Post-Game Talk: We choked on the fishsticks

[tomobson]

It's all okay, though.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

4 of those games are against arguably the worst team in the league after the tdl.

the issue is quinn’s decision making is baffling. his lines make no sense. his playing howden over goth is dumb af. the fact blackwell gets pp time over laf is blasphemous. and to top it all off, the offense has little structure/system; it’s guys playing off their instincts and hoping for the best.

the rangers could be so much better with nhl caliber decision making behind the bench.

I share your frustration but losing this 1 game isn't going to get him fired. Earlier in the season I was pretty confident he wouldn't be behind the bench next year. Im not so sure right now.

 

[duhmetreE]

But you said we can't beat the more structured teams and again we just took 3 out of 4 against them 2 weeks ago and outplayed them. We just played like ass tonight.

Reread what I wrote

Perimeter finesse hockey only works against average-bad defenses. We consistently play perimeter hockey. We can't consistently beat good defenses/structures. Washington does not fall in that category.

Also for a finesses team our puck movement and support is bad.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Quinn has got to put Kravtsov in the top 6, consistently one of our best players.

 

[EdJovanovski]

The last hope

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Because it's not just the one game. There's a trend of these big games the team laying an egg. Just like in the bubble where they were the worst team there.

Hey, Im with ya as far as saying goodbye to Quinn. I'm just not so sure it's going to happen which is unfortunate.

 

[Rempe73]

Using a lot of early picks on forwards to mold them into 3rd liners who play even strength only seems to be where they are headed.

This is maybe why, for top forwards, we either trade for them or sign them in free agency. This would explain why we can’t develop elite forwards for our lives unless they come in ready or mostly ready (like Buchnevich and Kravtsov). Andersson, Chytil, Kakko, Lafreniere, and the plenty of other forwards we drafted before them (Miller, Kreider, Stepan, etc.) just aren’t at that level.

It really wouldn’t surprise me that they’re treating the players they draft like, “alright they’re good enough to play a little, but not good enough to play a lot. Let’s sign and trade for better players and stall our drafted players’ development.” Precious ice/development time is being wasted in the hopes of “winning now.” This organization has an obsession with always trying to win now and worry about the rest later. I get it, but at the same time, you have to truly commit to the future at some point.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Hey, Im with ya as far as saying goodbye to Quinn. I'm just not so sure it's going to happen which is unfortunate.

I also don't think so and I think this will f*** up Gorton's rebuild. Quinn is the spoiled apple of the rebuild.

 

[duhmetreE]

what happened to our forecheck?

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Reread what I wrote

Perimeter finesse hockey only works against average-bad defenses. We consistently play perimeter hockey. We can't consistently beat good defenses/structures.

Also for a finesses team our puck movement and support is bad.

This team is not consistent about anything really. They lose to the Piles 5-0, then beat them 4-0 next game. They lose to Boston 4-0 and then beat them 4-0 next game. Inconsistency has been the only thing consistent about this team.

 

[CLW]

Time to play the kids......

Laferriere - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Chytil - Kravtsov
Krieder - Strome - Buchnevich
Blackwood - Rooney - Gauthier

Fox Lindgren
Smith Miller
Hajek Jones

It's not only "play the kids". Quinn hid the kids and them play weak unstructured hockey for weeks. And NOW they are supposed to start to play NHL hockey and play up tempo and learn? Put Quinn on leave and have Knoblauch lead the team for the rest of the season.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I want the poll to see who really thinks David Quinn will be fired. I would bet that Gorton keeps him. 70/30 likelihood, anyway.

Should he be fired? Even as not his biggest fan I can’t say 100% yes but if I’m being fair probably 60-40 yes he deserves to be fired.

Will he? I’d say 99.999% no and he is back behind the bench opening night next season. The only way I see him being fired is if some of the kids have really poor exit interviews that worry JD. I think whenever Quinn is fired, whether it’s next year or not, it’s going to have to be a JD move. IMO Gorton won’t fire him. It’s his guy that he identified and went after and lured away from BU.

