Post-Game Talk: WCSF | Golden Knights def. Canucks - 5-3 - Lead Series 3-1

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

still confusing the games.
LOL

"Out coached"..the favourite term used by armchair GM's who think they're pretty smart....Carry on..

 

[orcatown]

Don't know that I have said this before but that, to me, was a coach's loss. For some reasons, he insists playing Gaudette at center when Sutter is available. With Gaudette at center the team was tied up in their zone zone just about every shift he was out. You could see Gaudette was totally lost and and running around. Often just fell back to the front of the net and left his check free to roam around the zone at will. Other times he joined the melee along the boards when the wing and the defenseman were all ready battling for the puck rather than waiting for the puck to come out where he could either get possession or quickly get on the man who the puck came out to. Shift after shift he was tied up in his zone and all the momentum swung to Vegas. Finally on a critical shift at the beginning of the third he is out again and again helpless to get on his check or get the puck out. And after controlling the puck for about two minutes the Knights score and are on their way to a win.

We have seen this all season. Gaudette cannot play in his end. I know the Canucks want to make him the third line center but he has shown consistently he cannot get the job done defensively and, most of the time, not offensively either. This game was not the time and place to continue that experiment. I know that some have put a lot of stock in Gaudette and want him badly to succeed. But I think any honest assessment (just given how much the team ends up running around in their end when he is out) says Gaudette is no where near NHL level in terms of his defensive play or his ability to move the puck.

And the real problem here is that Green has in Sutter someone who can play the third line center role. Sutter is not going to set the world on fire but he can be adequate. Indeed earlier in the playoffs he was dong well at that position. In this critical game, Green had to go with Sutter. As it was, Sutter ended up playing wing on the 4th line and was, as he has been, ineffective there. So not only does Green cripple the 3rd line by playing Gaudette at center but makes Sutter useless by putting him in a position where he has done so little

To me, the obvious way to go was sit Gaudette, play Sutter on the 3rd line and then use Eriksson as wing on 3rd or 4th line. I don't like Eriksson but in this situation he has enough veteran presence and smarts to give you a far greater chance to survive than putting Gaudette in the line up.

Also thought that after the whiff on the 3rd goal, Markstrom might have been pulled. He looked done and his play the rest of the period confirmed that.

Too bad because the team gave it a valiant effort and got some very good games out of a lot of the players


Good

Pettersson - totally the best player for the Canucks. PP spent too much time going to people other than Pettersson. Seemed like nothing was going to happen until Pettersson got it. And don't see why Green and Brown don't move Pettersson around on the PP (switching sides and such or letting him play from behind the net) to free him up to do more

Tanev - best game in the this series. Much better puck movement and much better job of staying out of trouble

Edler - thought he was much stronger around his net.

Myers - good job on Tuch. Worked effectively with Stecher

Boeser - still lacked much touch around the net but much stronger along the boards and better in getting to the net with some speed.

Toffoli - another good all round game. Knows how to put the puck away

Motte - like he was playing all three forward positions for the 4th line. Fourth line would have been buried if not for Motte - Good on the PK per usual

Pearson - another solid game. Hope he can start scoring but he is playing sound hockey in every zone.

Bad

Markstrom - didn't have it by the third. Side to side movement got shakier and started getting deep in the net. Just too much hockey.

Gaudette - in totally over his head. Vegas played it around him with ease. Boy with men unfortunately

Beagle - Can't skate well enough to stay with Vegas. Looks very old. Awful contract moving ahead.

Miller - handling the puck on the PP was terrible. Really hurt the team tonight.

Others

Hughes - nice to see him get some points but he is still trying to do too much and creating too many chances for Vegas. You would hope Green has told him not to take the puck deep into the Vegas end 5 on 5 . Point shot needs lot of work

Virtanen - playing better. Wish he could put away some of his chances but much more involved and did create some turnovers.

Roussel - effective here and there - but all kind of random.

IMO Green is getting out coached in this series. Series likely wraps up next game but hopefully they go with guns blazing.

 

[Fire Benning]

Lmao someone just called into the 1040 post game show and was snoring

 

[PG Canuck]

Tuch in particular is one of the noticeable ones along with Theodore.

Vegas has actually had a handful of sleeping players. Marchessault has been noticeable for different reasons. Is Stastny even playing? Karlsson has been quiet.

 

[PG Canuck]

Lmao someone just called into the 1040 post game show and was snoring

I am dying laughing. You could just hear the snoring.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Delete

 

[JiffyPB]

Benning would really suck at negotiating if he gives Jake 3+ million. He should be getting something like a 1 year 2 million deal, prove that you can hit 20 goals again and continue to improve your game before deserving more. Virtanen doesn’t deserve a 3 million deal at this point, but he also doesn’t deserve all the backlash he gets, just like how Horvat didn’t deserve years!!! Of backlash from Nuck fans. We definitely need more players like Torres and Hansen! That’s exactly what our bottom 6 is missing

You would be surprised. Did anyone imagine the Sbisa contract and Jake's his boy. Fabbri got 2.95 x 2 after looking like he'd wash out of the NHL in St. Louis. 20 goal scoring guys, even if it's a freak year, get paid.

