W Nikita Kucherov (2011, 58th overall, Tampa Bay)

[nikyc]

Only scored that one day he got the hat trick. Nothing the other games and has a bad plus/minus.

 

[Ace88*]

Sorry, I'm not following.

What I think you mean though, is you disagree with my assessment.

If that's true, how do you project him, and why?

Lol no the guys i was responding to was slobbering all over Kucherov saying his skill is just a notch below Ovie/Malkin/Crosby and was wayyyy overdoing it. Hence my first post.

I project him as either a Filatov-level failure or an Alex Semin lite. Top end of 60-70 points in his prime, 30-35 goals a couple times maybe.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Lol no the guys i was responding to was slobbering all over Kucherov saying his skill is just a notch below Ovie/Malkin/Crosby and was wayyyy overdoing it. Hence my first post.

I project him as either a Filatov-level failure or an Alex Semin lite. Top end of 60-70 points in his prime, 30-35 goals a couple times maybe.

This kid has the second best slap shot ive ever seen this is 35 years of watching hockey.

Hull was devastating and I dont think his is as good. Stamkos is better. I dont see anyone like this the kid plays better at end of game when its all on the line he is always the guy who gets it done the game winner.

This is why people gush over him. He has an elite slap shot. ELITE. Till you actually see it in the future you can say he wont be as good as such and such. He is also very good at passing. He is decent at skating and improving. He is willing to hit people and play defense which is vastly improving in leaps and bounds.

So you can have your evaluation but imo of guys not in nhl he is in top 10 of prospects in the world of upside.

I call him clutcherov already because how he ends games. He has done this in every area he has played. He is a finisher lol. More deadly the higher the stakes.

If you can find someone with that resume doing that in 8 or 9 different arena's so to speak or league settings etc.. I would like to see them cause want that guy on my team.

So if he becomes what you are saying I will give you a nod and say oops missed this one by a far margin. Yet I think is more likely he is a 40-50 goal man a point per game guy and has a couple 100 point years. I see him becoming a two way player up to par of federov in his best years.

You can think what you want but he has the tools to be Elite and seems to have the work ethic to get there and attitude.

If wasnt so high on drouin and vasilevski would be even higher on this kid. I think he winds up being the best of the young russians unless is galchenyuk whom I love and always have. His two way game is really good for a kid that young.

I think kucherov can score more goals but might never be as good overall as galchenyuk who I expect really great things from and for him galchenyuk to get in conversation of malkin or ovechkin I am unsure kucherov ever gets there playing in stamkos and drouins shadow but we will see.

For sure I am not as high on any other russian is one but has history with bad shoulder so think kucherov passes him too. I am sure you know who that is. Will kucherov be as good or better than grigorenko or nails? I say yes.

 

[Ace88*]

So basically you think hes going to be one of the best players in the league during his time.

Alright then sheriff im not going to argue with you lol. Im just saying get ready for disappointment.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

So basically you think hes going to be one of the best players in the league during his time.

Alright then sheriff im not going to argue with you lol. Im just saying get ready for disappointment.

point per game guys? is about what 20-30 per year? I would guess without looking.

Yes think he will be on the second rung types outside of top 10 players. Yet that is pretty good and am unsure he can get out of the shadow of marty stamkos or drouin stamkos to get truly appreciated in the future.


I have said when put marty stamkos and kucherov or drouin stamkos and kucherov as a top line you could see the first line in forever with 3 100 point guys at the same time and could also see the best line since edmonton.


I truly do believe that. I am not the only person who believes this lol.


Will also say this I know people who think kucherov can be as good as ovie.

Now all of that is up to this kid. He is gonna have to work his tail off and really commit to becoming that great. I have seen nothing which would suggest he wont do this. He does everything he is asked to do. He works harder than any russian I have seen who has came over at english and working out and working on what the team asks of him.

So I will say this maybe not by end of this season heck maybe even not next season but the year after?

