Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - Signed 2-Year Deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk

[MS]

"Fair" usage is for a team in a playoff hunt. this team is not. Its in full evaluation mode now with 13 games to go. Do you agree? If Im Allvin, if Im Tocchet, I dont give a hoot about fair this year, I want an asset next year when I'm not playing a mushy soft schedule, thats all I freakin want.

If you don't there is nothing to argue about, you aim to run the table and make the playoffs, continue with your fair usage and run Kravtsov out of town. He is an extreme flight risk. Congrats you lost Lockwood and a 7th for nothing, Drury fleeced us. Please do not ever mention rehabbing age gap players who were under utilized in deep teams if you are going to let your coach squander a prime magic bean like this one.

If you do agree to the top statement, then the issue becomes should you give him more than a fair chance for him to prove himself? for management to see what kinda of asset he represents? The way you break a rookie in by giving him extremely sheltered minutes.

In his case, the M.O. is to build his confidence back up. play him in important situations, play him even if he makes mistakes, even when he does not compete as much as you wanted each shift, thats how the twins were given the endless opportunities, and, they were hammered on these same boards, until they emerged finally post WCE days. Communicate to your leaders on the team that we want him and Pod to succeed, to do that, Toc needs to scale back your minutes to something more reasonable. if they are team players, they will agree. or guess what? Have EP center them, he wants to be a leader? Guide these kids.

This is how you build something. You dont look at winning tomorrow, you are building a depressed asset up. Even management want Kravtsov to contribute to next year's success right???? Playing him "fairly" only provide you wins in these 13 games???? Is that the payoff? I cannot fathom the fans on board with this ridiculous short term thinking. FA thinks like that because he actually benefit from season ticket sales for next year, do you guys?

They are trying to build a culture and a meritocracy here that has been lacking for a decade. That's far more important than whether this one free fringe player succeeds or not.

Kravtsov is getting a fair look. He's getting a regular shift and regular PP minutes. It's the sort of usage where he has the opportunity to succeed and if he can't compete and battle in 12 minutes he isn't going to compete and battle in 15 minutes either.

Lockwood is a UFA in June and a 7th round pick is worthless. He was essentially a waiver claim. We have nothing invested in this player and it's a free hit to see if he can find something here.

 

[Raistlin]

They are trying to build a culture and a meritocracy here that has been lacking for a decade. That's far more important than whether this one free fringe player succeeds or not.

Kravtsov is getting a fair look. He's getting a regular shift and regular PP minutes. It's the sort of usage where he has the opportunity to succeed and if he can't compete and battle in 12 minutes he isn't going to compete and battle in 15 minutes either.

Lockwood is a UFA in June and a 7th round pick is worthless. He was essentially a waiver claim. We have nothing invested in this player and it's a free hit to see if he can find something here.

No, I disagree, there is nothing to discuss here. You do not agree with the basic premise of my argument where sound asset management is more important than the success of these next 13 games.

 

[DonnyNucker]

They are trying to build a culture and a meritocracy here that has been lacking for a decade. That's far more important than whether this one free fringe player succeeds or not.

Kravtsov is getting a fair look. He's getting a regular shift and regular PP minutes. It's the sort of usage where he has the opportunity to succeed and if he can't compete and battle in 12 minutes he isn't going to compete and battle in 15 minutes either.

Lockwood is a UFA in June and a 7th round pick is worthless. He was essentially a waiver claim. We have nothing invested in this player and it's a free hit to see if he can find something here.

Well said. The Kravtsov usage is the most bizarre thing being debated right now. I f he can’t show something in 12 minutes of ice time then goodbye and good luck in Russia. As you said, absolutely nothing invested in this player and this might be his last shot to show he belongs. Put up or shut up.

The things people bitch about lol

 

[Jyrki]

"Fair" usage is for a team in a playoff hunt. this team is not. Its in full evaluation mode now with 13 games to go. Do you agree? If Im Allvin, if Im Tocchet, I dont give a hoot about fair this year, I want an asset next year when I'm not playing a mushy soft schedule, thats all I freakin want.

