Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - Signed 2-Year Deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk

[MarkMM]

The thing about Kravtsov is he was brought here by the new management team. That means, to many on here, that he is automatically better than anyone brought in by Benning.
However , if you pretend that Vitali was a Benning decision, it looks like another 'meh' outcome.
This is also true of how, many, look at the other 'meh' guys.
Joshua?- whatever
Aman- same thing.
Studnicka- ditto
Scrub replacement level players are just that- no matter who signed them.

the guys JB signed

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replacement level players, are replacement level players- no matter who signed them.
Aman is getting $883,750 this year-
Many JB signings were for about that or less. some hits, lots of misses; which happens with replacement level players.

It's making things up to say that Benning was bashed for all his trades; he was rightly bashed for his numerous idiotic trades.

But people liked it when he paid a small price to acquire a useful if unspectacular player, I think he generally got credit for the Motte, Highmore, Chaisson, etc.

Trying to conflate that with "but people bash Benning" because Benning goes after Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel and pays a 2nd for the likes of Vey is nonsensical.

pdo has nothing to do with c%, f%, s% or xg% and aman is team worst or nearly so (beaten only by studnicka and boeser in xg%). joshua isn't much better. aman has tough deployment but joshua doesn't really

i don't think aman is the worst forward on the roster but he's pretty close. joshua only looks as good as he does because vancouver have played so many awful players in their bottom six this year and he's probably an everyday nhler at least



sure. i'm not comparing the current crop of "pro scouting finds" to benning's though. i'm just pointing out that people just assume aman or joshua are good because the pro scouting is good but then the evidence the pro scouting is good is that aman and joshua are good

Just making things up now. People like Aman because he's a pleasant surprise, a flyer on a guy most didn't think would turn into something and yet he holds his own, enough that he displaced the $1M / 3 year Lazar.

And Joshua brings toughness while holding his own in actual hockey, which is valuable to have.

They get valued because they have value, not making something up to justify saying things about the scouting.

You’re weighting the recency over the whole as per usual.

Look I don’t mind those two guys (I liked Pedersen too) but the idea they’ve been crazy effective is just narrative.

They’re miles better than Studnicka that’s for sure.


Just checked over the recent sample….the numbers are similar to the whole. Both in Beagle GF% range.

Right, and how much did Beagle cost, both in terms of salary and what it took to get rid of him? THAT is the comparison with Benning that makes people appreciative of the improvement with current management (which admittedly anything other than Benning would be a low bar to beat).

 

[MS]

Right, and how much did Beagle cost, both in terms of salary and what it took to get rid of him? THAT is the comparison with Benning that makes people appreciative of the improvement with current management (which admittedly anything other than Benning would be a low bar to beat).

Absolutely. Beagle didn't 'suck' and if he was signed to a 2 year deal with, like, a $1.2 million AAV to be the 4th line C that would have worked out just fine and he would have been an OK #4C/good PK guy with an appropriate cap hit.

The problem was that they gave him a $3 million AAV for way too long and that contracts like this ended up costing the team Tanev/Toffoli.

 

[strattonius]

Lol my God now the acquisitions of Aman and Joshua resembles Benning's moves.

The lengths some of you go to to try and prove your lousy point is endless.

 

[4Twenty]

@MarkMM I’m not talking about cost I’m talking about quality. They’re performing at Beagle level 5 on 5 in terms of goals for%

That was the purpose of naming Beagle. The numbers are worse than guys like Lamikko and Highmore last season too.

Yes it’s great they’re on buriable short term deals. That’s not the point I was addressing. Just solely performance. And beagle was a bad 4th line player here (ok PKer though).

Lol my God now the acquisitions of Aman and Joshua resembles Benning's moves.

The lengths some of you go to to try and prove your lousy point is endless.

Lol more like the lengths folks will go to make new regime moves look good but to each their own.

 

[Gurn]

UFA's signed by Benning:

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guys for under $1 mill
Fantenberg
Schenn
Biega
Burroughs
Chaissson
Philip ' the pizza man'
Dries
Guys between $1 mill and $2 mill
Vanek
Benn
Schaller
Bartowski
Weber
Hamonic
Poulliot
honourable mention to B Sutter- @$1,125,000- would have looked good except for covid.

All, except Sutter played games for this team.

Hit on a few, miss on a bunch. That's how it goes at the bargain bin.

 

[strattonius]

Lol more like the lengths folks will go to make new regime moves look good but to each their own.

They're not the same no matter how hard you try.

This regime isn't tying up big dollars on bottom 6 fwds. And this group isn't plunging all their dollars in free agency. They've made more targeted acquisitions and collected smarter contracts. If you can't see the difference you're dumb.

