Washington REALLY helped by Kempny trade

[b1e9a8r5s]

The outcome of the Parise signing is independent of Tavares. And its convenient to exclude Suter. Fair to disagree and I agree that there are risks, but that’s always the case. There is risk in sitting on the cap or using it on 2-3 depth pieces that aggregate to the cap hit of one great player.

I compared Parise cause he's a forward with fairly similar numbers to that point in their careers, but I think the Wild are a good team to bring up with this discussion, because if the Hawks were to sign the Taveres I think their ceiling is about that of the Wild. A playoff team who might get out of the 1st round here and there but really isn't a threat to win the cup.

If I thought Tavares would make the Hawks a legit contender in the next 2-3 years, then I'd do it and deal with the rest later as you suggest. I just think they are further away than that, so the short term upside isn't worth the long term risk to me.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Then don't give him 10 years. I said I'd be fine with 8 or 9m over 5 years. If he wants 10, sorry, see ya later. We're not signing you until you're some decrepit, pushing 40, shell of your former self. Toews and Seabs on this team is more than enough when it comes to that.

I love you guys who just think "Hey, let's throw huge money and term to guys who are at their peak, so in 2 or 3 years when he performs at half that level, we can ***** and moan all day about how terrible of a contract it is."

That's just stupid business. Terrible team management.

And yeah, I guess no 24-25 year old talented player has ever been a free agent in the NHL, huh? Or any other professional sport for that matter.

Feel free to give me a list of 24-25 year old top 3-5 centers that hit free agency...And how does your argument not apply to signing Carlsson or De Haan...I’d argue there is more risk in signing one of them.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Feel free to give me a list of 24-25 year old top 3-5 centers that hit free agency...And how does your argument not apply to signing Carlsson or De Haan...I’d argue there is more risk in signing one of them.

I don't want either of them signed to an 8-10 year contract either...

I've been saying the entire offseason, I have no desire for this team to strap themselves to another 8-10 year contract. They should have already learned their lesson about handing out 10 year contracts like they're candy.

And... not only that, but Tavares may not even become a free agent. This is all hypothetical, and it's hypothetical terrible team management.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I don't want either of them signed to an 8-10 year contract either...

I've been saying the entire offseason, I have no desire for this team to strap themselves to another 10 year contract. They should have already learned their lesson about handing out 10 year contracts like they're candy.

Good thing the max term Tavares can get if he leaves New York is 7 years.

And how do you define strapped? Because Carlsson and De Haan will likely have an AAV that is 60-80% of Tavares

 

[ChiHawks10]

Good thing the max term Tavares can get if he leaves New York is 7 years.

Forgot that he's limited to only 7 years unless he's with the NYI. My point still stands. I have no desire to anchor this team with another high AAV, long-term contract right now. There are more than enough of them on the team already. It's bad business.

Funny, though. Your logic is made to look ridiculous, you can't answer any questions I've asked you, so you attack a meaningless number when it should be pretty damn obvious that my point is that having another long-term contract on this team is a very, very bad idea.

And I'm much more comfortable giving a D, an actual need, a 6 or 7m deal right now, as opposed to a forward.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Forgot that he's limited to only 7 years unless he's with the NYI. My point still stands. I have no desire to anchor this team with another high AAV, long-term contract right now. There are more than enough of them on the team already. It's bad business.

Funny, though. Your logic is made to look ridiculous, you can't answer any questions I've asked you, so you attack a meaningless number when it should be pretty damn obvious that my point is that having another long-term contract on this team is a very, very bad idea.

And I'm much more comfortable giving a D, an actual need, a 6 or 7m deal right now, as opposed to a forward.

What question........the D you’re talking about signing will have a similar term.

Not sure how correcting your 10 year number is meaningless when the basis of your argument to any big free agent signing is how many years its for

 

[pvr]

This thread is a massive digression away from Kempny, and essentially is a free agent thread at this point.

 

[ChiHawks10]

What question........the D you’re talking about signing will have a similar term.

Not sure how correcting your 10 year number is meaningless when the basis of your argument to any big free agent signing is how many years its for

The basis to my argument is a long-term contract. In general.

I have no desire to have the Hawks get into that ring again. If one of the big FA D doesn't want to sign a contract for 5 years or less, oh well on them too. Move on with what we have. Save the cap space for when the team is more ready to contend again.

And what questions? Over two days I've asked you numerous questions. You ignore every one.

Is it good business for the Hawks to sign Tavares to a max contract right now - is it a good idea for the Hawks to sign a guy to a 10m+ contract for 7 years right now? When there are already numerous contracts like that on the books, and the Hawks are just now crawling out from under a decade of cap hell? Is it a good idea to sign him when you have legitimate, talented players like Cat and Schmaltz needing new contracts in the next season or two, and the core needs to be rebuilt for the future? Is it a good idea to sign a 28 year old player to a 7 year 10m+ deal? Do you think it's good business/team management to just go out and sign Tavares, despite the fact that this team has numerous holes, and he patches exactly zero of them? Do you think Tavares makes this team a Cup contender this season?