If you don't there is nothing to argue about, you aim to run the table and make the playoffs, continue with your fair usage and run Kravtsov out of town. He is an extreme flight risk. Congrats you lost Lockwood and a 7th for nothing, Drury fleeced us. Please do not ever mention rehabbing age gap players who were under utilized in deep teams if you are going to let your coach squander a prime magic bean like this one.

If you do agree to the top statement, then the issue becomes should you give him more than a fair chance for him to prove himself? for management to see what kinda of asset he represents? The way you break a rookie in by giving him extremely sheltered minutes.

In his case, the M.O. is to build his confidence back up. play him in important situations, play him even if he makes mistakes, even when he does not compete as much as you wanted each shift, thats how the twins were given the endless opportunities, and, they were hammered on these same boards, until they emerged finally post WCE days. Communicate to your leaders on the team that we want him and Pod to succeed, to do that, Toc needs to scale back your minutes to something more reasonable. if they are team players, they will agree. or guess what? Have EP center them, he wants to be a leader? Guide these kids.

This is how you build something. You dont look at winning tomorrow, you are building a depressed asset up. Even management want Kravtsov to contribute to next year's success right???? Playing him "fairly" only provide you wins in these 13 games???? Is that the payoff? I cannot fathom the fans on board with this ridiculous short term thinking. FA thinks like that because he actually benefit from season ticket sales for next year, do you guys?

Hoglander and Podz average about 12 minutes/game. Kravtsov has been getting just under 11 and actually had 12 last game.

The former two, we know they're already fighting for their NHL lives. Then there's Dries, Aman, Joshua, Studnicka, Giuseppe... some of these guys are almost 30, but Aman and Studnicka are Kravtsov's age.

Point being, there's a lot of competition for ice time already and we can easily argue Kravtsov has shown less than most of them. Still, he's consistently getting at least 10 minutes per night and some 2nd PP unit looks despite the crowded field.

While there's something to be said about Tocchet riding Petey/Miller/Kuz hard, I don't see how Krav deserves better looks than he's got right now given the TOI other bottom 6 forwards need to get.

I don't get the "asset management" angle at all. He was traded for a journeyman and a 7th round pick and that's the level of play he's shown so far. What exactly is the expected ROI from depriving other players of TOI so that Kravstov can get it instead?

 

[MS]

No, I disagree, there is nothing to discuss here. You do not agree with the basic premise of my argument where sound asset management is more important than the success of these next 13 games.

This team has 10 years of organizational rot in terms of culture - no leadership, no accountability, no standards, just a total backward country club.

It's a year later than it should have been after the Boudreau dead-end, but they're *finally* trying to fix that and create a meritocracy, create standards, get players playing a consistent system.

And that's infinitely more important than 'asset management' of this sort of low-probability waiver-level asset.

 

[Raistlin]

Hoglander and Podz average about 12 minutes/game. Kravtsov has been getting just under 11 and actually had 12 last game.

The former two, we know they're already fighting for their NHL lives. Then there's Dries, Aman, Joshua, Studnicka, Giuseppe... some of these guys are almost 30, but Aman and Studnicka are Kravtsov's age.

Point being, there's a lot of competition for ice time already and we can easily argue Kravtsov has shown less than most of them. Still, he's consistently getting at least 10 minutes per night and some 2nd PP unit looks despite the crowded field.

While there's something to be said about Tocchet riding Petey/Miller/Kuz hard, I don't see how Krav deserves better looks than he's got right now given the TOI other bottom 6 forwards need to get.

I don't get the "asset management" angle at all. He was traded for a journeyman and a 7th round pick and that's the level of play he's shown so far. What exactly is the expected ROI from depriving other players of TOI so that Kravstov can get it instead?

my argument is that they want to target players that were underutilized in other organizations within a certain age bracket. Kravtsov in my opinion is a prime target with high enough upside that can really help you in the short term. The exact reason Allvin brought him in. Simply put, I believe in his talent, the ROI is his talent playing for Vancouver instead of Traktor.

