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Confirmed with Link: Jake Walman to Edmonton for F Carl Berglund and Conditional 1st

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Hodge said:
No, what you're arguing is that the entire league mis-valued Walman in the offseason but the genius Oilers management team who fumbled Broberg and Holloway because they spent all their money on washed up garbage like Jeff Skinner, Arvidsson and Henrique is accurately valuing him right now.

Great, the Sharks are better when Walman is on the ice with the top six compared to when Thrun or Vlasic is on the ice with Goodrow and Kunin. That definitely makes him worth a 1st+.
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But if the talk around the deal that Yzerman only talked to Grier could just mean that Yzerman mis-valued Walman and nobody else knew of his availability when it all went down.
 
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sampler said:
I only used Gourde as an example because acquisition costs are not relevant. It's all about what you currently bring to the table.

Wow. My assessment of Walman is entirely different. It's like we are watching two different guys. I agree that he is prone to a bad turnover here and there. But, playing 27 mins, that's gunna happen. And to say he cant defend? I don't get it. None of the stats back you up as Ive seen it.

All that said, I suppose that if grier has moved him for a first, then I suppose he agrees with you.
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In fairness to Walman he has fared way better in a #1 role than I expected him to but it's still nowhere near good enough to take him seriously as a top pair or even top four option as we try to build this team into a contender. Maybe he could be an offensive specialist #4 if the three guys ahead of him are 2016 era Vlasic, Braun and Martin but that kind of player is extremely easy to acquire. He takes too many risks with the puck for his skill level while also being weirdly passive defensively. Combined with the off-ice stuff and the fact he's almost 30, Walman was never a long term solution.

What if he puts up another 23-24 esque season next year? Nobody will want him. Take the 1st now.
 
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sampler said:
Cant get a whole lot during summer '25 for a '26 late 1st. I understand that accumulating assets always helps, and I hope you are right that this pick is used to get a more 23-25 year old top 4 replacement.

That said, with Walman gone, the sharks have ZERO clear top 4 Dmen going forward. None. Zero. Mukh is the closest possibility but still a mile from being annointed even close. Ferraro is next closest but we know hes not adding anything offensively and is a borderline #4. Liljgren is after that, but he too was a healthy scratch and hasnt looked very good overall. bascially, we got nothin'. At least nothing remotely proven.

If walman is gone, Grier is gunna need to add at least two top 4 Dmen this summer to create even a mediocre D, and really 3 to create any semblance of respectability.

What the hell is his plan? To be dead last the next 3 years again?

When does the talent ADDING phase begin?
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Last summer we traded vegas’s first and Edstrom for askarov. First round picks (even ones expected to be late picks) absolutely have value.
 
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Hodge said:
No, what you're arguing is that the entire league mis-valued Walman in the offseason but the genius Oilers management team who fumbled Broberg and Holloway because they spent all their money on washed up garbage like Jeff Skinner, Arvidsson and Henrique is accurately valuing him right now.

Great, the Sharks are better when Walman is on the ice with the top six compared to when Thrun or Vlasic is on the ice with Goodrow and Kunin. That definitely makes him worth a 1st+.
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Yes, they did. obviously so. The league did not value Walman properly, and credit to grier for taking advantage of it. Obviously. Furthermore, the cap hadnt risen yet, so his 3.4 this year and next year was significant on the cap. Now, with the much higher cap next year, his 3.4M cap hit next year is a far better deal, thus further raising his current value.

And yeah, the sharks are way better with walman on the ice than without him. You are claiming that is more a comment on the failures of ferraro, Thrun, Ruuta, Liljgren, etc than the virtues of Walman. I can see that argument, and there is likely merit to it. However, it remains a pretty singificant difference, since walman plays nearly half the game.

How can pending UFA dumoulin be worth a '25 2nd while a far superiod walman with a highly discounted year be worth a '26 1st (which is only slightly lower value than a '25 2nd).

The only reason grier could possibly want to make this trade is to get even younger, figuring no chance that he would want to extend a to-be 30 year old walman. I get that idea if and only if, you see the next 2-3 years as further bottom feeding years and want to be as primed as possible for the '27-'28 season and beyond with an army of guys in the 23-29 age range then. Celly and smith would be 21/22 years old. Eklund 24. Zetterlund 28. Mukh 26. Askarov 25. Dick/musty/cherny/bystedt/etc all 21-23 years old. Then acquire a few 23-25 year old D over the next few years and they will be 26-28 then.

I get the idea of targeting that age range and time period for making the legit run. However, that will make the next couple years a whole lot of frustration and losses, so I worry that by the time your guys are ready, they will have no winning culture.

obviously, much is hard to predict, but this move seems like a statement by grier that next year, at least, is another dead year.
 
sampler said:
Cant get a whole lot during summer '25 for a '26 late 1st. I understand that accumulating assets always helps, and I hope you are right that this pick is used to get a more 23-25 year old top 4 replacement.