You've continually refused to answer any questions like this that I've asked over two days now. I wonder why? If the answer to any of the questions above is no. And it should be no to all of them, then Tavares shouldn't be signed.

And this is my last post on the topic. We're way off of Kempny, the original topic of the thread, and I'm done arguing about it. I don't agree we should sign Tavares. I think it's a terrible idea. He does not fill a serious need/hole on this team. He does not single-handedly make this team a contender, so no thanks to another long term, high AAV contract.

 

[BobbyJet]

Folks who think bringing in another $10 M forward is going to magically fix things are mistaken.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

The basis to my argument is a long-term contract. In general.

I have no desire to have the Hawks get into that ring again. If one of the big FA D doesn't want to sign a contract for 5 years or less, oh well on them too. Move on with what we have. Save the cap space for when the team is more ready to contend again.

And what questions? Over two days I've asked you numerous questions. You ignore every one.

Is it good business for the Hawks to sign Tavares to a max contract right now - is it a good idea for the Hawks to sign a guy to a 10m+ contract for 7 years right now? When there are already numerous contracts like that on the books, and the Hawks are just now crawling out from under a decade of cap hell? Is it a good idea to sign him when you have legitimate, talented players like Cat and Schmaltz needing new contracts in the next season or two, and the core needs to be rebuilt for the future? Is it a good idea to sign a 28 year old player to a 7 year 10m+ deal? Do you think it's good business/team management to just go out and sign Tavares, despite the fact that this team has numerous holes, and he patches exactly zero of them? Do you think Tavares makes this team a Cup contender this season?

You've continually refused to answer any questions like this that I've asked over two days now. I wonder why? If the answer to any of the questions above is no. And it should be no to all of them, then Tavares shouldn't be signed.

And this is my last post on the topic. We're way off of Kempny, the original topic of the thread, and I'm done arguing about it. I don't agree we should sign Tavares. I think it's a terrible idea. He does not fill a serious need/hole on this team. He does not single-handedly make this team a contender, so no thanks to another long term, high AAV contract.

If I haven’t answered whether or not I think its a good decision to sign Tavares in any of the previous 8 thread pages then I don’t know what to say

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Folks who think bringing in another $10 M forward is going to magically fix things are mistaken.

People have a lot of opinions when it comes to signing Tavares but never seem to have an opinion on where else the team can leverage their cap space to acquire assets that will improve the team.

Sitting on a bunch of cap space isn’t going to magically do it either.

 

[ChiHawks10]

People have a lot of opinions when it comes to signing Tavares but never seem to have an opinion on where else the team can leverage their cap space to acquire assets that will improve the team.

Sitting on a bunch of cap space isn’t going to magically do it either.

Maybe they shouldn't use the cap space right now. It's not good business to just wildly throw all your cap space at players just because they're available... that's not how you manage a professional sports organization. Let the young players develop. They're not going to be a contender this upcoming season, no matter who you sign. So why not sit on it and wait until they're closer to being one?

If I haven’t answered whether or not I think its a good decision to sign Tavares in any of the previous 8 thread pages then I don’t know what to say

You conveniently ignore the rest, other than the "opinion" that you think it's a good idea, despite not being able to answer if he makes the team a contender, or fills all the holes, or if it's a good business/team management.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Folks who think bringing in another $10 M forward is going to magically fix things are mistaken.

It makes more sense to go with a youth movement and then put the cherry on top like we did with Hossa. Understandably, people would prefer to make the whole sundae from scratch this summer and get back to competing ASAP.

 

[ChiHawks10]

It makes more sense to go with a youth movement and then put the cherry on top like we did with Hossa. Understandably, people would prefer to make the whole sundae from scratch this summer and get back to competing ASAP.

This is the point I'm trying to make. Tavares does not fix all the holes to make this team a contender. So why waste the money on him right now? Wait until you're closer, then try to make a splash for a big FA, like they did with Hossa.

But nah.... let's just throw the cap money out there and spend it all just because it's there, so the team can be a middling PO team for the next 7 years of another cap hell that would come with a big FA like Tavares.

I'll take a couple years of a mediocre team, and then 5-6 more years of a contending team, over being a middling PO team for the next 7 years because there are still holes to fill, but no money to do it with after going after Tavares.

 

[ColdSteel2]

This is the point I'm trying to make. Tavares does not fix all the holes to make this team a contender. So why waste the money on him right now? Wait until you're closer, then try to make a splash for a big FA, like they did with Hossa.

But nah.... let's just throw the cap money out there and spend it all just because it's there.

My concern is that it will take a few years for these first rounders to break in and by that time Tavares will be in decline and we’ll have a hard time resigning the young guys. From the pro Tavares POV, players like that don’t hit free agency too often so you don’t want to pass that opportunity up either.