He will be something to see in NHL and you will know your stats were garbage on this kid. Cause he will never ever be a 30 goal man with a couple of 50-60 point years lol or he will flat out bust and not make the team in tampa.

I think the odds of that are ZERO. I think he becomes as great as federov in his best years because he will be playing with two other guys on tampas top line who are flat out elite!!



Also I know drouin is gonna be a bust too cause he got sent down to chl this year. So I am wrong about both of them. Stamkos is gonna slide into being a bum also and marty retires but hey others can dream

Only scored that one day he got the hat trick. Nothing the other games and has a bad plus/minus.

He had an assist that day also.

One note we have entirely new D guys with injuries right now at syracuse. I dont blame the lines of forwards for that nonsense or on starting desjardins who stunk up a game.

The whole team has a crappy plus minus right now except a few guys and the D is gonna take some time too many new kids came in and just need to gel together and get their acts together and when people like Cote come back this will be a heck of a different team.

I do not expect kucherov to lead the league in points this year. By the end of the year though I would bet he is scoring at a pace higher or as close to as high as anyone in the league.

I hope he just keeps improving on his 2 way play to be honest and works harder at that than scoring.

 

[HotPaquette]

Lol no the guys i was responding to was slobbering all over Kucherov saying his skill is just a notch below Ovie/Malkin/Crosby and was wayyyy overdoing it. Hence my first post.

I project him as either a Filatov-level failure or an Alex Semin lite. Top end of 60-70 points in his prime, 30-35 goals a couple times maybe.

I don't see him as a filatov level failure simply because he didn't have the draft hype and expectations sorounding him. I would agree with the Alex semin lite projection but I think with his work ethic and dedication to defense he has displayed along with clearly wanting to play in Tampa, he could become a more complete player than semin, but I agree with the point prediction.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I don't know if it's because he's Russian or because he wasn't a 1st rounder but he's been one of the best goal scorers if not the best goal scorer everywhere he's gone.

2010 World Jr A Challenge - 2 goals in 4 games (tied for 1st in points)
2011 U-18 - 11 goals in 7 games (1st in goals/ holds tournament record for points)
2011 Super Series - 4 goals in 6 games (1st in goals)
2012 MHL - 24 goals in 23 games (1st in gpg)
2013 WJC - 5 goals in 7 games (tied for 3rd in goals/ tied for 1st in game winners)
2013 QMJHL - 29 goals in 33 games (26g in 27 with Rouyn-Noranda)
2013 QMJHL playoffs - 9 goals in 14 games

worlds game tying goal in quarter finals game winning shootout goal.
game winning shootout goal in u18 also quarterfinal game winner for u18
2 goals in the bronze medal game of u18
was on pace for fourth in gwg in the q last year and didnt slow down in playoffs.


So then the kid comes to prospect camp and the 3 on 3's and what happens first day he doesnt do well. Second day everything on the line?

He has game tying goal in quarterfinals, he has shootout goal 1-1 game that goes 7 full shootout rounds to win that game.

He has game winning goal in semi finals.

In finals he puts in only goal that gets by vasilevski on that full day lol.

So than comes to camp doesnt do well first few games gets a couple assists only. Second to last game what does he do? Game tying goal and the shootout winner.

Final game moving ahead goal we added a couple more in third and think other team got one more so was not a game winning goal. Think stamkos wound up with the game winner late in game but that put us up by two think won by three or something.



So you can say what you think like I said. When you see someone like that your just feeling blessed and hope they keep developing cause if they do you have something truly elite and special.

He is truly elite with a slap shot on the right circle. Or anywhere at that range on the ice. He goes to the net also well. Good luck to every and any goalie on stopping him on right circle or lower and stamkos on left.

Is gonna be like watching a pin ball machine we get a true point guy for power play defender and someone to stand in front of net I think we will have one of best power plays in world.

