Blue Jays Discussion: Vladdy named ASG MVP. Draft Over. Now all that's left is the trade deadline

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hockeywiz542

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May 26, 2008
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Steve Phillips: Blue Jays look like buyers as trade deadline approaches - TSN.ca

The Blue Jays seem to be clear buyers at this point. It’s highly unlikely, but if they were to lose the next seven games while the Red Sox, Rays and Athletics all put together win streaks, it could change their perspective.

Toronto general manager Ross Atkins has already added a couple of quality relievers. It’s also helpful that the Jays’ needs are clear. Their offence is championship calibre but their starting pitching and bullpen are not.

Team president Mark Shapiro has said that the Jays’ focus is on impact players at this deadline. That should be music to Jays fans’ ears. Remember, it was Shapiro who was somewhat critical of former GM Alex Anthopoulos when he traded away a bunch of prospects in 2015 to acquire ace pitcher David Price and shortstop Troy Tulowitzki. Shapiro’s preference then was to hold onto the prospects. The Jays made great playoff runs in 2015 and 2016 and the deals paid dividends. Plus, none of the prospects traded away came back to haunt Toronto.

Unless my view of impact is different than Shapiro’s, it means the Jays are inquiring about a starter like Washington Nationals ace Max Scherzer (seeking a multi-year extension to waive his no-trade rights), a closer like Cubs reliever Craig Kimbrel (one year option for 2022), or a power bat like Texas Rangers outfielder Joey Gallo (one more year of arbitration).

Those are impact players. A contract extension for Scherzer, a future Hall of Famer, would be something like three years at $105 million, which is a lot for a 37-year-old veteran. But Scherzer is worth it. He’s a three-time Cy Young award winner who still has fuel in the tank. Kimbrel is the best closer available and is back on track in what could be a Hall of Fame career. Gallo likely doesn’t fit for the Jays unless they strikeout on pitchers and decide to add offence, hoping to outslug the opposition.

Jays will have to part with prospects

The Jays will have to part with prospect talent to get impact major-league help. They would likely have to part with at least one high-upside arm to land an ace. I would be willing to include Nate Pearson in that deal.

Pearson’s injuries worry me. He has a great arm but has lost significant development time due to being hurt. It will still take a couple of years for him to fulfill his potential considering he is being directed to the bullpen for the rest of this season.

If I include Pearson in a deal it means that I would not trade Simeon Woods Richardson, who is pitching in Double-A right now.
He was acquired in the Marcus Stroman deal with the Mets in in 2019. Scouts like him as much or more than Pearson, and he is younger.

I would also include Austin Martin, the Jays first-round pick from 2020, in a trade if it’s for a player the team can control beyond this season. Martin is a good player who can play multiple positions, but his lack of power in his first season is glaring. If I trade him in a big deal I would not include Double-A infielder Jordan Groshans or young Class-A shortstop Orelvis Martinez, who already has 17 home runs and 60 RBI playing in Dunedin.

The Jays have enough depth of talent in their farm system to make just about any deal they want. The question is whether they be willing to pay the price. They should, if the acquisitions come with controllability beyond 2021.
 

TGB

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Jun 7, 2021
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Interesting how Shapiro has found himself in the exact same position Anthopolous was in.

I would not trade Martin or Pearson. I'd rather trade SWR. Martin can play the outfield which is a place where we have little depth, and Pearson can potentially be a shutdown reliever which is something that is harder to get, and is more like gambling, then a reliable starter. SWR is still a few years away from being anything, although I'd rather not trade him.

I'd rather trade Groshans. Not because I have anything against him, but because infield is where we have TOO many prospects and there will be a bunch of top tier shortstops available next year.

They should have never gotten expansion teams they should have been giving to place like Nashville, Charlotte, Portland, Montreal, Buffalo who would come out and watch games

There's a website where you can see the MLB's report on their investigations into the viability of certain expansion locations. In the case of places like Nashville and Charlotte, they found something like only 3% of people they polled would actually watch a local MLB baseball game. The vast majority of people considered themselves Braves fans and would rather just watch them. There is also something about Nashville building a new soccer stadium or something (I'm going from memory here and it was awhile ago) and the mayor shutting down all possibility of supporting any new teams for a good long time. I think that city has a serious debt problem.

Montreal is by far and away the best candidate since they're a major metropolis, have funding and support and a location for a new stadium, and have other major supporting factors (ESPECIALLY if they join the AL East).
 