It’s a tough spot. Tavares comes to us hat in hand saying he will sign for 9 or 10M for a chance to play with Kane and Toews, who here is going to turn him away and say we are not ready for it even if it is the logical thing to do?

Chances are he has no interest in us due to where we are at so it shouldn’t be an issue anyway.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Maybe they shouldn't use the cap space right now. It's not good business to just wildly throw all your cap space at players just because they're available... that's not how you manage a professional sports organization. Let the young players develop. They're not going to be a contender this upcoming season, no matter who you sign. So why not sit on it and wait until they're closer to being one?



You conveniently ignore the rest, other than the "opinion" that you think it's a good idea, despite not being able to answer if he makes the team a contender, or fills all the holes, or if it's a good business/team management.

I addressed the math on DeBrincat/Schmaltz. You choose not to accept it as reasonable. I do. Thats where we differ. I see an 84-85m cap by the time they’re up and Anisimov, Hossa and potentially Seabrook off the books.

 

[ChiHawks10]

My concern is that it will take a few years for these first rounders to break in and by that time Tavares will be in decline and we’ll have a hard time resigning the young guys. From the pro Tavares POV, players like that don’t hit free agency too often so you don’t want to pass that opportunity up either.

It’s a tough spot. Tavares comes to us hat in hand saying he will sign for 9 or 10M for a chance to play with Kane and Toews, who here is going to turn him away and say we are not ready for it even if it is the logical thing to do?

Chances are he has no interest in us due to where we are at so it shouldn’t be an issue anyway.

Me obviously. And quite a few others in this discussion.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I addressed the math on DeBrincat/Schmaltz. You choose not to accept it as reasonable. I do. Thats where we differ. I see an 84-85m cap by the time they’re up and Anisimov, Hossa and potentially Seabrook off the books.

Does he make the team a contender? Does he fill all the holes this team has right now? Is it good business management to throw a huge amount of cap space at a player when they're not ready to contend? Again, refusing to answer the questions. If you can't answer any of these, then I'm not bothering with the debate anymore.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Me obviously. And quite a few others in this discussion.

Probably smart on you guys to do so. I don’t have it in me to turn him away, even if it makes sense.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Probably smart on you guys to do so. I don’t have it in me to turn him away, even if it makes sense.

Odds are very high that the Hawks aren't even remotely close to being in the running, anyways. They're not going to be able to match what others teams are going to be willing to give. And odds are high he probably signs with Islanders over any other team, also. So I'm not sure why I keep debating it in here.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Does he make the team a contender? Does he fill all the holes this team has right now? Is it good business management to throw a huge amount of cap space at a player when they're not ready to contend? Again, refusing to answer the questions. If you can't answer any of these, then I'm not bothering with the debate anymore.

Yes, yes and yes.

 

[pvr]

This is the point I'm trying to make. Tavares does not fix all the holes to make this team a contender. So why waste the money on him right now? Wait until you're closer, then try to make a splash for a big FA, like they did with Hossa.

But nah.... let's just throw the cap money out there and spend it all just because it's there, so the team can be a middling PO team for the next 7 years of another cap hell that would come with a big FA like Tavares.

I'll take a couple years of a mediocre team, and then 5-6 more years of a contending team, over being a middling PO team for the next 7 years because there are still holes to fill, but no money to do it with after going after Tavares.

Agree. The way the team looks, especially if Crawford isn't ready to play the majority of 2018-19, the Hawks will be best served by playing the youth, suffering some growing pains, and drafting higher for another year or two (#1 and #2 next year likely both will be special players). Then, grab the second coming of Hossa as a FA to fill the hole(s) as needed.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

My concern is that it will take a few years for these first rounders to break in and by that time Tavares will be in decline and we’ll have a hard time resigning the young guys. From the pro Tavares POV, players like that don’t hit free agency too often so you don’t want to pass that opportunity up either.

It’s a tough spot. Tavares comes to us hat in hand saying he will sign for 9 or 10M for a chance to play with Kane and Toews, who here is going to turn him away and say we are not ready for it even if it is the logical thing to do?

Chances are he has no interest in us due to where we are at so it shouldn’t be an issue anyway.

Valid points. If they’re done trying to win with the core go for a total rebuild and hopefully draft some franchise players.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Yes, yes and yes.

Conversation over now. If you think Tavares is the difference in this team winning a Cup or not next season, then there's no point in even debating with you, either. That's ridiculous, if I'm being nice about it. Talk about a homer take.

I think this team has good talent, and I'm always very optimistic about them, but there are at least 4-5 holes on this team, and Tavares doesn't patch all of them.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

If the Hawks were to go with the youth movement then they need to trade Saad, Murphy, Rutta, Anisimov, load up on picks and go for Jack Hughes.

That’s obviously not gonna happen. Bowman might not even have a job in two years. He’s not sitting on all that cap space unless Rocky and McD give him the green light to extend the re-tool window.

I’d prefer to go that route but I don’t see it going that route. They’ll spend the money. And that all leads back to my preference for JT over Carlsson, JvR, De Haan et.