't even played in a single SCF game even once since their Cup in 1967.

Losing in round #3 vs winning round #1 would seem like false equivalents to measure a teams season, as it appears you would be grading it against itself, and not verses all the rest of the NHL.

Or do you mean this is terms of not winning at any round is still disappointing?.

 

[Gallagbi]

No, I asked what that poster thought he’d pay for his 2C. I don’t believe 12.5.

You’ve given me unsubstantiated rumours of numbers that we don’t know.

How do we know Stamkos didn’t take more money in Tampa? You’re assuming a lot about a different player and assuming we can just draw a direct parallel.

There’s so much nuance in this, you seem to be trying to broaden it.

I mean I've used the two biggest UFAs that Lou pitched in Stamkos and Tavares. Both situations where they could have ended up as the #2C.

I've given you widely reported situations that suggest high numbers. I did throw out the 12.5M, which incredibly wasn't the highest. I've also given you the widely reported Isles situation.

So far I haven't really heard anything to dissuade me from believing Lou was willing to pay big money to a UFA center who may not be the #1.

 

[hockeyes]

Ultimately, putting a rookie GM in charge for the most important years of a rebuilding team will go down as one of the stupidest mistakes ever made in sports. The writing is on the wall, this team is heading back to floundering for years as a bubble team.

 

[PromisedLand]

That Marleau, Zaitsev deals, and trading 2nds for 4th liners was pretty awesome.
I know I don't want that GM.
Tell me the great moves he made here?

I wonder if Dubas has the BALLS or the BRAINS to make a contract like Phaneuf disappear without retaining any of it and then introduce a new place called the Robidas Island

yea Lou operated with the full cap and did not even make the playoffs against a team like CBJ


LMAO
Dubas fans live in a wonderland. I wonder if it is the Toronto Maple Leafs or Kyle Dubas Maple Leafs

 

[PromisedLand]

Absolute clinic by the islanders in puck possession and closing out the Bruins. Dubas is a soft stats nerd and the team played like their GM. Talent and but no will to win.

Sorry but I don't agree. Dubas has absolutely "zero" talent or foresight or insight or management aptitude or hockey aptitude

 

[ottomaddox]

Shanny did not know what he had.

The structure used to be:

Shanny Prez
Lou GM
Hunter AGM
Dubas AGM

WHY DIDNT THIS REMAIN?

JUST PAY THEM AND KEEP THEM!

 

[Mess]

Ultimately, putting a rookie GM in charge for the most important years of a rebuilding team will go down as one of the stupidest mistakes ever made in sports. The writing is on the wall, this team is heading back to floundering for years as a bubble team.

This was a golden once in a century pandemic infused opportunity for the Leafs to reach the final 4, because all they had to do is beat 3 other CDN teams to make the playoffs, and then Montreal and Winnipeg to get there.

There is never going to be an easier opportunity than that and had the Leafs been sitting where Montreal is now this management team would have bought themselves years of time based off of that success alone.

However next year we return to normal season and normal divisions and the road to the Cup will go through TB and/or Boston in rounds #1 and #2 and we can't even rule out Florida who are coming on strong or Montreal who we just lost to, when battling for a playoff spot or a wild card.

The road to proving it for this management group in what seems like their final chance next year, just got a while lot harder when you have to play the entire NHL again and face much higher QofC to advance through the playoffs.

 

[sparxx87]

I mean I've used the two biggest UFAs that Lou pitched in Stamkos and Tavares. Both situations where they could have ended up as the #2C.

I've given you widely reported situations that suggest high numbers. I did throw out the 12.5M, which incredibly wasn't the highest. I've also given you the widely reported Isles situation.

So far I haven't really heard anything to dissuade me from believing Lou was willing to pay big money to a UFA center who may not be the #1.

Ok, but the problem is $33M in 3 forwards. Every move made or not made creates a different circumstance for the next move, particularly with big ticket.

I have more questions than answers to your rumours/theory that would need to be answered, and that’s why I asked about Marner.

I’m not trying to sell you on anything and I told you in the first response, I don’t know all the details.

Not sure exactly what you’re looking for?

 

[Dreakmur]

$99 million.

That's almost 100.

Islanders themselves are at $89m. They just beat Boston who were at $81 and Pitt who were at $82.

Yes, the Islanders used LTIR... on players that aren't playing.

 

[Kurtz]

That's almost 100.



Yes, the Islanders used LTIR... on players that aren't playing.

And so did the Lightning with Gaborik and Nilsson.

 

[Peasy]

@Peasy Man. You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to trying to defend Dubas aren't you? LMFAO.

Please show me where in my post I am defending dubas. Not thinking that Lou is a God and that he would have done wonders with this team does not mean that I think dubas has done an amazing job. Stop trying to make a strawman.

Leaf fans do this constantly. Someone leaves the organization, has some success and it's suddenly the end of the world, should have never let them go, the success they're having with that other organization could have been us if we just kept them!!!!!

Sorry, that's not how this works.