The point I was trying to make is yes, I would love it if Virtanen would play like those guys I listed, but he doesn't. That's why he's a guy I'd look at not having a long term future here. Wouldn't want to move him considering the prospect and scoring winger depth, but cap space realities mean he's likely to be moved.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I am dying laughing. You could just hear the snoring.

Pretty positive I remember that happening back in the day on Dan Russells show.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Vegas has actually had a handful of sleeping players. Marchessault has been noticeable for different reasons. Is Stastny even playing? Karlsson has been quiet.

Indeed, but they are still producing when it matters.

 

[BB06]

This Series will give Hughes a lot of tape on some of his deficiencies. Will learn a lot of what teams might try and do to limit him. Hope he takes as much away from it as he can. Don't think any team has neutralized him this much 5on5.

 

[PG Canuck]

Indeed, but they are still producing when it matters.

Yeah more so just pointing out that Vegas has a good portion that have been quiet and are still having no issue with the Canucks. That team is so deep.

 

[CherryToke]

"Out coached"..the favourite term used by armchair GM's who think they're pretty smart....Carry on..

How many too many men penalties did Vegas get?

 

[BB06]

I know +/- is a flawed stat but Stecher leads the team with +8. That's almost double the next closet Canucks Edler +4.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

I know +/- is a flawed stat but Stecher leads the team with +8. That's almost double the next closet Canucks Edler +4.

He’s so consistent, has good awareness and a great stick, underrated.

 

[AzNightmare]

Did you expect him to say he was tired?

Such a weird coincidence that the reporters asked him that specific question...

Nah, just didn't expect the awkward 10 second silence after he answered. It made me chuckle.

 

[TeddyBare]

"Out coached"..the favourite term used by armchair GM's who think they're pretty smart....Carry on..

Armchair GM's is pretty much this entire site unless you didn't notice

 

[Phil Brooks]

Our guys were beat and battered from the St. Louis series, and to be going into the 3rd period of Game 4 with a chance to tie the series at 2-2 was already way exceeding expectations. Extremely proud of this group.

We're not going beat VGK, Marky is gassed and there's no way Demko gets throw into an elimination game. Even if we miraculously win game 5 and game 6, 5 games in 7 will be way too much for Markstrom. VGK is just way too deep of a team.

Really promising to see how much Petey can elevate his game in the playoffs and his compete level has been unreal. I don't think I've seen a player in this franchise ever with his level of compete. This is leadership by example.

 

[bossram]

Pettersson - totally the best player for the Canucks. PP spent too much time going to people other than Pettersson. Seemed like nothing was going to happen until Pettersson got it. And don't see why Green and Brown don't move Pettersson around on the PP (switching sides and such or letting him play from behind the net) to free him up to do more

IMO Green is getting out coached in this series. Series likely wraps up next game but hopefully they go with guns blazing.

I don't really get the "out-coached" thing. I don't honestly think Green is an amazing coach, but it's not like Deboer is doing anything special. He's just rolling the lines. Green's team is simply outmatched (which we all knew going in), and that's not on him. He didn't build the roster.

Once again, the bottom-six was absolutely filled in. Our top-guys did end up slightly on the negative xG%, but not a single bottom-sixer even cleared 30%. I was hoping for the return of Myers, but he and Fantenberg were absolutely dreadful (sub-20% xG%) and Myers' defending on some of the goals against was wtf-worthy.

Sure, Green could've put Sutter at centre and Loui on the wing, but would that do much? Every time our 3rd and 4th lines and 3rd pair are on the ice, it's a guaranteed "desperation" shift in our end. And our depth guys can't create anything offensively. Deboer is laughing because his bottom-six just runs over ours.

I do agree with getting different looks on the PP (despite scoring two PP goals). The Petey one-time set-up is really pointless, given teams are prepared for it. Petey has a great wrister and is a great playmaker, so I'd rather get him on his stronger "downhill" side. He can go cross-ice, back to Hughes, or down low from there.

 

[bossram]

He’s so consistent, has good awareness and a great stick, underrated.

I've said it numerous times, but moving on from Stecher would be a massive mistake.

 

[Indiana]

I like what Bertuzzi said on a radio show a few weeks back. He doesnt see Jake wanting the puck on his stick. And that is him to a T.

It is what it is.

DeBoer had the advantage going in because he had the better team. Green played into that advantage by making conservative choices.
His strategy was actually the strategy of the coach with the better team, not of the coach that recognizes his team is weaker and has to take chances to succeed.

What an excellent post.

Yeah, no.

NGL I LOLed

 

[Phil Brooks]

He’s so consistent, has good awareness and a great stick, underrated.

Plus, he's a RD. If we lose Tanev and don't re-sign Stecher, it's going to look ugly on the right side.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Plus, he's a RD. If we lose Tanev and don't re-sign Stecher, it's going to look ugly on the right side.

Its not ugly. Its non-existent.

Meyers would be our top guy. And hes lazy as shit.

