We didn’t know what we had

[nuck]

Hand they were dealt

Lou's D
Rielly-Hainsy
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Polak

Dubas' D
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Bogo

I am happy with the direction the team is going, but not the results. I also think hockey is a very unpredictable sport and all you can ask of your GM is to put you in the best position to win, which I think he did for the most part (I still have issues with some things).

This loss was not on the GM, I don't see how anyone thinks it was, but I guess everyone needs someone to blame.

But how is the choice of a coach not on the GM? Look at Marner's ice time in the years when he produced in the playoffs compared to the last two under Keefe. The hiring of defensive specialist Malhotra for the pp. And when you bring in aging vets who agree to play for pennies on the dollar the expectation is you have to play them a certain amount to "come home" in return and that would have come down from KD. There is a price beyond salary to that strategy.

I liked the lineup Dubas assembled this year more than in past years but his big 4 structure means your $11M players are taking the place of two "middle class" salaries so JT getting hurt is like losing two players. Marner slumping is like two players going flat. Big 4 means that will be a problem every year and that's why other clubs aren't building that way. KD has made a bunch of good decisions but his choice of Keefe who has no experience coaching star talent at any level, and his refusal to adjust the top heavy salaries are why they can't move forward.

Now who knows what shenanigans Lou might have gotten into with a couple more years and the infinite MLSE wallet so please don't take this as an "if only we had Lou" post but I can't give Dubas a pass for this years results. He needs to make significant adjustments rather than provide more excuses and hugs and he doesn't want to do that.

 

[Superstar]

The one thing to learn?

No player is bigger than the team. Not even John Tavares.

John Tavares is team player...he gave a huge discount to the Isles on his second contract so that they could be competitive...he was a UFA signing with the Leafs and shaved off $2 million from his AAV compared to the $13 million the Sharks were willing to pay him. Use a different example than John Tavares.

 

[Trapper]

It is, but it is made easier if the GM wants to provide the players that can execute the coach's system rather than his own vision. It also helps if the coach has a system that he wants to execute.

I'm afraid Dubas is 0 for 2 in that regard.

Do you think Dubas was pressured to add pieces like Simmonds, Thornton, Bogo?

None of his draft picks even remotely resemble these players and before that it was the Petans, Malgins, etc.

 

[deprw]

I agree. Exception being if you already have a 20-21 year old elite two way franchise centreman, and three expensive RFA contracts to negotiate... a deep and strong young group (Washington series had 8 rooks) that you want to mostly keep together.

The goal is to give this group 3-4 years while making opportunistic adds along the way.

Re asses along the way while maintaining as much NHL talent, always opportunities to trade from a strong position to strengthen another.

At that point prospect of those RFA contracts were something like 7mil, 8mil and 10mil. Overall cap cost being something like 25millions. Then RFA prices inflated and we paid premium for Marner and Matthews. You can blame Dubas on that and because of Tavares contract he had to sign either Matthews or Marner before summer. If both would have been RFAs we would have been trouble with offer sheets.

You have always good argument about Tavares. Was that good signing or not. I don't have answer at the moment. Without his injury would we be in conference finals. I think so, but in reality we should have won Canadiens even without him and playing these if games is always bit pointless. Injuries are part of this business and sports. It's not an excuse.

Sad thing is that it's add drama here and even more desperation for our organization and fans. I can bet Shanahan and Dubas are discussing on this moment somewhere about what we should do next and how. This steaming frustration around this organization is affecting our future GMs and players, until we win at least something in the playoffs. That's bad.

 

[Trapper]

John Tavares is team player...he gave a huge discount to the Isles on his second contract so that they could be competitive...he was a UFA signing with the Leafs and shaved off $2 million from his AAV compared to the $13 million the Sharks were willing to pay him. Use a different example than John Tavares.

The day we signed Tavares we didn’t need to pay big dollars to wingers. Don’t care how giddy they make people in the regular season.

We had:
Matthews 11.6
Tavares 11
Kadri 4.5

27 mil. Now focus on D + G and fill out with some 4/5 mil players. If Marner or Nylander want a bridge, great.

