We didn’t know what we had

[deprw]

No other team tried to sign this Stanley cup winning coach?

It was only lou that wanted this coach?

Wow lou is even better than I thought!

You can look up how many coaches get sacked every year and how soon they have replacements in place. I don't remember time that someone was straight out sacked for better option.

 

[Superstar]

He is the signing that re-set the internal cap structure.

Point was, adding that salary cost them important players on their team. That was not a good move if no single player is bigger than the team.

Dubas didn't draw the line and allowed it to happen. I hear some arguments that was creeping up like "RFA is the new UFA" to justify some of the overpayments made by Dubas. If "RFA is the new UFA", then why Nylander, Matthews and Marner didn't sign 8 year deals (to give up more UFA years to the Leafs), but signed shorter term deals to get to UFA sooner? (Of course they know that they could make more money as UFAs).

 

[nuck]

It appears Dubas is learning on the job, which is too bad...over-compensated this year with grit...even Chris Johnston on a recent podcast with Steve Dangle, Jesse Blake and Adam Wylde says that next year Dubas would lean back towards skill.

Jesus I would hope that isn't Dubas take away here. Foligno wasn't a fail because he had grit, the guy got hurt (although not sure if he had the stuff left to really produce). The issue wasn't too much grit, it was too much past their prime grit. These would have been great adds two or three years ago but then the club couldn't have afforded them. The Leafs were 27th in hits this year and the Habs were 1st so it was pretty much automatic how the teams were going to play. If they try and add skill using their grit budget who could they afford?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I like John Tavares, it’s no slight to him.. but the team player I’m looking for in my #2C slot in a salary cap world makes between $4.5M-6 or 7M.

If he wants to be a team player under those parameters, great. Otherwise, no thank you. Good #2 centres are far more obtainable than Mitch Marner or Auston Matthews, my core forward building blocks

That's an important point. Pointing to the fact that Tavares took a bit less to play in Toronto doesn't help or mean much.

The more important question or issue is was this best plan in a cap league? I'd only hope that alternative plans were considered and scrutinized under the scrutiny of resource allocation and team needs.

At the time, I also wondered what message that sent to other young stars who were needing new contracts.

 

[sparxx87]

Accomplish that with millionaires that think that they are the best there ever was or will be. Who want manors, girls and fancy cars. Those players have people telling that to them everyday. Even if there is no reason to believe that. Though if those players want to really succeed, they have to be that way. Bit floated ego and huge confidence, but still team players.

You’re right, it’s hard, but that’s why culture is so important in professional sports.

Lamoriello builds winning culture.

Not sure what to call this thing Dubas has built.

 

[egd27]

Until Trotz became available, this job was D J Smith's, as in pen was almost to paper. So yes.....fell into their lap.

Given that Trotz likely had several options, sounds more like he wanted to work with Lou

"When you step down you take some chances," Trotz said. "I was obviously pleasantly surprised I got a call almost immediately once word got out in the inner circles. I said, 'I'm in, I want to listen.' ... [Islanders general manager Lou Lamoriello] told me about his vision and his plan for his team, what he's already done in a very short period of time, changing a lot of things, changing the culture and all that. I love that. That's what they hired me to do in Washington, change a little bit of the culture, try to win a Stanley Cup.

 

[hotpaws]

You mean Pietrangelo? It's one option to wait for that opportunity and it might not come. Tavares was there then. You can't count on that either, because that was rare case franchise player leaving in his prime.

It's easy to be captain hindsight in this.

not hindsight at all , you said when you have a chance to sign a num 1 C you do it so Dubas should have also signed Petro and then figured out how to fit him if we're going by your logic

 

[justashadowof]

It appears Dubas is learning on the job, which is too bad...over-compensated this year with grit...even Chris Johnston on a recent podcast with Steve Dangle, Jesse Blake and Adam Wylde says that next year Dubas would lean back towards skill.

Over compensated on grit? There was barely a complete player with grit added in practise. A half season of Wayne Simmonds' aching bones and 11 games (4 playoff games) of "Bad Back" Foligno? Clifford was roughly the same level of grit to what those two delivered. Bogosian on defense who is a defense type that the team (and most teams) have every season. High-larious to spin this as some all-in commitment to grit.

 

[Kurtz]

Another big swing and a miss.

Andrew Ladd contract (signed by Snow) is what created a cap crunch. It basically came down to Barzal vs Toews, and they had a deep young blueline so chose to give from there.

Lou said he wanted to keep him, but such is life of successful teams in a salary cap world.

Meanwhile, Dubas has shipped away 3/4 of the roster to fix his cap due to moves he made, and still hasn’t won a thing.

Which would you prefer?

Look, I promised to be more gentle with you so I'll hold to that, but if you are absolving Lou of all blame for not being able to afford to pay Toews $4.1 mil when he was the one that filled his team with guys like Komarov @ $3 mil/per, then I think you are viewing the guy through unbelievable rose-coloured glasses.

