Traded Vladimir Tarasenko (1 year, 5 million)

[Gil Gunderson]

Alex Wennberg got a better return lol.

Whatever, I'm over it.

 

[flyingfingers]

Alex Wennberg got a better return lol.

Whatever, I'm over it.

That trade actually makes the Tarasenko deal look okay.

Tarasenko is better offensively, but Wennberg is a center and is very good defensively. The guy plays almost 19 mins a night in a shutdown role and is a first-unit PKer.

He's a more valuable player.

 

[dumbdick]

End of the day we got a player as a ufa, he played well for us, and then we converted him into two picks.

Hard to be too mad about the situation, even though we should have gotten way more back.

If the deal was this or nothing back in august, you take it every time.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

That trade actually makes the Tarasenko deal look okay.

Tarasenko is better offensively, but Wennberg is a center and is very good defensively. The guy plays almost 19 mins a night against top lines and is a first unit PKer.

That was my thought too.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

What was tarasenko gonna do if Florida wasn’t in the playoffs and he could be near his family. What if Florida didn’t want him at all

 

[flyingfingers]

What was tarasenko gonna do if Florida wasn’t in the playoffs and he could be near his family. What if Florida didn’t want him at all

He seemed perfectly content playing out the stretch here, collecting his $5M, and getting an early jump on summer.

While I doubt he had interest in re-signing here, he also didn't seem to be craving a move to a playoff team... unless it was Florida.

 

[Alex1234]

I don't think that should be his primary priority. His primary priority needs to be starting to clean house because this team's roster is not close to good enough.

You have to consider it as if we're entering a new rebuild. Hopefully, this one will be faster and better managed than the last one.

But the goal is to restock the cupboards, get the picks that you can, and find the right players to surround whoever you've deemed to be the core.

It's going to be a 2-3 year process.

Keeping Tarasenko to "prove a point" would have been dumb. It sucks that he had a full NMC. But Tarasenko had it, and it's his right to prioritize family. That's what he did. You have to deal with it.

My thoughts too
Aundlaer is not a moron
He sees how Dorion so badly constructed this roster
Dorion thought we were ready to make some noise
We are still bottom feeders after Dorion’s rebuild was finished 3 years ago
He is going to keep as few pieces of the last regime as possible and make it HIS team
It’s just the beginning in opinion

Tank is just one more example why the Sens need to build through the draft. Not many “grade A” free agents are willing to play in Ottawa.

exactly
They are going to tear down Dorion shitshow and build their own roster
Book it

 

[HoweHullOrr]

LOL

You've reappeared and are celebrating like the Senators won the Stanley Cup. LOL.

And I see we have a few new user names today that are experts.

 

[KnockHobbler]

Overrated but whatever

 

[Hale The Villain]

Keeping Tarasenko to "prove a point" would have been dumb. It sucks that he had a full NMC. But Tarasenko had it, and it's his right to prioritize family. That's what he did. You have to deal with it.

It's not "proving a point" it's establishing to other GMs that you won't accept being trade r***d when you are put in a disadvantageous position.

Giroux pulled the same move as Tarasenko and the Flyers still managed to get Tippett and a 1st for him.

An injured Kane only wanted to go the Rangers last year and the Hawks got a conditional 1st.

Back in 20/21 Hall demanded to go to the Bruins with his NTC and even the Sabres were able to get a 2nd round pick and he had a grant total of 2 goals that year.

Even with the caveat of Tarasenko demanding to go to one team, the return is embarrassing.

 

[bert]

What does Pinto have to do with the bad return Staios got for Tarasenko?

Some weird mental gymnastics going on right now.

They had no money to sign Pinto..... because PD signed Korpisalo, Hamonic, Brannstrom and Tarasenko. They also traded for useless Kubalik. Your guy!

It's not "proving a point" it's establishing to other GMs that you won't accept being trade r***d when you are put in a disadvantageous position.

Giroux pulled the same move as Tarasenko and the Flyers still managed to get Tippett and a 1st for him.

An injured Kane only wanted to go the Rangers last year and the Hawks got a conditional 1st.