 

[Peen]

Well. That was a frustrating game.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

This isn't a great look for us.

Our worst right side defenseman is the one signed to the long term contract.

Stecher has shown well outside of one noticeably bad game.

I don't really know what we should do.

 

[Grumbler]

Markstrom has looked shaky last two games, but yesterday’s game was entirely on virtanen. So many grade A+ chances wasted and one of them ended up in the back of our net to give Vegas huge momentum. Sorry we are not coming back against that team in the third with the lead, because they are not us.

I really don’t see a bright future with this team considering how many salary Cap eaters we have. Too many bad contracts and they will take a few years to clear. Also considering the pandemic, there might not even be hockey next year. The time to win it is now. I’d say it be hard to get another chance like this.

 

[mossey3535]

Not to say I told you

Well I hardly find myself disagreeing with Woodley except for his irrational love for Lack (this is as someone who was a Lack fan, even) but I disagree with most of this statement. Maybe he was constrained by twitter word count.

Was Marky tired in this one? Yes.

Are these statements true? Just for funsies I'll break it down the way I saw it.

Goal 1: Stone's pass looks like it's going to Marchessault in the slot. So Marky puts his pad down in anticipation of a high danger slot shot. The pass keeps going, he actually recovers quite nicely and doesn't actually commit, and is still able to get on his angle and square. There is an extra slide (it's pad down, get up, slide, get up) but he's already got momentum going that way - it would be awkward to put a t-push in here (you'll see what I mean in a minute). I don't think this is an early slide.

The issue here is that once again, a Canucks guy screens him instead of actually blocking the shot. And when you're fresh you are quicker to make last second reads.

Goal 2: You really can't over-slide on a t-push unless you take an egregious amount of depth for the situation, so I disagree with Woodley on this one. But of course I am going to use wayyy more than 280 characters to describe all this. Now, it's a janky t-push - weak, not square and very upright. The jerkiness of his legs is what shows the fatigue here - he doesn't have the crisp edgework we've seen from him all season. Because of that he doesn't really finish the t-push so he's locked and can't t-push back which is what he normally does. His push is slow and off-angle...and he runs into the Vegas guy.

P2-15:26 Actually this is where you see fatigue - usually Marky on the recovery save will still be in a lower stance. When you're tired it's easier to make the whole movement - get all the way up, go all the way down. His second save is very straight-legged - that's a sure sign of being tired.

Goal 3: I'm of two minds on this one. You ideally need two reads - one off the stick and then another one somewhere along the flight of the puck. With a blueline shot you should get a good look off the stick and it's quite far away so lots of the time you can make a save from a point shot even when you can't see the puck again after it comes off the stick blade. But on the other hand, Motte again provides a visual distraction. I don't think it's a bad goal, period. I just see too many goals that happen like this. Again, if Marky is fresh maybe he trusts his first read more and saves this.

Goal 4: Vegas guy comes in on the RW, Marky's position and depth is good. Pass goes actoss, he t-pushes to the top here when the potential shooter is in the high slot and there's a rebound option to his right....not sure how he could have played this differently, and in no way is this "over-active". Where the fatigue comes in is that although EP screens the shooter, making it hard to see the pass (or any shot he might have taken), Marky is slow to track the pass. You see his head just doesn't turn as quickly as it normally does. And because he's tired he instinctively goes into a butterfly. That locks him (he actually has to lean AWAY from the play to plant his skate to push towards the far post) and he can't recover and slide over to cover the far side. Still, it's kind of a fluke goal. Tanev has Patches and it basically just caroms in.

Goal 5: Marky pretty patient on this one initially and makes a good save on the guy in front. It goes up and over...a less tired Marky probably tracks this one a bit better and maybe recovers to his feet...but he still knows it goes over his blocker side so he turns his head that way. Have to give Patches credit for batting it down in the opposite direction, normally the play would develop slower if the puck had landed at his feet and he had to skate with it behind the net. But his d-men should also be shouting where the puck is....of course we can't know they are or aren't - yet still Marky makes the right read and turns his head back to his left and begins to recover. He also reacts properly to cover the left post. Unfortunately at this time Myers had had two chances to make the right defensive play in this sequence and completely botches it twice - the last one being the worse because if he just had engaged Karlsson's stick Marky still has a shot at saving this.

So, Goal 1 self-screen. Goal 2 definitely fatigue. Goal 3 let's say that's on Marky. Goal 4 and 5 IMO are 50/50. If the puck bounced differently off Patches maybe this totally misses the net. And if Myers takes his man Goal 5 doesn't happen. On the other hand, Marky probably makes a miracle save on one of the last two if he's processing things as quickly as usual.

TL;DR - I'd only blame one goal entirely on him being tired on a back-to-back, the rest is highly debatable. That means Vegas still wins 4-3.

PS If you want to see over-active, Fleury is moving way too aggressively to the center on Bo's 2-2 goal. Yes, it's deflected but the angle on the point shot is not too different from the deflection angle. If Fleury had gone straight down, he probably still recovers in time to stop Bo's second deflection (he reacts in time even with all this but is sliding away from the net).