 

[hotpaws]

I like the direction the team is going, I believe they are being built to compete with the top teams. I'd rather not overpay the likes of Marleau, Zaitsev, Komarov. I have some gripes with how Dubas built the team last year, I think he put too much stock into tough veterans. But overall, he has shown he isn't unwilling to change this team to try to make them better. His drafting has also been great so far (too early to tell for sure, but it is looking good). Very happy with his reshaping of the D core.

the team has been headed the wrong direction since he took over based on results so i have no idea wtf you talking about

Dubas overpaying Tavares and the rfa's affects the cap just the same as overpaying any other player and that's why you see our forward group filled with washed up vets and scraps off the trash heap .

you can pretend everything is sunshine and roses but shaking the blue and white pom poms like a motherf***er isn't going to get us out of our regular division next year and one more poor season and you'll be cheering on a new GM and bitching how Dubie f***ed the team . lol

 

[sparxx87]

John Tavares is team player...he gave a huge discount to the Isles on his second contract so that they could be competitive...he was a UFA signing with the Leafs and shaved off $2 million from his AAV compared to the $13 million the Sharks were willing to pay him. Use a different example than John Tavares.

I never said he isn’t a team player. I like John Tavares, but I have an absolute max of probably $7m - $8m for my 2C slot in a salary cap world relative to the other salaries. I’d be more interested in a cost effective version around $6m.

 

[egd27]

Do you think Dubas was pressured to add pieces like Simmonds, Thornton, Bogo?

None of his draft picks even remotely resemble these players and before that it was the Petans, Malgins, etc.

I think he was pressured on Simmonds (or a similar player), I thought Bogo was a smart signing that filled a need, I think Thornton was one of his vanity exercises (Joe with the Cup would look great on Kyle)

 

[Garthinater]

Lous 2017 offseason was so bad lol. Zaitsev extension, Marleau signing, abysmal draft under Hunter. Things were already going off the rails people just didn't realize it because we had been improving, which was inevitable when you were the worst team in the league and add players like Matthews on ELCs.

God bless the people here who have the patience to push back on the notion that Lou was such a great GM here, I'm enjoying the sun.

"Things were already going off the rails people just didn't realize it because we had been improving..."

Do you even realize how hilarious this sentence is?

Lou inherited a 68 point team.

His first year we "tanked" and got 69.

2nd year we got 100 points and made the playoffs. How many teams make the playoffs first year after coming dead last?

3rd year we set a franchise record in points with 105 and made the playoffs twice in row for the first time since 04.

We never regressed even a little with lou. We improved each year.

Compare that to dubas who inherited a 105 point team.

First year we get 100 points and lose in first round.

2nd year we pace for 95 and lose to a depleted jackets in a 5 game qualifier.

Now his 3rd year we somehow lost to a terrible habs team after we had been gifted a once in a lifetime division realignment.

Lou went to a terrible islanders team and has gone further than us every single year.

The dubas fan boys have been telling us for 2 years now that the islanders are in terrible shape and we are much better team. Yet one is in the semi finals and the other is golfing, again.

It amazes me how you can completely ignore facts and reality to come up with your narrative.

 

[Superstar]

Do you think Dubas was pressured to add pieces like Simmonds, Thornton, Bogo?

None of his draft picks even remotely resemble these players and before that it was the Petans, Malgins, etc.

It appears Dubas is learning on the job, which is too bad...over-compensated this year with grit...even Chris Johnston on a recent podcast with Steve Dangle, Jesse Blake and Adam Wylde says that next year Dubas would lean back towards skill.

 

[sparxx87]

John Tavares is team player...he gave a huge discount to the Isles on his second contract so that they could be competitive...he was a UFA signing with the Leafs and shaved off $2 million from his AAV compared to the $13 million the Sharks were willing to pay him. Use a different example than John Tavares.

I like John Tavares, it’s no slight to him.. but the team player I’m looking for in my #2C slot in a salary cap world makes between $4.5M-6 or 7M.

If he wants to be a team player under those parameters, great. Otherwise, no thank you. Good #2 centres are far more obtainable than Mitch Marner or Auston Matthews, my core forward building blocks

 

[deprw]

I just don’t agree with any of this. I’m not going to change your mind, that’s ok too.

The one thing to learn?

No single player is bigger than the team. Not even John Tavares.

That is key to success in any profession. There is no one man show and there shouldn't be. It's harder to accomplish. I think there is something about that you can learn from Lou in that department, but he has flaws too.

I respect your stance. We both can have our opinions.

 

[ottomaddox]

It appears Dubas is learning on the job, which is too bad...over-compensated this year with grit...even Chris Johnston on a recent podcast with Steve Dangle, Jesse Blake and Adam Wylde says that next year Dubas would lean back towards skill.

Good luck with that. Does he think there will be no salary cap?

 

[Cams]

Basicly it's falling in, since there was UFA Stanley Cup winning coach, when Islanders had no coach. Same way that Babcock landed on our lap, when we were in same situation. +/- 1 year and that option would have been off the table.

If Lou had signed some free agent coach like Ron Wilson and redeemed him, that would have been something to praise on. Trotz was available and something that anyone would have done if possible.