 

[EdJovanovski]

As someone as familiar with Krav as anybody, he is currently WAY out of game shape and this is not the player he usually is. He sat most of the year and the Rangers have probably the lowest intensity practises in the entire league, they just skate around and pass, take some shots, etc. They don't do intense drills, hell, from what I've seen the Canucks game day skates look more intense than Rangers practises. You'll notice Krav is practically always the first guy off the ice for every line change. He has all the tools in the world but right now he gets gassed half way through each shift, I think he's also a very late bloomer physically speaking. Give him a rigorous offseason training regimen and expect an entirely different player coming into camp next year.

And please, try him at center

 

[Breakers]

pretty meh.... player.

at the cost, it seemed like a decent gamble

 

[iceburg]

Man, I so want to turn the page on Benning and move on but the hangover is going to last years. Maybe a restructuring and name change is necessary so nothing else in the organization looks like the previous 8 years. A complete and total rebranding. We can pretend they're an expansion team needing to go through a few growing pains (like waiting out the OEL contract) to get competitive...

 

[VanJack]

Apparently Kravstov was a center for the Russian World Jr. team in the WJHC and in most of the other international tournaments he played in.

I'd really like to see him get a shot in the middle for the Canucks before the season winds down. Nothing against Dries in the middle, but seems to me that Kravstov is worthwhile experimenting with to see if there's anything there.

With the Canucks in desperate for center depth in the organization, anybody with any potential at center should be given a look at least, when the games don't mean a heck of a lot.

 

[credulous]

Just making things up now. People like Aman because he's a pleasant surprise, a flyer on a guy most didn't think would turn into something and yet he holds his own, enough that he displaced the $1M / 3 year Lazar.

And Joshua brings toughness while holding his own in actual hockey, which is valuable to have.

They get valued because they have value, not making something up to justify saying things about the scouting.

it's fine to like aman and joshua. i like joshua. doesn't change the fact the canucks have probably the worst 4th line in the league this year

 

[VanJack]

Kravstov with probably his best game as a Canuck tonight, but again came up snake-eyes in front of the net. He was a force on the forecheck, and should have at least two goals on the night.

Tocchet even juggled the lines to get Petey out there with Kravstov and Podkolzin. But they need a better center than Dries.

 

[IslandBeast]

Kravstov has impressed me more than Podkolzin since he has joined the team but as a poster above mentioned, an upgraded 3c would help them both.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Created dangerous scoring chances nearly every time he stepped on the ice last night, very snake bitten. Also very out of shape right now from sitting all year and the only ice time he got was low intensity Ranger practises where he skates as an extra. Canucks game day skates are more intense than rangers practises. He has the skill to dangle around 3 guys and go to the net like a Petey but he’s too tired that once he gets the opportunity he dumps it and goes for a change.

 

[Raistlin]

Created dangerous scoring chances nearly every time he stepped on the ice last night, very snake bitten. Also very out of shape right now from sitting all year and the only ice time he got was low intensity Ranger practises where he skates as an extra. Canucks game day skates are more intense than rangers practises. He has the skill to dangle around 3 guys and go to the net like a Petey but he’s too tired that once he gets the opportunity he dumps it and goes for a change.

one off season made a heck of a difference to EP, last season, he was still falling down every time someone nudges him.

So in your opinion Ed, charting his career since Chelyabinsk, is it likely that he will sign a one year prove me deal? or just fly back and forget N.America? I think it really all rests on this summer for him, he is not physically ready as you say, the rangers posters say he has no work ethic when it comes to off season training, that worries me because he was hurt a lot early in the year, and strength has been an issue for him so far in his D+4. I do still remember seeing him and Francouz dominate that playoffs, but his mismanagement in the intervening years had taken a toll on him for sure now that I see him up close.

 

[VanJack]

Getting a prospect like Kravstov for a journeyman forward like Will Lockwood and a seventh rounder, is like 'found money' for the Canucks.

Even in the unlikely event that he does a complete face-plant in Vancouver, he's still a former top10 draft pick and worth the role of the dice. You can see the talent is there--the Canucks just have to find a way to get it out of him night after night.

Unfortunately for him, the Rangers are in a 'win-now' mode, and couldn't wait for him. And they needed to clear cap space to add some other guys at the TDL. They also probably thought Kravstov might return to the KHL at the end of the season anyway.

These are the kind of acquisitions that are hard to argue with. If this was two years ago, Benning would have blown a second-rounder at least to acquire a guy like Kravstov.

 

[EdJovanovski]

one off season made a heck of a difference to EP, last season, he was still falling down every time someone nudges him.