 

[Coachcorner]

Congratulations Lou, wish we'd you still. You got the winners too with y'all. Komarov, Martin, Matt. Cheap too, they still hit and win, in the playoffs You know ice hockey. You win and did it. Again. You don't pay players too much neither. Still winning, warrioring it up. Last year you was winning the jack adams, easily. Our gm doesn't. Last year you was in the conference finals, this time again.

That's hard right thurr. You was and still is the realest out there Too baad we ain't have the youngest. Not as great as you ever will. When you have a gem, you keep it. Congratulations Lou, you done did it again.

 

[sparxx87]

Dubas didn't draw the line and allowed it to happen. I hear some arguments that was creeping up like "RFA is the new UFA" to justify some of the overpayments made by Dubas. If "RFA is the new UFA", then why Nylander, Matthews and Marner didn't sign 8 year deals (to give up more UFA years to the Leafs), but signed shorter term deals to get to UFA sooner? (Of course they know that they could make more money as UFAs).

But they were never going to be able to fit the guys they really wanted to keep once Tavares signed.

That’s why this was so frustrating. This whole situation today was so very predictable.

 

[Mess]

How many sports organizations would think its a good idea to switch their general managers coming off a 100 year franchise all-time best points and wins season?

** Particularly one that inherited a team that missed the playoffs 9 of the last 10 years and was crashing to last overall, and after drafting their franchise player, improved it by +26 points and took it into the playoffs the very next season, while that GM was receiving executive of the year recognition for that 180 degree turnaround **

Oh, did I mention this GM has over 30 years of experience, qualified for five Stanley Cup Finals (in 1995, 2000, 2001, 2003, and 2012) and won the Stanley Cup three times (in 1995, 2000, and 2003), as a proven winner, and is already in that sports hall of fame as a builder since 2009, and also the US hockey hall of fame since 2012, recognized for his excellence in team building and success in that sport.

Then to solidify this point further, upon his release this GM inherits a new 2 X non playoff team, which loses its franchise #1C and best player to free agency as he is walking in the door, and instantly leads that new team through 6 series wins in 3 years, including 2 X final 4 appearances (and counting) in the last 2 years and wins Exec of the year in 2020 as the best at his position amongst his peers.

And before anyone calls bullpucky

, claiming that is a complete nonsensical fictional fabrication that would never happen in real life. I can reassure you this is a 100% true story, I know because I'm living this nightmare out in real time.

Wait a second, stop laughing , I haven't even given you the punchline yet !!!!!

The team that thought this was a good idea on timing, turned its reigns over to a greenhorn GM with little to no experience, while inheriting a 105 point team that just finished 6th overall, and then also gifted for free that same #1C and franchise player I mentioned the other team above lost. Now this GM lead this team to embarrassing 1st round losses against non playoff teams in non pandemic years as CBJ wouldn't have made the playoffs without a new 24 team play-in format, and Montreal wouldn't qualify for the playoffs if the NHL hadn't created an new all CDN div and forced 4 teams into the playoffs while eliminating the 2 wildcard spots and sending better teams home packing.

Some would say this team is getting exactly what it deserves, if that was its actual free will choice and level of incompetence in decision making, and it would be hard to dispute through rebuttal based on the case, and irrefutable evidence presented.. All I could say would be welcome to my nightmare and the world of being a Leafs fan.

Rest assured management has told us everything is going as planned, no worries be happy, as they plan of staying the course they're on, and everything will be fine trust them.

 

[ottomaddox]

If only Shanny/Dubas and company had won something.

We would never see things like this posted here.

 

[hoglund]

Lou locks out Nylander and bridges MaMa.

Overpaying RFAs is a total joke.

who's "MaMa"?

 

[sparxx87]

Look, I promised to be more gentle with you so I'll hold to that, but if you are absolving Lou of all blame for not being able to afford to pay Toews $4.1 mil when he was the one that filled his team with guys like Komarov @ $3 mil/per, then I think you are viewing the guy through unbelievable rose-coloured glasses.

Don’t worry about being gentle, you can swing as hard as you’d like with wrong and twisted information. You just make yourself looks silly.

As I said, carry on.

Someone already explained the Toews situation and you’ve buried your head in the sand. Let’s see how long you can hold your breath.

Edit: And check Komorov’s game logs - he’s on their first line, and always out in the last minute to defend leads.

Best coach in the world thinks he’s a pretty good player. Are you backtracking on Trotz, or is he wrong on this one?

 

[justashadowof]

Maybe that photo would be less triggering with a pair of Brooks Brothers black acetate frames photoshopped in.

 

[ER89]

Very, very interesting thought. Handling Marner with the kid gloves because he sees how terrible Paul Marner is.

Feels bad so he plays good cop.