 

[2014nyr]

it is concerning that when we play a big boy team playing their big boy game, time and again the "top guys" have done absolutely nothing. happened in the bubble. saw versions of it in a lot of the 2nd of back to back games after we'd taken the first. when open ice is scarce and odd man rushes are stripped away they've been completely erased. tonight the few pushes we got were the kid line and 4th line, primarily kravtsov. playoff hopes are dire after that which sucks. but this was a playoff game which is what we need to see. thats the tight, heavy hockey thats played in them which is still a positive. ideally we can stay just alive enough for most of the close here to get treated to as many of these as possible because its the next best thing.

as rough of a look as tonight was broadly speaking, massively so for the "top guys" there were positives. the kids were not intimidated at all...that is a big, big deal. because they're going to get bigger, stronger, and faster. that their games adapt just fine in this style of play is an extremely bright sign - they're going to score highlight reel goals, a lot of them, but they'll get their hands dirty. they have that dog in them thats missing in some of the more senior players. putrid to not have any pushback from mika or strome lines. whats the point of kreider if he's not going to step up and be a physical presence in a game like this. doesn't have to be a fight or run around trying to kill everyone, but not once getting a puck deep and laying a lick on a dman, winning a battle, forcing pucks to the front etc - no long shifts in their end. no physical toll taken on their d while they spend all night watching our shorthanded group get crunched every chance they gave the isles....which is a lot when you never have the puck. the strome line isn't built for even that, but panarin continually pulling up and throwing a cross ice pass with no chance...not once trying to find a way to the net - no shifts making them defend for an extended period...blackwell not creating any loose pucks, strome not doing anything at all. i know panarin specifically is an elite player and you're not gonna have it every night. but they're batting 0% at being effective in big boy hockey games to date. the kids will grow up and take lead roles eventually. my guess is time is running out for the top 6 to show a pulse of production or leadership in games like this

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I really think people need to realize we are still a work in progress. The odds were slim and none of making the playoffs and slim just left town. I think JD/JG know what needs to be done and will continue to build the talent and depth of this roster. Thats why they are always preaching patience. There is no doubt that this team will be a force in the very near future. I do have concerns about the coaching though.

 

[Rempe73]

The difference is Brett Howden was a key component in a trade that saw our Captain sent out to a team he helped win a Cup. Thats the difference. Because there is real no f***ing reason that AHL trash should be getting an NHL minutes.

That McDonagh contract is looking not so terrible now. Don’t think we would have signed Trouba if we kept him, and above everything else, I wouldn’t have as much anger watching Howden “playing the right way” every. Single. Game.

And of course I know we probably wouldn’t have had Laf, Kakko, etc., but A) it’s still worth looking at and comparing our situation to Tampa’s after that trade, and B) we still would have had great prospects even if we didn’t win the lottery twice.

 

[Machinehead]

Like how?

Just, like, don't sign Zibanejad.

 

[Off Sides]

Why would that be exactly? You don't think teams would give up anything of value for a 26yo 60 point potential player who also PK's and plays some defense.

Because he is in Trouba's contract spot when the Rangers traded for him. He, after this season will have one RFA year left. Any team trading for him would either have to extend him to pretty much whatever the top of the market would give, or lose him to UFA if they can not get him extended.

 

[Rempe73]

it is concerning that when we play a big boy team playing their big boy game, time and again the "top guys" have done absolutely nothing. happened in the bubble. saw versions of it in a lot of the 2nd of back to back games after we'd taken the first. when open ice is scarce and odd man rushes are stripped away they've been completely erased. tonight the few pushes we got were the kid line and 4th line, primarily kravtsov. playoff hopes are dire after that which sucks. but this was a playoff game which is what we need to see. thats the tight, heavy hockey thats played in them which is still a positive. ideally we can stay just alive enough for most of the close here to get treated to as many of these as possible because its the next best thing.

as rough of a look as tonight was broadly speaking, massively so for the "top guys" there were positives. the kids were not intimidated at all...that is a big, big deal. because they're going to get bigger, stronger, and faster. that their games adapt just fine in this style of play is an extremely bright sign - they're going to score highlight reel goals, a lot of them, but they'll get their hands dirty. they have that dog in them thats missing in some of the more senior players. putrid to not have any pushback from mika or strome lines. whats the point of kreider if he's not going to step up and be a physical presence in a game like this. doesn't have to be a fight or run around trying to kill everyone, but not once getting a puck deep and laying a lick on a dman, winning a battle, forcing pucks to the front etc - no long shifts in their end. no physical toll taken on their d while they spend all night watching our shorthanded group get crunched every chance they gave the isles....which is a lot when you never have the puck. the strome line isn't built for even that, but panarin continually pulling up and throwing a cross ice pass with no chance...not once trying to find a way to the net - no shifts making them defend for an extended period...blackwell not creating any loose pucks, strome not doing anything at all. i know panarin specifically is an elite player and you're not gonna have it every night. but they're batting 0% at being effective in big boy hockey games to date. the kids will grow up and take lead roles eventually. my guess is time is running out for the top 6 to show a pulse of production or leadership in games like this

Very good point. Kravtsov, Lafreniere, Kakko, and even Chytil and Buchnevich, have that fight in them. Our soft vets don’t. I’d rather it be that than the other way around, but it’s still bad. That’s why maybe the Rangers strategy of focusing on drafting players that also step up come playoff time is a good idea.