 

[Ace88*]

point per game guys? is about what 20-30 per year? I would guess without looking.

Yes think he will be on the second rung types outside of top 10 players. Yet that is pretty good and am unsure he can get out of the shadow of marty stamkos or drouin stamkos to get truly appreciated in the future.


I have said when put marty stamkos and kucherov or drouin stamkos and kucherov as a top line you could see the first line in forever with 3 100 point guys at the same time and could also see the best line since edmonton.


I truly do believe that. I am not the only person who believes this lol.


Will also say this I know people who think kucherov can be as good as ovie.

Now all of that is up to this kid. He is gonna have to work his tail off and really commit to becoming that great. I have seen nothing which would suggest he wont do this. He does everything he is asked to do. He works harder than any russian I have seen who has came over at english and working out and working on what the team asks of him.

So I will say this maybe not by end of this season heck maybe even not next season but the year after?

He will be something to see in NHL and you will know your stats were garbage on this kid. Cause he will never ever be a 30 goal man with a couple of 50-60 point years lol or he will flat out bust and not make the team in tampa.

I think the odds of that are ZERO. I think he becomes as great as federov in his best years because he will be playing with two other guys on tampas top line who are flat out elite!!



Also I know drouin is gonna be a bust too cause he got sent down to chl this year. So I am wrong about both of them. Stamkos is gonna slide into being a bum also and marty retires but hey others can dream

The fact that you thought there are 20-30 PPG players in the NHL each season tells me you clearly do not live here in reality. Seriously? Stamkos has never hit 100 points playing with one of the best playmakers in the world on his wing, im not saying he can't do it, but think about what you're saying. Drouin sure i can see floating around 80-85 points a few times, but 100 points per season? Get real. Kucherov has some real talent for sure but i dont think you understand the game of hockey at the NHL level if you're predicting 100 point seasons from Nikita frickin Kucherov lol. Also with regards to your last paragraph here, come on man you just sound like a little kid overreacting. You know damn well i didn't say anything to imply any of that so i dont know why you would even post that.

 

[Necropolis]

C'mon Robert, you're really, really overrating Kucherov now. First off, I doubt that he, Drouin and Stamkos will play together. How does that make any sense? Those are three offensive dynamos with no physicality and none of them are great defensively - although all of them could improve in that area (Stamkos has looked very good defensively this season). Now, saying that that it's more likely that he'll become a 100 point guy than a 30-30 guy is just stupid. I'm really high on Kucherov and I believe that he's one of the most offensively skilled prospects right now but hell, what are the odds that MacKinnon, Kuznetsov, Drouin or Yakupov etc. will be 100 point players? I'd say that Kuznetsov is the one who could be a 100 point player and I even doubt that. If he'll be a 30-30 guy I'm gonna be really, really happy. If you get a 60 point top-6 winger in the late 2nd round that's a steal. I can see he's highest upside being something like 45-45 but I don't see him ever being that kind of a player. 100 points is already absurd.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

The fact that you thought there are 20-30 PPG players in the NHL each season tells me you clearly do not live here in reality. Seriously? Stamkos has never hit 100 points playing with one of the best playmakers in the world on his wing, im not saying he can't do it, but think about what you're saying. Drouin sure i can see floating around 80-85 points a few times, but 100 points per season? Get real. Kucherov has some real talent for sure but i dont think you understand the game of hockey at the NHL level if you're predicting 100 point seasons from Nikita frickin Kucherov lol. Also with regards to your last paragraph here, come on man you just sound like a little kid overreacting. You know damn well i didn't say anything to imply any of that so i dont know why you would even post that.

Dont make garbage statements your better than that and you know it. Stamkos has hit 97 and 94 that is close enough to 100. He is 24 jeez


I have seen you all over this board Voice and think your a very smart man. Take some time and watch kucherov you are going to see what I see. Marty has hit 100 points without stamkos

So yes I think we have a three line coming that could break that barrier.

