W Beckett Sennecke - Oshawa Generals, OHL (2024, 3rd, ANA)

[wetcoast]

I already mentioned that the scouting is a big piece and that I was only making a commentary on Sennecke’s numbers. Especially since we’re assuming he would have maintained his PPG against London if he weren’t injured; I think that’s a bad assumption, looking at how good London is.

If you want to bring Halttunen up, are we going to say that Halttunen is going to be an elite playoff performer in the NHL because he’s scored a bucketful of goals in the OHL playoffs? What I think is disingenuous is comparing CHL playoffs to NHL playoffs—we’ve seen dozens and dozens of supposed “playoff performers” in juniors flounder in the NHL playoffs because it’s not comparable at all. I mean, remember how “clutch” Jordan Eberle was going to be?

I do like Sennecke and would happily take him in the 10-15 range. I’m not trying to take anything away from the player.

Jordan Eberle has scored 299 NHL goals, for an 22nd overall pick he hasn't really underperformed has he?

Agree with the rest of your post though.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

It could be so, but it’s a bad look when his increase in production coincides with the team’s star player returning from injury to play on his line.

It would be a bad look if his production didn't increase when he started playing with a star player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It would be a bad look if his production didn't increase when he started playing with a star player.

Yes, and you aren’t drafting him to play with Ritchie. You need to know what you have of him independent of that.

 

[majormajor]

Yes, and you aren’t drafting him to play with Ritchie. You need to know what you have of him independent of that.

I'd mostly want to know how Sennecke performs with a decently talented player, someone who can make and take a pass like an NHLer would.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Oshawa also collapsed spectacularly without him.

 

[montreal]

Sennecke Crossbar 2:26
Sennecke Nice Play 8:15
Sennecke Hit 8:40
Senneke Nice Move in OT 26:20

 

[Juxtaposer]

Oshawa also collapsed spectacularly without him.

But at the same time, London has been dismantling teams. I don’t think it’s necessarily reasonable to assume that they wouldn’t have collapsed with Sennecke playing.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Very interesting prospect with the possibility of a huge ceiling but he plays an extremely junior game with a ton of reckless turnovers, atrocious defensive play at times and as well as poor body language . He has very few start and stops as a winger should and consistently cheats with looping routes that take him out of position for far too long. This stuff is all very correctable if he has the right attitude and imo that is the key with this kid. I think he is likely 3 years away from the NHL and will need to be handled properly.

He looks to be physically and mentally immature so there is a gamble here and any team seriously considering drafting him inside the top ten will really need to do their homework on him.

 

[Kents polished head]

Very interesting prospect with the possibility of a huge ceiling but he plays an extremely junior game with a ton of reckless turnovers, atrocious defensive play at times and as well as poor body language . He has very few start and stops as a winger should and consistently cheats with looping routes that take him out of position for far too long. This stuff is all very correctable if he has the right attitude and imo that is the key with this kid. I think he is likely 3 years away from the NHL and will need to be handled properly.

He looks to be physically and mentally immature so there is a gamble here and any team seriously considering drafting him inside the top ten will really need to do their homework on him.

This. Especially the maturity part.

I'm a Habs fan and this is the only forward prospect discussed at #5 that I would be pissed if we end up picking. The bust potential is huge.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

This. Especially the maturity part.

I'm a Habs fan and this is the only forward prospect discussed at #5 that I would be pissed if we end up picking. The bust potential is huge.

Parekh is the one that I don't want any part of but I will trust HuGo to do their due diligence as they will have the same concerns and will need to have them alleviated before feeling comfortable with selecting him.

Sennecke could be an absolute steal at #5 or he could bust and be another Ho-Sang

 

[BillDineen]

Any chance he is tried at center next year?

 

[Garbageyuk]

Any chance he is tried at center next year?

He’s slow and weak on his skates, poor defensively, and questionable in terms of hockey IQ, so my question is, why would you ask that?

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

He’s slow and weak on his skates, poor defensively, and questionable in terms of hockey IQ, so my question is, why would you ask that?

What? Literally all of those skill assessments are different from what I have seen from this player. I don’t think he’s a future center, but he is very involved defensively and IQ is his best trait.

 

[Garbageyuk]

What? Literally all of those skill assessments are different from what I have seen from this player. I don’t think he’s a future center, but he is very involved defensively and IQ is his best trait.

How much have you seen? IQ is definitely not his best trait.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

How much have you seen? IQ is definitely not his best trait.

20+ full games spread over 2 years. IQ is definitely the thing about him that has stood out to me and the reason I have seen that many of his games. Effective creativity is hard to come by and he has it in spades.

 

[Garbageyuk]

20+ full games spread over 2 years. IQ is definitely the thing about him that has stood out to me and the reason I have seen that many of his games. Effective creativity is hard to come by and he has it in spades.

I knew that’s what you were talking about. IQ and offensive creativity aren’t necessarily the same thing, especially when Sennecke’s creativity pretty much only has to do with the puck being on his stick (dekes, puck handling). He tries to force plays, often holds onto the puck too long, misses the simple/effective play, skates himself into trouble, and turns the puck over a lot thanks to this creativity as well. He isn’t a great playmaker, and his vision is nothing special. Those are all IQ issues.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I knew that’s what you were talking about. IQ and offensive creativity aren’t necessarily the same thing, especially when Sennecke’s creativity pretty much only has to do with the puck being on his stick (dekes, puck handling). He tries to force plays, often holds onto the puck too long, misses the simple/effective play, skates himself into trouble, and turns the puck over a lot thanks to this creativity as well. He isn’t a playmaker, and his vision is nothing special. Those are all IQ issues.