 

[Off Sides]

Just, like, don't sign Zibanejad.

Okay, yet the Rangers are going to sell him for futures?

These players are basically rentals, Buch, Zbad, Strome.

Rangers are going to lessen their chances at making the playoffs next year in order to make some spots for the youth?

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Okay, yet the Rangers are going to sell him for futures?

These players are basically rentals, Buch, Zbad, Strome.

Rangers are going to lessen their chances at making the playoffs next year in order to make some spots for the youth?

Mika has a NMC. If the Rangers struggle again next year, Mika may waive as a rental.

The real fun starts in 2022-2023 imo.

 

[Off Sides]

This is maybe why, for top forwards, we either trade for them or sign them in free agency. This would explain why we can’t develop elite forwards for our lives unless they come in ready or mostly ready (like Buchnevich and Kravtsov). Andersson, Chytil, Kakko, Lafreniere, and the plenty of other forwards we drafted before them (Miller, Kreider, Stepan, etc.) just aren’t at that level.

It really wouldn’t surprise me that they’re treating the players they draft like, “alright they’re good enough to play a little, but not good enough to play a lot. Let’s sign and trade for better players and stall our drafted players’ development.” Precious ice/development time is being wasted in the hopes of “winning now.” This organization has an obsession with always trying to win now and worry about the rest later. I get it, but at the same time, you have to truly commit to the future at some point.

Right, they always try, and will try to make the playoffs.

So where does that leave them in terms of team building?

They are not going to trade for stuff that does not help that goal immediately, yet if all they can get is futures...

They are going to keep all these vets unless they can somehow replace them with other vets who they believe will give them an equal or better chance at making the playoffs. It becomes sort of a shell game of continual retooling.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

As far as leadership goes, our entire team lives and dies by the streaks of our top scorers. We're blessed with Panarin who has yet to have a cold streak since he became a Ranger, but otherwise, it's a really difficult needle to thread: come together and buy into the team while also leave everything to these four guys and pray they win it for us.

Don't most teams rely on their top scorers? We have Panarin, Zibs, Strome, Fox, and Buch near or over a PPG. Thats 5 guys, not 1 or 2. Where would Isles be without Barzal, where would Boston be without their top line? Most teams rely heavily on just a few guys.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Because he is in Trouba's contract spot when the Rangers traded for him. He, after this season will have one RFA year left. Any team trading for him would either have to extend him to pretty much whatever the top of the market would give, or lose him to UFA if they can not get him extended.

There will be teams interested and he will return value if the Rangers choose to go that route.

 

[Rempe73]

Right, they always try, and will try to make the playoffs.

So where does that leave them in terms of team building?

They are not going to trade for stuff that does not help that goal immediately, yet if all they can get is futures...

They are going to keep all these vets unless they can somehow replace them with other vets who they believe will give them an equal or better chance at making the playoffs. It becomes sort of a shell game of continual retooling.

Very well put. It’s like that’s their idea of a rebuild. Just recycle old vets for newer, better, shinier ones, while also trying to pick up a ton of draft picks (and not use those draft picks in a truly meaningful role unless they luck their way into somehow developing a forward).

A rebuild is not just about acquiring a ton of prospects. It’s about giving them time and resources to develop, and not blocking them. It’s like buying a stock at its peak value and waiting until the value drops dramatically before selling it (I don’t know much about stocks, so I’m not completely sure if I made the right analogy).

Edit: Just want to clarify that competition is good, but still. It’s not like the kids are much worse than Kreider or Zibanejad right now. Gorton/Quinn don’t want to risk it though. “Can’t afford missing the playoffs.” It’s just going to piss me off a lot more if they don’t play the kids more after tonight.

 

[Machinehead]

Okay, yet the Rangers are going to sell him for futures?

These players are basically rentals, Buch, Zbad, Strome.

Rangers are going to lessen their chances at making the playoffs next year in order to make some spots for the youth?

They absolutely should.