Back in 20/21 Hall demanded to go to the Bruins with his NTC and even the Sabres were able to get a 2nd round pick and he had a grant total of 2 goals that year.

Even with the caveat of Tarasenko demanding to go to one team, the return is embarrassing.

You've never negotiated with no leverage before eh.

 

[Hale The Villain]

You've never negotiated with no leverage before eh.

I noticed you somehow skipped over my 3 examples of teams that had "no leverage" getting reasonable value for their player, yet it's impossible for Staios to do the same?

 

[NyQuil]

You've got it completely backwards, as usual.

Tarasenko is the party who pulled the dick move here and demanded to be traded to a single team

It's not a dick move for the Sens to tell him that team isn't offering anything and that they aren't going to trade him there because of that while simultaneously giving him a number of other attractive destinations that are willing to pay a fair price.

If he'll only waive for one team and that team won't pay a fair price, not trading him there isn't a dick move, it's simply business.

It’s not a dick move to exercise your NMC.

It can have monetary value in contract negotiations and giving a full one like that is obviously going to hamstring your potential return down the road.

Value wise, it’s a bad trade but I understand why to some extent.

How much negotiating room the Sens actually have is obviously up for debate based on the discussions thus far.

It's not "proving a point" it's establishing to other GMs that you won't accept being trade r***d when you are put in a disadvantageous position.

Giroux pulled the same move as Tarasenko and the Flyers still managed to get Tippett and a 1st for him.

An injured Kane only wanted to go the Rangers last year and the Hawks got a conditional 1st.

Back in 20/21 Hall demanded to go to the Bruins with his NTC and even the Sabres were able to get a 2nd round pick and he had a grant total of 2 goals that year.

Even with the caveat of Tarasenko demanding to go to one team, the return is embarrassing.

Those three players are a tier up, no?

Two future HHoFers and a former Hart winner.

 

[ottawagm]

Tarasenko was a good pro this year and I'm sure he helped Greig and other guys he played with. No problem with the return given he had a NTC.

We may just keep Kubalik so we can keep some players in the AHL for a playoff push.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It’s not a dick move to exercise your NMC.

It can have monetary value in contract negotiations and giving a full one like that is obviously going to hamstring your potential return down the road.

Value wise, it’s a bad trade but I understand why.

Dick move was the wrong description, but he certainly did the Sens no favours and therefore the Sens refusing to deal him to his preferred destination would not be a "dick move" on their part.

Those three players are a tier up, no?

Two future HHoFers and a former Hart winner.

None of them were traded in their prime or when they were at the top of their game, so your point is moot.

Tarasenko was once one of the best goal scorers in the league, but no team is paying for that player in 2023/24.

In 23/24 he has 41 points in 57 games.

Giroux had 42 points in 57 games when he was dealt
Kane had 45 points in 54 games (plus a nagging injury that eventually required surgery)
Hall had 2 goals and 19 points in 37 games

All similar quality players (with the exception of Hall who was struggling) as rentals.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable when I make the argument that there is absolutely no question we should have got more from Florida, even if Tarasenko demanded to go there and nowhere else.

 

[flyingfingers]

It's not "proving a point" it's establishing to other GMs that you won't accept being trade r***d when you are put in a disadvantageous position.

Giroux pulled the same move as Tarasenko and the Flyers still managed to get Tippett and a 1st for him.

An injured Kane only wanted to go the Rangers last year and the Hawks got a conditional 1st.

Back in 20/21 Hall demanded to go to the Bruins with his NTC and even the Sabres were able to get a 2nd round pick and he had a grant total of 2 goals that year.

Even with the caveat of Tarasenko demanding to go to one team, the return is embarrassing.

You're really overrating Tarasenko. Listen to how non-Sens fans describe the player to get a more accurate gauge of what people think. I was watching TSN this afternoon, and the gist was "depth piece" and "complementary guy who can chip in on the 2nd PP unit."

Both Claude Giroux and Patrick Kane were in a different league when it came to value. Not only were they better players at the time, but their pedigree and status were significantly higher.