Drouin was drafted expecting to be Marty's replacement meaning he could hit 100 points he could win trophies lead the league in scoring etc... Otherwise stevie would have taken jones.

If you think stevie does not know what he is doing or how to evaluate talent than that is your call.


You want me to start the list of guys who are around the point per games I can go team by team if felt like it probably but you got hossa kane toews marty stamkos giroux datsyuk zetterberg crosby malkin both sedins thats ten without really trying.

just cause a guy plays 72 games and notches 69 points does not make him not a point per game player.

Want to start with the kids that are doing it?

Go look at the stats since 2007 see if is not 20 guys each year. Crosby misses tons of games one year datsyuk etc.. Yet year in and out is like the top 16 guys to 18 guys hitting 1.0 and playing full years than you have 5-6 guys each year have injuries but also hitting 1.0 per game.

So to say I dont know what am talking about etc.. is making you seem not to know what your talking about. Am sure has not been 30 without checking but is between 20-30 guys each years since 2007-2008 who hit 1.0 points per game. Guys that do it year in and out and I expect that of drouin and kucherov.

http://statshockey.homestead.com/pro/nhlscoring2007_08.html


Go look it up see whose right and wrong. You are making up bad statements to make your point.

I will say was a down couple of years but guys who were hitting 1.0 and missed by 3-4 goals should count lmao. So the 98% 95% etc.. should probably count if they had been doing it year in and out. Last year scoring was back up. This year seems to be back up again so far. I would expect with goalie rules scoring will be back up for awhile.

Is all good honestly. I will be happy with any prospect who gets 0.5 points a game.

I have a lot higher expectations on three guys vasilevskis as our goalie drouin and kucherov. We will see if that pans out or not. I expect those three to be ELITE players. Having stamkos is going to help them and the rest of the core group we will have

C'mon Robert, you're really, really overrating Kucherov now. First off, I doubt that he, Drouin and Stamkos will play together. How does that make any sense? Those are three offensive dynamos with no physicality and none of them are great defensively - although all of them could improve in that area (Stamkos has looked very good defensively this season). Now, saying that that it's more likely that he'll become a 100 point guy than a 30-30 guy is just stupid. I'm really high on Kucherov and I believe that he's one of the most offensively skilled prospects right now but hell, what are the odds that MacKinnon, Kuznetsov, Drouin or Yakupov etc. will be 100 point players? I'd say that Kuznetsov is the one who could be a 100 point player and I even doubt that. If he'll be a 30-30 guy I'm gonna be really, really happy. If you get a 60 point top-6 winger in the late 2nd round that's a steal. I can see he's highest upside being something like 45-45 but I don't see him ever being that kind of a player. 100 points is already absurd.

I have watched a lot of hockey. I have seen the best imo at slap shots in the last 35 years. Kucherov is LETHAL. Second best ive ever seen behind stamkos. So no dont feel over rating the kid he is going to be that good. Also he is going to become GREAT at two way play. Not just good but great maybe not in top 5 players but top 20 two way guys yeah I see that.

Mackinnon might hit 100 depending on team mates he is super fast and he is good. Am not sure of Yakopov he might with healthy RNH.

Kuznetsov is imo the highest rated bust waiting to happen ive ever seen. He has that shoulder I think it ruins him at this point. Is just like a guy who gets multiple concussions is sad but if comes to NHL I figure he keeps getting boarded and keeps having that same old injury. Maybe am wrong and wish that kid all the luck in the world but twice so far. I think he is in deep trouble in the future.

Federov came in EXACTLY like kucherov on defensive end. He became best in game. Flat out the best there was at that time. Takes work Kucherov is already same size as stamkos without going to roberts camp yet etc.. where you can be sure he spends the next few years every summer.