Those are all young player/experience issues and you are very much overstating them IMO, you want guys making difficult plays at this stage to learn what they can and can’t do. He adapts very quickly to his competition and exploits their tendencies. He reads defenders and coverage very well, using feints and cutbacks to open lanes, his vision and passing is excellent.

In my eyes, he is a guy that very clearly thinks the game at a level above his current physical abilities, he makes great decisions, but often doesn’t execute to perfection. That is very normal and should improve dramatically over time with reps. He is very raw in that sense and does turn it over, but he is also one of the first guys back and battles for possession all over the ice. Demonstrates high compete and a growth mindset IMO, traits you absolutely covet in a guy with his projectable toolset.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Those are all young player/experience issues and you are very much overstating them IMO, you want guys making difficult plays at this stage to learn what they can and can’t do. He adapts very quickly to his competition and exploits their tendencies. He reads defenders and coverage very well, using feints and cutbacks to open lanes, his vision and passing is excellent.

In my eyes, he is a guy that very clearly thinks the game at a level above his current physical abilities, he makes great decisions, but often doesn’t execute to perfection. That is very normal and should improve dramatically over time with reps. He is very raw in that sense and does turn it over, but he is also one of the first guys back and battles for possession all over the ice. Demonstrates high compete and a growth mindset IMO, traits you absolutely covet in a guy with his projectable toolset.

Your post is coming off as you liking the player, so you’re dismissing legitimate criticisms and flaws in his game as “young player issues”. Thats called bias. All the players in this draft are young. You could dismiss criticism of any of these players as “young player issues”. It doesn’t change the fact that these criticisms and flaws are valid, and that there are players in this class who are much better in these areas than Sennecke. He lacks IQ, but is creative with the puck on his stick. Can he improve? Sure, but you can say that about any player this age.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Parekh is the one that I don't want ant part of but I will trust HuGo to do their due diligence as they will have the same concerns and will need to have them alleviated before feeling comfortable with selecting him.

Sennecke could be an absolute steal at #5 or he could bust and be another Ho-Sang

I personally don't see him even being in their purview. The only defenceman I think they'd consider assuming Levshunov is gone is Buium

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Your post is coming off as you liking the player, so you’re dismissing legitimate criticisms and flaws in his game as “young player issues”. Thats called bias. All the players in this draft are young. You could dismiss criticism of any of these players as “young player issues”. It doesn’t change the fact that these criticisms and flaws are valid, and that there are players in this class who are much better in these areas than Sennecke. He lacks IQ, but is creative with the puck on his stick. Can he improve? Sure, but you can say that about any player this age.

I am viewing it as the player he is likely to become, not what he is at the current moment in time. I am assuming he is two years or more away from seeing NHL ice. And frankly disagree with you about IQ entirely. I like the potential in this player a lot, I have no personal connection to him or his team and my only bias is that I have found his games to be highly impressive and enjoy watching him play hockey.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I am viewing it as the player he is likely to become, not what he is at the current moment in time. I am assuming he is two years or more away from seeing NHL ice. And frankly disagree with you about IQ entirely. I like the potential in this player a lot, I have no personal connection to him or his team and my only bias is that I have found his games to be highly impressive and enjoy watching him play hockey.

I’m not here to try and change your opinion. We see things differently. That’s ok. But let me ask you something. Does he not remind you of KK at the same age? I’m not sure how much you watched KK at that age, but to me, they look so similar out there: strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, the way they move, decision making, etc. They’re even the same size and were both late risers. Forget the fact that KK has been disappointing for a second. To me they are very similar players on the ice. The difference is going to be personality, attitude, and work ethic - all areas where KK was lacking. Eager to see Sennecke’s combine and interviews.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I’m not here to try and change your opinion. We see things differently. That’s ok. But let me ask you something. Does he not remind you of KK at the same age? I’m not sure how much you watched KK at that age, but to me, they look so similar out there: strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, the way they move, decision making, etc. They’re even the same size and were both late risers. Forget the fact that KK has been disappointing for a second. To me they are very similar players on the ice. The difference is going to be personality, attitude, and work ethic - all areas where KK was lacking. Eager to see Sennecke’s combine and interviews.

I’m not sure which KK you are referring to as there are several, but I will assume Kotkaniemi who I did not find very interesting as a prospect or NHLer personally. I agree that we seem to just be seeing things differently on this player. I am also very interested in his combine though, for me, his VO2 max will be important, conditioning potential is probably my main concern for his future, along with his ability to add mass and muscle to his frame.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I’m not sure which KK you are referring to as there are several, but I will assume Kotkaniemi who I did not find very interesting as a prospect or NHLer personally. I agree that we seem to just be seeing things differently on this player. I am also very interested in his combine though, for me, his VO2 max will be important, conditioning potential is probably my main concern for his future, along with his ability to add mass and muscle to his frame.

Yes, Kotkaniemi. I forgot I was on the main boards for a second lol. As a non-Habs fan, you probably aren’t too familiar with him then, especially when he was that age. You’ve likely only heard and seen the bad, but he was a promising prospect.

 

[montreal]

He’s slow and weak on his skates, poor defensively, and questionable in terms of hockey IQ, so my question is, why would you ask that?

he doesn't strike me as slow. He'll need a few years to physically mature though, major lack of strength but nice hands. I think he's the Habs pick because I assume Demidov falling is a pipe dream and while I haven't seen any WHL games in a couple years, if Lindstrom is hyped as a possible Lindros then it seems unlikely he would make it to 5th OA.

 

[SlafySZN]

Yes, Kotkaniemi. I forgot I was on the main boards for a second lol. As a non-Habs fan, you probably aren’t too familiar with him then, especially when he was that age. You’ve likely only heard and seen the bad, but he was a promising prospect.

Ah, i see. Your opinion of Sennecke is biaised because of Kotkaniemi. They’re not the same type of player, at all.