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,420
3,072
Steve Phillips: Blue Jays look like buyers as trade deadline approaches - TSN.ca

The Blue Jays seem to be clear buyers at this point. It’s highly unlikely, but if they were to lose the next seven games while the Red Sox, Rays and Athletics all put together win streaks, it could change their perspective.

Toronto general manager Ross Atkins has already added a couple of quality relievers. It’s also helpful that the Jays’ needs are clear. Their offence is championship calibre but their starting pitching and bullpen are not.

Team president Mark Shapiro has said that the Jays’ focus is on impact players at this deadline. That should be music to Jays fans’ ears. Remember, it was Shapiro who was somewhat critical of former GM Alex Anthopoulos when he traded away a bunch of prospects in 2015 to acquire ace pitcher David Price and shortstop Troy Tulowitzki. Shapiro’s preference then was to hold onto the prospects. The Jays made great playoff runs in 2015 and 2016 and the deals paid dividends. Plus, none of the prospects traded away came back to haunt Toronto.

Unless my view of impact is different than Shapiro’s, it means the Jays are inquiring about a starter like Washington Nationals ace Max Scherzer (seeking a multi-year extension to waive his no-trade rights), a closer like Cubs reliever Craig Kimbrel (one year option for 2022), or a power bat like Texas Rangers outfielder Joey Gallo (one more year of arbitration).

Those are impact players. A contract extension for Scherzer, a future Hall of Famer, would be something like three years at $105 million, which is a lot for a 37-year-old veteran. But Scherzer is worth it. He’s a three-time Cy Young award winner who still has fuel in the tank. Kimbrel is the best closer available and is back on track in what could be a Hall of Fame career. Gallo likely doesn’t fit for the Jays unless they strikeout on pitchers and decide to add offence, hoping to outslug the opposition.

Jays will have to part with prospects

The Jays will have to part with prospect talent to get impact major-league help. They would likely have to part with at least one high-upside arm to land an ace. I would be willing to include Nate Pearson in that deal.

Pearson’s injuries worry me. He has a great arm but has lost significant development time due to being hurt. It will still take a couple of years for him to fulfill his potential considering he is being directed to the bullpen for the rest of this season.

If I include Pearson in a deal it means that I would not trade Simeon Woods Richardson, who is pitching in Double-A right now.
He was acquired in the Marcus Stroman deal with the Mets in in 2019. Scouts like him as much or more than Pearson, and he is younger.

I would also include Austin Martin, the Jays first-round pick from 2020, in a trade if it’s for a player the team can control beyond this season. Martin is a good player who can play multiple positions, but his lack of power in his first season is glaring. If I trade him in a big deal I would not include Double-A infielder Jordan Groshans or young Class-A shortstop Orelvis Martinez, who already has 17 home runs and 60 RBI playing in Dunedin.

The Jays have enough depth of talent in their farm system to make just about any deal they want. The question is whether they be willing to pay the price. They should, if the acquisitions come with controllability beyond 2021.
Why the f would we include Martin in a trade and use his “glaring lack of power” as the reason in his first year as a pro? Pearson is a trade for Scherzer f no. That has Dickey mistake written all over it. I would include him as part of a package for a legit young front line starter/player. Not a 37 yr old scherzer. That’s insanity. Gallo makes no sense unless we are moving someone else out. Grichuk as part of the package sure
 

TGB

Registered User
Jun 7, 2021
757
259
No, don't trade Grichuk. Springer is too injury prone and we have absolutely no decent outfielder prospects or depth and that will likely remain true for the length of Grichuk's contract. Dickerson is still an unknown at this point. Pitching would be an add, sure, but losing Grichuk, and then Springer gets poked in the stomach, and suddenly we have a MASSIVE hole in the outfield.

Besides, they tried to trade Grichuk last year and it seems like nobody wants him all that much.

"It’s highly unlikely, but if they were to lose the next seven games while the Red Sox, Rays and Athletics all put together win streaks, it could change their perspective."

Why is that unlikely? The Jays have been smushed by the Red Sox and the Rays so far this season, both the Rays and the Athletics already have a big lead, and they're already down two games to the Red Sox in the current run of games.

I know people like to shout "2015!", heck, even I did at one point, but the Rays and A's weren't good teams that season. I say they should focus on addressing their long term weaknesses. If fixing the bullpen ends up being the fix they need, and by all account it SHOULD be, then great. If not, oh well, you're still built well for next year and you have all your prospects.
 
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hoglund

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Dec 8, 2013
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I can't wait until Tuesday the 30th, I'm going to the SkyDome to see a live baseball game. I tried to get tickets for Friday, but they were sold out in a half hour.
 