Not saying these guys do it year in and out. I figure they will be like marty and stamkos with upgrade to purcell etc.. a guy who can keep up to the point a game standard and certain years will be healthy and just on and yes could all three have magical year or years. Marty has hit 74 points and 103 than 60 in 48 so another 100 point year? You have those years. So yes think they can hit 100 together once or a couple or few times

I have said and will repeat it. Drouin is number one prospect not in NHL right now vasi is top five and kucherov is top 10.

We will see if it pans out as said anyone who comes into NHL and puts up 0.5 points game as a forward or center I am ecstatic with. I just think those three are on a whole different level.

 

[Bolt32]

I see the upside of Kucherov, i really do. The upside of him is a few 90+ point seasons, with MAYBE and that is a huge freaking maybe of one hundred point season. The rest I see him multiple eighty point seasons probably a sixty or seventy point season to get his legs going.

That is his upside however, and should be noted I don't consider him a guarantee for him to hit it.

30-30 is a realistic expectation, but I guess you can call me crazy on this as I see his upside of what Robert is saying. Just don't think he is there yet, and I do leave room to doubt on it.

 

[Ace88*]

Last season was a shortened season and there were a whole ton of statistical outliers. There were 20 players that played 30 games or more that were at 1 PPG or greater, the most there has been since 2005/06 i believe. In 2011/12, there were 10 players that played 41 games or more with a PPG of 1.0 or more. In 2010/11, there were 14 players that played 41 games or

Number of players with 41 games or more played at 1.0 ppg or more:

2013: 20
2011-12: 10
2010-11: 14
2009-2010: 21
2008-2009: 19
2007-2008: 23
2006-2007: 32

More per year than i thought, but many of them played less than 75 games so it's a little bit skewed--my inference in saying PPG is players that hit 80+ points a season. Im happy to admit that i was not as black-and-white correct as i thought, but i think it's more fair to say that there's 10-20 PPG players per season. Kucherov might be able to sneak in there once or twice, but expecting it each season is a pretty tall, unrealistic order for him. Let's wait to see what he can do in the NHL before anointing him as good as Ovechkin lol.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I see the upside of Kucherov, i really do. The upside of him is a few 90+ point seasons, with MAYBE and that is a huge freaking maybe of one hundred point season. The rest I see him multiple eighty point seasons probably a sixty or seventy point season to get his legs going.

That is his upside however, and should be noted I don't consider him a guarantee for him to hit it.

30-30 is a realistic expectation, but I guess you can call me crazy on this as I see his upside of what Robert is saying. Just don't think he is there yet, and I do leave room to doubt on it.

This I agree with I think though he does hit his limit cause he will pay the dues and do everything he needs to in order to get there. I am really looking forward to seeing him in four years and finding out if he can become as good of a defender as he will be as a scorer cause than even if he is a 60-70 point guy man is he valuable.

He is good the slap shot is legit so is up to him will he work hard enough at 20 and each year after this to become ELITE at 24-30? I think he will and that is a matter of time



No one is guaranteed anything except I do think he will surpass others who are way ahead of him at this time in the eyes of the world. Yet that is the work ethic that I have seen so far. Who knows maybe he gets homesick odder things have happened

Last season was a shortened season and there were a whole ton of statistical outliers. There were 20 players that played 30 games or more that were at 1 PPG or greater, the most there has been since 2005/06 i believe. In 2011/12, there were 10 players that played 41 games or more with a PPG of 1.0 or more. In 2010/11, there were 14 players that played 41 games or

Number of players with 41 games or more played at 1.0 ppg or more:

2013: 20
2011-12: 10
2010-11: 14
2009-2010: 21
2008-2009: 19
2007-2008: 23
2006-2007: 32

More per year than i thought, but many of them played less than 75 games so it's a little bit skewed--my inference in saying PPG is players that hit 80+ points a season. Im happy to admit that i was not as black-and-white correct as i thought, but i think it's more fair to say that there's 10-20 PPG players per season. Kucherov might be able to sneak in there once or twice, but expecting it each season is a pretty tall, unrealistic order for him. Let's wait to see what he can do in the NHL before anointing him as good as Ovechkin lol.