Same as us signing Tavares as UFA.

Until Trotz became available, this job was D J Smith's, as in pen was almost to paper. So yes.....fell into their lap.

 

[sparxx87]

That is key to success in any profession. There is no one man show and there shouldn't be. It's harder to accomplish. I think there is something about that you can learn from Lou in that department, but he has flaws too.

I respect your stance. We both can have our opinions.

Of course.

I guess it’s like a strict parent; they’re very demanding and sometimes harsh, sometimes a little bit crazy... but when it all works out well in the end, you’ve grown to be successful, you can sit back, laugh, and thank them in the end.

 

[Superstar]

I never said he isn’t a team player. I like John Tavares, but I have an absolute max of probably $7m - $8m for my 2C slot in a salary cap world relative to the other salaries. I’d be more interested in a cost effective version around $6m.

Not sure why you single out John Tavares to make your point then. He's not the problem...he's a #1 centre and a UFA signing, one of the biggest available UFAs to come around in decades...it's the overpayment of wingers like Marner (even Willy at the time) that's the problem.

 

[deprw]

i guess this logic doesn't extend signing a num 1 d that would have filled your biggest need

You mean Pietrangelo? It's one option to wait for that opportunity and it might not come. Tavares was there then. You can't count on that either, because that was rare case franchise player leaving in his prime.

It's easy to be captain hindsight in this.

 

[sparxx87]

Not sure why you single out John Tavares to make your point then. He's not the problem...he's a #1 centre and a UFA signing, one of the biggest available UFAs to come around in decades...it's the overpayment of wingers like Marner (even Willy at the time) that's the problem.

He is the signing that re-set the internal cap structure.

Point was, adding that salary cost them important players on their team. That was not a good move if no single player is bigger than the team.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Do you think Dubas was pressured to add pieces like Simmonds, Thornton, Bogo?

None of his draft picks even remotely resemble these players and before that it was the Petans, Malgins, etc.

I think it was his own doing because his core players are weak and soft

 

[ACC1224]

Man, the insecurity of the Dubas fans is staggering.

 

[Garthinater]

Until Trotz became available, this job was D J Smith's, as in pen was almost to paper. So yes.....fell into their lap.

No other team tried to sign this Stanley cup winning coach?

It was only lou that wanted this coach?

Wow lou is even better than I thought!

 

[deprw]

Of course.

I guess it’s like a strict parent; they’re very demanding and sometimes harsh, sometimes a little bit crazy... but when it all works out well in the end, you’ve grown to be successful, you can sit back, laugh, and thank them in the end.

Accomplish that with millionaires that think that they are the best there ever was or will be. Who want manors, girls and fancy cars. Those players have people telling that to them everyday. Even if there is no reason to believe that. Though if those players want to really succeed, they have to be that way. Bit floated ego and huge confidence, but still team players.

 

[Aus34Matt]

It appears Dubas is learning on the job, which is too bad...over-compensated this year with grit...even Chris Johnston on a recent podcast with Steve Dangle, Jesse Blake and Adam Wylde says that next year Dubas would lean back towards skill.

Forget everything. This is what irks me the most.. Dubas becoming the GM should not have happened.

 

[hotpaws]

John Tavares is team player...he gave a huge discount to the Isles on his second contract so that they could be competitive...he was a UFA signing with the Leafs and shaved off $2 million from his AAV compared to the $13 million the Sharks were willing to pay him. Use a different example than John Tavares.

JT didn't give a any discount to the Islanders never mind a huge one , he signed after his second season and took the going rate at that time .

and every time a ufa signs a deal there's a unconfirmed rumor a team was offering more

JT was overpaid at the time of the signing and that contract is not aging well already . If he takes another step back this year the team is f***ed .

 

[Cams]

Dubas is the one who traded Martin so if you don't like the return take it up with dubas.

Lou signed trotz. I wouldn't call that "falling in your lap".

The islanders have already won 2 rounds this year. And several others over the last 2 years. They even beat the Bruins which is something we have been unable to do.

Look we have 3 years of results and the dubas fan boys have been wrong at every turn. They keep drinking the dubas coolaid and buying everything he sells. Its obvious that they, like Kyle, have never played and have no idea what playoff hockey is like.

I think the Martin situation should be taken up with Babcock. He wanted out and back to the island because he wanted to play.

I must be right to assume the all Lou's fans are former players who know exactly what playoff hockey is like? Where did Lou play - he played just as many NHL games as Dubas did. Stupidest argument on here. How was your run in the heat of a playoff run?

Trust me there are Steve Dangle types on here than those who "have played the game", and they are the loudest.