Tarasenko was a nice story here amidst another disaster of a season, but nobody else around the league sees him as a needle mover. His playoff performance with the Rangers last him quashed that reputation. There's a reason he had to settle for a one-year deal in Ottawa last summer.

And Patrick Kane went for a 2nd + 4th, but he was traded alongside a 6'5 defenseman who was playing over 18 minutes a night. The 2nd could have turned into a 1st had the Rangers made the ECF, which didn't happen.

Without the NMC, Tarasenko probably goes for a 2nd + 4th. That's what Wennberg went for a couple hours later, and he's a more versatile player who plays a more important position.

So a 3rd + 4th isn't the catastrophe you make it out to be.

 

[aragorn]

It's a shitty return but the Sens did what they usually do & that is accomodate a payer who they believe has been a good soldier for the team this yr & took a loss for it IMO. Chychrun could be next in play, I doubt there will be any offers in on Kubalik or Brannstrom & both will be released at the end of the season & likely both end up back in Europe.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't know how you don't put your foot down and tell a divisional rival that if they want a legit top 6 forward they'll need to give up a late 2nd next season at the very least.

It's an embarrassing return. Signals to the rest of the league that when backed into a corner you'll settle for a crap offer instead of insisting on a fair return.

Doesn't bode well for Chychrun offers.



Retaining 50% on a 5M contract as a third team is worth around the 4th round pick we got.

So yeah it was basically Tarasenko for a late 3rd round pick a year from now.

Not a great sign that our rookie GM is up to the job, frankly.

NJD got a 4th for taking on 1.125m

 

[bert]

I noticed you somehow skipped over my 3 examples of teams that had "no leverage" getting reasonable value for their player, yet it's impossible for Staios to do the same?

Those situations arent this one. Giroux did not have a full NMC. I dont know about Hall. Kane is the best american ever and only got a conditional first that ended up being a 2nd. Thats the bottom line. You have yet to give an answer to this questions. If florida wont give them anymore than that and he wont waive to go anywhere else what is Staios supposed to do?

Do you think he was lying? Dont you think he wants to maximize the return? OR do you think he wanted to get a terrible return? You arent using logic. You're emotionally upset about it. So is every sens fan I am sure but most are capable of understanding he cant make another team give him a better return.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You've reappeared and are celebrating like the Senators won the Stanley Cup. LOL.

And I see we have a few new user names today that are experts.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dick move was the wrong description, but he certainly did the Sens no favours and therefore the Sens refusing to deal him to his preferred destination would not be a "dick move" on their part.



None of them were traded in their prime or when they were at the top of their game, so your point is moot.

Tarasenko was once one of the best goal scorers in the league, but no team is paying for that player in 2023/24.

In 23/24 he has 41 points in 57 games.

Giroux had 42 points in 57 games when he was dealt
Kane had 45 points in 54 games (plus a nagging injury that eventually required surgery)
Hall had 2 goals and 19 points in 37 games

All similar quality players (with the exception of Hall who was struggling) as rentals.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable when I make the argument that there is absolutely no question we should have got more from Florida, even if Tarasenko demanded to go there and nowhere else.

These are not a relevant comparable to Tarasenko imo. Existing seasons or not, the difference in price paid is basically the difference in reputation and accomplishment and accompanying assets. Those are legendary type HOFer's with Kane being arguably the best US born player ever.

I would have liked to see some better conditions than a 4th to a 3rd if they win the cup, or a useful body coming back, but those conditional picks almost never seem to transfer anyways and most of the included names end up fodder, so I don't need the return inflated so Gord Wilson can claim we got 2 firsts and 2 prospects like the Duchene deal when really you're getting 1 actual asset.

 

[flyingfingers]

Giroux had 42 points in 57 games when he was dealt
Kane had 45 points in 54 games (plus a nagging injury that eventually required surgery)
Hall had 2 goals and 19 points in 37 games

All similar quality players (with the exception of Hall who was struggling) as rentals.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable when I make the argument that there is absolutely no question we should have got more from Florida, even if Tarasenko demanded to go there and nowhere else.

You're being unreasonable.