I can live with that I never said he would be malkin or ovie Next level a toews a kane a hossa giroux? Ya can see him reaching those levels could they ever hit 100? Right team mates? I think maybe all of them could think hossa maybe has? Not looking mind you lol.

Goalie equipment change is a big deal think scoring is going back up again. Each of those down years you had guys not hitting 1.0 who were hitting before etc.. Have to keep that in mind. Also yes last years numbers should be thrown away lol. Yet if a guy plays 82 games and hits 74 points say marty I just say that is a weird year etc.. Is a lot of guys each year hitting 2-3 maybe even 5 points within a point per game. If they have hit it a few times I give them benefit of doubt why probably thought was higher 20's Knew we had down years didnt expect the 10 and 14 numbers lol.

We are also going to have expansion during the prime years of having stamkos at 28 range and kucherov drouin in low to mid 20's? This is prime years watered down NHL etc.. Scoring should go up during those times depending on how many teams they add I figure at least two are coming and maybe up to six. The league could add six. Is definitely 6 cities that could do teams since canada could add three for sure

 

[Necropolis]

He had a goal and an assist tonight against Binghamton. Seems to have nice chemistry with Vlad Namestnikov.

 

[Mikeaveli]

Honestly loving how much of a steal this kid was at 58th. The "Russian Factor" is basically non-existent with this guy, especially after the whole shoulder fiasco.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Last season was a shortened season and there were a whole ton of statistical outliers. There were 20 players that played 30 games or more that were at 1 PPG or greater, the most there has been since 2005/06 i believe. In 2011/12, there were 10 players that played 41 games or more with a PPG of 1.0 or more. In 2010/11, there were 14 players that played 41 games or

Number of players with 41 games or more played at 1.0 ppg or more:

2013: 20
2011-12: 10
2010-11: 14
2009-2010: 21
2008-2009: 19
2007-2008: 23
2006-2007: 32

More per year than i thought, but many of them played less than 75 games so it's a little bit skewed--my inference in saying PPG is players that hit 80+ points a season. Im happy to admit that i was not as black-and-white correct as i thought, but i think it's more fair to say that there's 10-20 PPG players per season. Kucherov might be able to sneak in there once or twice, but expecting it each season is a pretty tall, unrealistic order for him. Let's wait to see what he can do in the NHL before anointing him as good as Ovechkin lol.

Yeah, all you have to do is look at the number of guys who are career PPG or better, and it's absolutely miniscule in comparison to the number of guys who have played in the league - especially if you look in the past 20 years.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

two more points tonight 5 goals in five games 3 assists I believe.

Not a bad ahl start I would say.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Lead AHL among rookies - 6+5 after only 7 games. He has as much points as Omark in 3 less games...

 

[thrillhous]

Wow, another 2 goals and 2 assists tonight. Brings his total to 8 goals and 7 assists in 8 games. Very impressive rookie numbers and he's a young rookie as a 1993.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Tampa's forward pipeline is just nuts.

 

[start winnin]

This guy's so underrated, how did he ever get to pick 58?? Dat russian factor, too stronk

 

[Wats]

Any chance he gets called up for a reward taste of NHL?

 

[Alivesi]

Any chance he gets called up for a reward taste of NHL?

Probably not, the only expendable wingers in the top six we have right now are Malone and Panik, and they aren't playing "bad" just not well, however I think they are still up there because they are able to play physical, I don't think Kucherov is ready for that in the NHL just yet.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

This kid is good

 

[Franck]

I really dig how the Lightning draft. It seems like they ignore the typical things like size, "toughness", injury history and even the "Russian factor" and just ask, can this guy play? As a result they have what I consider to be one of the very best prospect pools in the entire NHL.

I've been high on Kucherov since his draft year. Great to see him doing so well in the AHL, I hope he keeps it up.