So in your opinion Ed, charting his career since Chelyabinsk, is it likely that he will sign a one year prove me deal? or just fly back and forget N.America? I think it really all rests on this summer for him, he is not physically ready as you say, the rangers posters say he has no work ethic when it comes to off season training, that worries me because he was hurt a lot early in the year, and strength has been an issue for him so far in his D+4. I do still remember seeing him and Francouz dominate that playoffs, but his mismanagement in the intervening years had taken a toll on him for sure now that I see him up close.

Pettersson has long been my player comparable for Krav (other than Gretzky ofc) but they play very similarly and even have similar builds.

I don’t think it’s likely that he returns to Russia at all, he wants to play in the NHL. He has made the effort to learn English better than most players and has always came early and spent large amount of each summer in North America. However some Russians may fear the military conflict going back home, that wouldn’t be a worry of Kravtsov’s as he comes from a powerful & wealthy family in Russia. The only way I see him returning to Russia is if he isn’t offered an NHL contract.

Because of who his dad is, his dad is banned from the US. So Krav might have a preference for staying in Canada as his dad is allowed to see his games, Kravs sister was living & working in Calgary. Kravs sister married a St Louis Blue though so he might be like playing there too. He’s also close with Kuznetsov who was his idol, so I could see him liking Washington too. Vancouver does have a logjam of wingers so I do wonder if Krav doesn’t feel he has as much opportunity here as he would on some other teams though. But my best guess would be he re-signs with Vancouver.

Edit: about work ethic, Krav was waking up at 5AM every morning to work out in the gym while on vacation in the DR & Dubai. It’s just common for them to train differently in Russia than North America though, a lot of Russians come here lacking physical strength. Buchnevich had similar issues to Krav when he first came over, kept injuring his back because of a lack of core strength. I don’t think the lack of fitness is due to a lack of work ethic, I think it’s because he hasn’t been playing all year. Usually his stamina is fine. Lack of strength is because of Russian training and physically he’s not as developed as most his age. It’s a common issue amongst Ranger players to be in bad shape though. They don’t seem very hands on with player development or training.

 

[nyr2k2]

You really over here shitting all over the Rangers because the guy whose nuts you've been dangling from for several years has flopped, Ed? Come on, man.

None of what you all are seeing with Kravtsov is new. Every time the kid was back in the KHL, I'd always comment, "wow, other than being committed more defensively, he looks exactly the same as he did last year!" I also had this guy pegged as a 30-40 point upside player because he's just not that dynamic in terms of his vision and creativity. He can dangle and make the occasional great pass, but so can most of the third line forwards in the league. The Kravtsov we as Rangers fans saw this year was the same guy we saw when he debuted, to a tee.

Amusingly, several years ago, back when Kravtsov first peaced out back to the motherland, there was this weird story that came out about how he was upset because the organization criticized him that his heart rate wasn't high enough during training--or at least that's how it was stated in translated interviews. And almost everyone in Rangers Land absolutely KILLED the team, taking about how crazy it was that we would use something so arbitrary to criticize this f***ing stud and ruin his confidence. Turns out, guy is a goddamn cream puff and apparently can't/won't train for shit, and the Rangers had identified that long ago.

I hope Kravtsov works out for you guys. I do. I think he's an entitled, immature brat, but he doesn't seem like a "bad" guy in any objective sense, so I hold no grudges. Please understand however that EdJo has literally been obsessed with this player for years, and has staked his entire player assessment reputation on the outlandish claims he has made about this guy. Stuff that started off as legitimately absurd but sincere praise, that got so ridiculous it jumped the shark and even Ed had to turn it into a game because otherwise no one would respond to him seriously. If you want the inside scoop on Kravy from people who have watched him for years, and who don't feel being right about him is some life or death proposition, feel free to come ask on the Rangers board.

Apologies for the unsolicited post. I just saw Mrs. Kravtsov in here and, once I picked myself up off the floor and regained consciousness after laughing for 20 consecutive minutes, I thought I'd chime in.

EDIT: It might actually be tricky to ask on the NYR board, because our Kravtsov thread got locked. Because of Ed turning it into a Tribute Thread.

 

[Peen]

Imma be honest I do not think Kravtsov is an NHL player

Obviously deserves to be given the summer and a training camp before being truly evaluated, but unless we see "wow, kravtsov looks fantastic. stronger on the puck, plays with direction" reports in training camp, he's probably not making the team next year.

 

[TomWillander1RD]

The fact that we have 7 pages of discussion on this player (and going strong) makes the trade a win in my book. I don't think any 7th round pick would've garnered this much interest.

 

[Raistlin]

Pettersson has long been my player comparable for Krav (other than Gretzky ofc) but they play very similarly and even have similar builds.