A player's value isn't just determined by what he did in the ~50 games before a trade, it's dictated by what GMs think he can provide to their team after the deal.

The year before the trade, Kane had put up 92 points. There was a reasonable belief among GMs that he could be a 1st line winger if he caught fire in the playoffs.

The same was true for Giroux. The Panthers were trading for a guy who was, without a doubt, going to be a top-six, if not a top-four forward for them.

Now, neither of those trades ended up working out. But both players had more value and higher expectations.

Tarasenko still had some pedigree last year, but there's a much more tempered view of him today.

Nobody believes he'll be anything more than a 15-minute-a-night, second-PP complimentary depth player on a contender, which is why the return was what it was.

 

[Sun God Nika]

It's a shitty return but the Sens did what they usually do & that is accomodate a payer who they believe has been a good soldier for the team this yr & took a loss for it IMO. Chychrun could be next in play, I doubt there will be any offers in on Kubalik or Brannstrom & both will be released at the end of the season & likely both end up back in Europe.

I think Branny will get a 1yr 1m deal somewhere and squeak out another 1 or 2 seasons

 

[Silencio]

Maybe Steve Staios traded Tarasenko for peanuts because he is planning to suit up for Ottawa as the “veteran player” they were looking for, just like when he was searching for a GM only to give himself the job.

 

[Hale The Villain]

You're really overrating Tarasenko. Listen to how non-Sens fans describe the player to get a more accurate gauge of what people think. I was watching TSN this afternoon, and the gist was "depth piece" and "complementary guy who can chip in on the 2nd PP unit."

Both Claude Giroux and Patrick Kane were in a different league when it came to value. Not only were they better players at the time, but their pedigree and status were significantly higher.

And Patrick Kane went for a 2nd + 4th, but he was traded alongside a 6'5 defenseman who was playing over 18 minutes a night. The 2nd could have turned into a 1st had the Rangers made the ECF, which didn't happen.

Tarasenko was a nice story here amidst another disaster of a season, but nobody else around the league sees him as a needle mover. His playoff performance with the Rangers last him quashed that reputation.

Without the NMC, he probably goes for a 2nd + 4th. That's what Wennberg went for, and he's a more versatile player who plays a more important position.

So a 3rd + 4th isn't the catastrophe you make it out to be.

I'm supposed to put stock into what TSN analysts think of Tarasenko?

Let's not play these stupid games. He's a 2nd line scorer that put up top 6 numbers for us despite playing a fair bit of the season at 3rd line RW and almost exclusively on PP2.

I didn't list the 4th that Kane returned because the 4th was likely for Mikkola. And yes I listed it as a conditional 1st for that very reason.

I'm not considering it a catastrophe he got a future 3rd and a 4th, but you're rationalizing this as if this wasn't a return universally viewed as god awful even given the circumstances.

Those situations arent this one. Thats the bottom line. You have yet to give an answer to this questions. If florida wont give them anymore than that and he wont waive to go anywhere else what is Staios supposed to do?

I've already said that he should have held onto Tarasenko and made it abundantly clear to Bill Zito that Tarasenko wouldn't be traded to a division rival for anything less than a 2nd, if not more.

If Zito plays hardball, so be it. Maybe he'd cave eventually since a 2025 2nd for Tarasenko is still a big win value-wise, but if it doesn't, oh well.

At that point you can tell Tarasenko they won't deal in good faith and tell him if he wants to win a cup he'll accept a trade to a different contender.

If he chooses to stay in Ottawa the rest of the year, so be it. Comes at a cost of a future 3rd and a 4th, but at that point you'll have made it not only clear to Bill Zito that you won't be taken advantage of, but the other 30 GMs in this league.

Burke did this at the 2014 deadline with Mike Cammalleri. He was getting dog**** offers for his player and he stuck to his guns and refused to trade him. Took the hit in the media and didn't get his team a pick, but I can guarantee you next deadline teams had that in the back of their mind when making offers.

If you want to talk about negotiation strategy, it's pretty damn important to establish yourself as someone who isn't going to settle for a crap offer, and in our situation with significantly more important trade negotiations coming up for Chychrun, it's even more important.