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as Pure as Evil

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Sep 18, 2011
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its a strange circumstance. i would say if we stumble all the way to the deadline we should just sell off some of the expiring contracts but, you really cant see that happening with the team returning home for the first time in 2 years. you have to think they will try and make a minimal splash just for that .

i do hope we use the bottom part of our top 40 prospects deal rather then the top 20
 
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TheMadHatTrick

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Nov 2, 2008
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Why the f would we include Martin in a trade and use his “glaring lack of power” as the reason in his first year as a pro? Pearson is a trade for Scherzer f no. That has Dickey mistake written all over it. I would include him as part of a package for a legit young front line starter/player. Not a 37 yr old scherzer. That’s insanity. Gallo makes no sense unless we are moving someone else out. Grichuk as part of the package sure
I'd trade Martin straight up to Miami for Pablo Lopez right now, but I doubt they would.
 

trellaine201

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Feb 10, 2010
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Left coast
I am at the point where the Jays should only trade for guys with control. They are a bit too far out and the Rays are an excellent team and for whatever reason, the Sox aren't cooling off.

Totally! Gonna be very tough for the WC. They will have to go on a huge run. Trade for players with at least one more year of control.
 
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ryno23

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Feb 5, 2010
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Not sure if depleting the farm or giving away high prospects for a run this year is worth it. I think there is something missing with this team. Obviously, the bullpen has lost them a bunch of games but I don't see this team making any kind of noise with Montoyo as the manager.

I keep going back to my cubs when they got rid of Renteria who is much like Montoyo good for in the clubhouse type of guy and easy-going but his baseball manager skills were questionable some days. Things changed for the Cubs when Maddon came in.

Jays probably need a better manager to take them to the next level and then see where they are at that time. Maybe in the off season you part with a high-end prospect for a top-flight controllable SP but other than that see what the kids bring as now Vlad, Bichette and TEO will have a few years of experience under their belt
 
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dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
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No, don't trade Grichuk. Springer is too injury prone and we have absolutely no decent outfielder prospects or depth and that will likely remain true for the length of Grichuk's contract. Dickerson is still an unknown at this point. Pitching would be an add, sure, but losing Grichuk, and then Springer gets poked in the stomach, and suddenly we have a MASSIVE hole in the outfield.

Besides, they tried to trade Grichuk last year and it seems like nobody wants him all that much.

"It’s highly unlikely, but if they were to lose the next seven games while the Red Sox, Rays and Athletics all put together win streaks, it could change their perspective."

Why is that unlikely? The Jays have been smushed by the Red Sox and the Rays so far this season, both the Rays and the Athletics already have a big lead, and they're already down two games to the Red Sox in the current run of games.

I know people like to shout "2015!", heck, even I did at one point, but the Rays and A's weren't good teams that season. I say they should focus on addressing their long term weaknesses. If fixing the bullpen ends up being the fix they need, and by all account it SHOULD be, then great. If not, oh well, you're still built well for next year and you have all your prospects.
You realize I mentioned Grichuk in a scenario where we add another outfielder. I didn’t say trade him for the sake of it. In saying that I really don’t have much issue if they did decide to go that route
 

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,420
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Not sure if depleting the farm or giving away high prospects for a run this year is worth it. I think there is something missing with this team. Obviously, the bullpen has lost them a bunch of games but I don't see this team making any kind of noise with Montoyo as the manager.

I keep going back to my cubs when they got rid of Renteria who is much like Montoyo good for in the clubhouse type of guy and easy-going but his baseball manager skills were questionable some days. Things changed for the Cubs when Maddon came in.

Jays probably need a better manager to take them to the next level and then see where they are at that time. Maybe in the off season you part with a high-end prospect for a top-flight controllable SP but other than that see what the kids bring as now Vlad, Bichette and TEO will have a few years of experience under their belt
It’s almost better to miss the post season this year in the hopes they use that as reasoning to fire montoyo
 

ryno23

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Feb 5, 2010
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It’s almost better to miss the post season this year in the hopes they use that as reasoning to fire montoyo
That is my exact thought as well. Especially if Montoyo keeps Montoying the jays with his stupid decisions.
 

jetsforever

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Dec 14, 2013
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I can't wait until Tuesday the 30th, I'm going to the SkyDome to see a live baseball game. I tried to get tickets for Friday, but they were sold out in a half hour.

I happen to be in NYC so I'll try to go tomorrow to get a preview, been a while since a live Jays game
 
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