I don’t think it’s likely that he returns to Russia at all, he wants to play in the NHL. He has made the effort to learn English better than most players and has always came early and spent large amount of each summer in North America. However some Russians may fear the military conflict going back home, that wouldn’t be a worry of Kravtsov’s as he comes from a powerful & wealthy family in Russia. The only way I see him returning to Russia is if he isn’t offered an NHL contract.

Because of who his dad is, his dad is banned from the US. So Krav might have a preference for staying in Canada as his dad is allowed to see his games, Kravs sister was living & working in Calgary. Kravs sister married a St Louis Blue though so he might be like playing there too. He’s also close with Kuznetsov who was his idol, so I could see him liking Washington too. Vancouver does have a logjam of wingers so I do wonder if Krav doesn’t feel he has as much opportunity here as he would on some other teams though. But my best guess would be he re-signs with Vancouver.

Edit: about work ethic, Krav was waking up at 5AM every morning to work out in the gym while on vacation in the DR & Dubai. It’s just common for them to train differently in Russia than North America though, a lot of Russians come here lacking physical strength. Buchnevich had similar issues to Krav when he first came over, kept injuring his back because of a lack of core strength. I don’t think the lack of fitness is due to a lack of work ethic, I think it’s because he hasn’t been playing all year. Usually his stamina is fine. Lack of strength is because of Russian training and physically he’s not as developed as most his age. It’s a common issue amongst Ranger players to be in bad shape though. They don’t seem very hands on with player development or training.

Appreciate the detailed response. I know he is rich, didn't know his dad is powerful too... Enough to get sanctioned. Anyways, if management did their homework, maybe they know they can slowplay him for at least one more year without worrying about risk of losing him for nothing.

Ball is on his court, get strong, build endurance. The history of our owner tells me he really want to use kids like him as a shortcut back to respectability. Shortcuts are the M.O. of this operation lol. Maybe they will offer him a spot next year outright? Chris Gear said they don't do that before, but insinuated that this regime may.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

It isnt the Rangers practices, its the player.

He needs to hit the weight room and then some.

Hes got talent, no question. The work ethic, off the ice - needs to improve.

 

[EdJovanovski]

It isnt the Rangers practices, its the player.

He needs to hit the weight room and then some.

Hes got talent, no question. The work ethic, off the ice - needs to improve.

Yea I wasn’t saying that in regard to strength issues, I’m saying in regard to his stamina. He’s sat most of the year so he’s not settled in and up to game speed, especially when our practises are lower intensity than most and even then he’s skating as an extra

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

As I noted elsewhere a few days ago, Kravtsov is probably playing out of position and was a top CENTRE as a junior at both the U20 Four Nations and WJC, but the insanely talented development department of both the Rangers and the Canucks have, more or less, exclusively play(ed) him as a winger. Maybe, just maybe, they should try him at a position he thrived at late in his development and see if he excels. What have they got to lose; a dented ego in their coaching staff or development department?

Kravtsov, " played center for the Russians at the U20 Four Nations tournament this past November in Honodin, CZE. Kravtsov also has experience at the center position in the MHL, where he was used as a center out of necessity, as well as his skill allowing him to be more involved in the play as a center. Kravtsov also played as a center at the WJC earlier this year, recording six points (2G, 4A) in seven games as his unique playmaking ability and high hockey IQ allowed him to acclimate to playing an unfamiliar position and succeeding. "

Kravtsov or Chytil as the Rangers 2nd line center


The Universe is knocking, but the Canucks coaching staff are all out to lunch.

 

[Diversification]

As I noted elsewhere a few days ago, Kravtsov is probably playing out of position and was a top CENTRE as a junior at both the U20 Four Nations and WJC, but the insanely talented development department of both the Rangers and the Canucks have, more or less, exclusively play(ed) him as a winger. Maybe, just maybe, they should try him at a position he thrived at late in his development and see if he excels. What have they got to lose; a dented ego in their coaching staff or development department?

Kravtsov, " played center for the Russians at the U20 Four Nations tournament this past November in Honodin, CZE. Kravtsov also has experience at the center position in the MHL, where he was used as a center out of necessity, as well as his skill allowing him to be more involved in the play as a center. Kravtsov also played as a center at the WJC earlier this year, recording six points (2G, 4A) in seven games as his unique playmaking ability and high hockey IQ allowed him to acclimate to playing an unfamiliar position and succeeding. "

Kravtsov or Chytil as the Rangers 2nd line center


The Universe is knocking, but the Canucks coaching staff are all out to lunch.

This is a young player who appears to be just keeping his head above water playing in a less demanding winger position, while not accomplishing much offensively. So naturally, that is the universe's way of telling us he should be deployed in a position he hasn't played in years.