That said, with Walman gone, the sharks have ZERO clear top 4 Dmen going forward. None. Zero. Mukh is the closest possibility but still a mile from being annointed even close. Ferraro is next closest but we know hes not adding anything offensively and is a borderline #4. Liljgren is after that, but he too was a healthy scratch and hasnt looked very good overall. bascially, we got nothin'. At least nothing remotely proven.

If walman is gone, Grier is gunna need to add at least two top 4 Dmen this summer to create even a mediocre D, and really 3 to create any semblance of respectability.

What the hell is his plan? To be dead last the next 3 years again?

When does the talent ADDING phase begin?
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its alot easier for a GM to okay a trade such as Musty+EDM 1st + Thurn for example for xxx to the owner and fanbase vs substituiting with our 2nd even if there is less then 8 picks difference, the optics matter. And for obvious reasons our 1st would be non-tradable barring a stupid gm making a stupid move (Jim Rutherford)
 
Sendhelplease said:
Last summer we traded vegas’s first and Edstrom for askarov. First round picks (even ones expected to be late picks) absolutely have value.
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yes, they have value. Edstrom was also a late first, and was developing possibly higher value. I did not mean to say that they have no value, but with all due respect to askarov, he is a prospect too. that deal was basically two 1sts (one in the future and one already a year into steady development) for another prospect a few years into development.

If grier wants to get a top 4 established young Dman, it will cost a whole lot more than a late 1st a year in the future.

For all our sakes, I hope you are right. I hope that he can parlay whatever return he gets from Walman into a younger top 4D replacement. If he does, then I'm cool. So far, I've yet to see him add almost any talent. Toffoli. Wennberg I guess as a serviceable 3C. he added Walman brilliantly, but now he ditched him.

I think it could be another tough year next year...
 
sampler said:
Yes, they did. obviously so. The league did not value Walman properly, and credit to grier for taking advantage of it. Obviously. Furthermore, the cap hadnt risen yet, so his 3.4 this year and next year was significant on the cap. Now, with the much higher cap next year, his 3.4M cap hit next year is a far better deal, thus further raising his current value.

And yeah, the sharks are way better with walman on the ice than without him. You are claiming that is more a comment on the failures of ferraro, Thrun, Ruuta, Liljgren, etc than the virtues of Walman. I can see that argument, and there is likely merit to it. However, it remains a pretty singificant difference, since walman plays nearly half the game.

How can pending UFA dumoulin be worth a '25 2nd while a far superiod walman with a highly discounted year be worth a '26 1st (which is only slightly lower value than a '25 2nd).

The only reason grier could possibly want to make this trade is to get even younger, figuring no chance that he would want to extend a to-be 30 year old walman. I get that idea if and only if, you see the next 2-3 years as further bottom feeding years and want to be as primed as possible for the '27-'28 season and beyond with an army of guys in the 23-29 age range then. Celly and smith would be 21/22 years old. Eklund 24. Zetterlund 28. Mukh 26. Askarov 25. Dick/musty/cherny/bystedt/etc all 21-23 years old. Then acquire a few 23-25 year old D over the next few years and they will be 26-28 then.

I get the idea of targeting that age range and time period for making the legit run. However, that will make the next couple years a whole lot of frustration and losses, so I worry that by the time your guys are ready, they will have no winning culture.

obviously, much is hard to predict, but this move seems like a statement by grier that next year, at least, is another dead year.
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What makes Walman a "far superior" defenseman than Brian Dumoulin? Dumoulin is far better defensively, bigger, more physical and has been a #1 defenseman on a Stanley Cup champion while Walman has never sniffed the playoffs in his career. I would much rather go into the playoffs with Dumoulin on my team than Walman.

I agree the cap going up and 3/4 of a year ticking down off Walman's contract makes him more valuable than he was in the offseason but the swing from negative 2nd round pick to positive 1st round pick is insanity. 60 games (carried heavily by the first 20) should not change a 29 year old's value that much.
 
It was widely reported in June that the league was shocked that Yzerman paid to get rid of Yzwrman and teams would’ve been willing to give up assets for Walman.

Hodge clamoring the negative value drum because Yzerman did his best Mavericks GM impression is simply wrong.
 
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STL Shark said:
It was widely reported in June that the league was shocked that Yzerman paid to get rid of Yzwrman and teams would’ve been willing to give up assets for Walman.

Hodge clamoring the negative value drum because Yzerman did his best Mavericks GM impression is simply wrong.
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"Widely reported" yet you can't provide a single link. All Seravalli said is that other teams would have taken his contract for a smaller sweetener than a 2nd, not that anyone was willing to trade positive value assets for him.

TheBeard said:
Maybe, but Grier has a lot of ammo from guys that should have gotten him nothing originally, so if there's someone he's targeting he'll overpay.
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He should be targeting NHL players not busts.
 
Hodge said:
"Widely reported" yet you can't provide a single link. All Seravalli said is that other teams would have taken his contract for a smaller sweetener than a 2nd, not that anyone was willing to trade positive value assets for him.


He should be targeting NHL players not busts.
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I'm not scrolling my podcast feed of 32 Thoughts back to June. You're not worth it.
 
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