That would be a swell thing to do, but not from the man in the big chair. That’s a matter for the HR department.

See I do think dubas is that nice of a guy. He does care about his players. He stayed back three days for mikheyev in Nj, he gives players opportunities to find success on other teams if it doesn't workout here (barabanov in sj and many more). I like that about him. But what he forgets is he is also accountable to other stakeholders. It's a two way street and he has given everything to matty and mitch but hasn't gotten his fair share from them.

The other thing is, the way he fiercely protects them is a bit weird. I understand players in this market have to be protected and that entices other free agents because that is a worry amongst many FAs. But now it's gotten to the point where the players know they run things and they can do whatever.

Dubas ( I like the guy) if he does a smokescreen and ships mitch out and said all this as a way to maximize trade value, then I know he's truly arrived and is the real deal. Look no further than ujiri who is loyal to his players and it killed him to ship demar... but he did it anyway.

 

[justashadowof]

Edit: And check Komorov’s game logs - he’s on their first line, and always out in the last minute to defend leads. Best coach in the world thinks he’s a pretty good player.

Heck, they tried to develop that kind of game out of Kapanen, and it was progressing, but not even Kapanen escape from the consequences of we can and we will.

 

[Gallagbi]

But they were never going to be able to fit the guys they really wanted to keep once Tavares signed.

That’s why this was so frustrating. This whole situation today was so very predictable.

The current situation is an issue because our stars haven't produced in the playoffs.

I think we're all fine to shuffle the depth players if Matthews and Marner are living up to their contract in playoffs. If theyre top 5 playoff scorers, we're setting up for home ice vs. The Isles with Tavares likely coming back.

Instead we have an embarassing loss where our stars couldn't break through the great Danault and now we question whether they deserve to stay.

 

[Trapper]

It appears Dubas is learning on the job, which is too bad...over-compensated this year with grit...even Chris Johnston on a recent podcast with Steve Dangle, Jesse Blake and Adam Wylde says that next year Dubas would lean back towards skill.

I thought he did that one already?
Didn’t he play that hand?

 

[sparxx87]

The current situation is an issue because our stars haven't developed.

I think we're all fine to shuffle the depth players if Matthews and Marner are living up to their contract in playoffs. If theyre top 5 playoff scorers, we're setting up for home ice vs. The Isles

Revolving door isn’t how a team builds chemistry. In a sport that relies so heavily on being able to read and anticipate the moves around you, this makes it very hard to build cohesion and play connected.

Would be interesting to see the tenures of all the long standing Lightning, Bruins, Islanders etc vs Leafs.

Mass turnover every year almost never works. So many things have to go right, and that’s not a recipe for success.

Depth and balance + elite talent at the top. That’s what wins.

 

[forecheck]

Lou has forgotten more about managing a hockey team then our current GM will ever Know.

Congrats Lou ! A REAL hockey man!

 

[Kurtz]

Don’t worry about being gentle, you can swing as hard as you’d like with wrong and twisted information. You just make yourself looks silly.

As I said, carry on.

Someone already explained the Toews situation and you’ve buried your head in the sand. Let’s see how long you can hold your breath.

Edit: And check Komorov’s game logs - he’s on their first line, and always out in the last minute to defend leads.

Best coach in the world thinks he’s a pretty good player. Are you backtracking on Trotz, or is he wrong on this one?

You continue to display a shocking amount of ignorance and arrogance.

Komarov was a healthy scratch for half of the season. He was on waivers multiple times this year. I like the guy and am glad that he's getting ice time in the playoffs, but he was objectively a massive overpayment. If you cannot even acknowledge that simple little fact then you are simply incapable of critical and objective thought and are wasting everyone's time.

The fact that you can't even critique Lou for dealing Toews for a pair of 2nd and try to defend him by shifting the blame on Snow - the guy who built nearly the entirety of the current Islander roster btw, is pathetic.

 

[forecheck]

I thought he did that one already?
Didn’t he play that hand?

I think he did - I guess when you don't know what you are doing this happens.

 

[justashadowof]

The current situation is an issue because our stars haven't produced in the playoffs.

I think we're all fine to shuffle the depth players if Matthews and Marner are living up to their contract in playoffs. If theyre top 5 playoff scorers, we're setting up for home ice vs. The Isles with Tavares likely coming back.

Instead we have an embarassing loss where our stars couldn't break through the great Danault and now we question whether they deserve to stay.

It's simple to me: our stars are paid like they've already been proven difference makers in the playoffs but they haven't been. This was huge risk taken. And let's not forget that Dubas bought zero UFA years with that Matthews' deal and only 1 with the Marner deal. If those deals were max term deals, I think we all could be a little less impatient waiting for the playoff beast to awaken in those players. There's only 3 more years remaining on that Matthews' deal and we're hearing that it's likely that there aren't going to be major changes this off-season.