 

[credulous]

kravtsov doesn't need any more opportunity. like @MS pointed out, he's gotten plenty here. getting an extra 3-4 minutes a game isn't going to change how he plays. and if this is how he plays then they should move on from the player. even if he breaks out eventually it wasn't like vancouver didn't give him a shot

 

[Raistlin]

This team has 10 years of organizational rot in terms of culture - no leadership, no accountability, no standards, just a total backward country club.

It's a year later than it should have been after the Boudreau dead-end, but they're *finally* trying to fix that and create a meritocracy, create standards, get players playing a consistent system.

And that's infinitely more important than 'asset management' of this sort of low-probability waiver-level asset.

Willie and his meritocracy sure got us far.

 

[ohnoeszz]

If he weren't 6'5" no one would care about this player. He has a long way to go in learning to apply himself to the game. He has far too much wasted time in his game right now.

The individual stick skills, or shot or even puck battle are all there but his skills are not connected. He sees the simple plays naturally but doesn't show a real high end vision as he often ends up the victim of faster acting opposition.

You hope he can be a player because of his size but there is a long way to go and he hasn't been amenable to working at things in the NHL. I doubt he's up to where we want to be by next year.

 

[MS]

Willie and his meritocracy sure got us far.

Willie absolutely did not have a meritocracy. Furthest thing from it.

And there are only so many roster spots here.

Right now they're trying to rebuild Beauvillier as an asset on the first line - an actual NHL player with a track record - and he's buying in and doing all the right things and performing. Dumping him off that line for Kravtsov would be idiotic.

They also have Di Giuseppe on the 2nd line right now because he's come up, bought in, and absolutely worked his ass off and performed and deserves a chance at top-9 minutes.

Then you have the Joshua-Aman line which is a physical defensive line and not really a fit at all for Kravtsov.

I mean, maybe you could have him in Di Giuseppe's spot. And if he or Podkolzin have a run of 3-4 really good games, I'm sure one of them would end up there. But it isn't going to be handed to them and they have to earn it, and that's totally fair. And as long as Di Giuseppe is outworking and outplaying them, I have zero issues with continuing to play him there.

And Podkolzin is a far more important asset to this team who has show substantially more at the NHL level and is 2 years younger, and if we're talking about a guy who should be getting a bigger look up the roster it's him and not Kravtsov.

 

[Raistlin]

Willie absolutely did not have a meritocracy. Furthest thing from it.

And there are only so many roster spots here.

Right now they're trying to rebuild Beauvillier as an asset on the first line - an actual NHL player with a track record - and he's buying in and doing all the right things and performing. Dumping him off that line for Kravtsov would be idiotic.

They also have Di Giuseppe on the 2nd line right now because he's come up, bought in, and absolutely worked his ass off and performed and deserves a chance at top-9 minutes.

Then you have the Joshua-Aman line which is a physical defensive line and not really a fit at all for Kravtsov.

I mean, maybe you could have him in Di Giuseppe's spot. And if he or Podkolzin have a run of 3-4 really good games, I'm sure one of them would end up there. But it isn't going to be handed to them and they have to earn it, and that's totally fair. And as long as Di Giuseppe is outworking and outplaying them, I have zero issues with continuing to play him there.

And Podkolzin is a far more important asset to this team who has show substantially more at the NHL level and is 2 years younger, and if we're talking about a guy who should be getting a bigger look up the roster it's him and not Kravtsov.

I agree, if we are talking about next year I will 100% prioritize Podkolzin ahead of anyone else. As most said, we have more invested in him. But for these next 13 games, which to me is equivalent to preseason games against such base competition, I want to find out for sure if there is something to be mined here.

 

[VanJack]

Has Kravstov really been that bad? That line with Podkolzin and Dries has been very effective from my limited viewing.

Seems to me that Kravstov is getting two or three great chances every night--but is snake-bitten at the moment. But a couple of games back, both Podkolzing and Kravstov got shifts in OT.

But beyond offense, I've actually been impressed with his defensive awareness. He's certainly not a liability in his own zone, which will endear him to Tocchet going forward.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

One thing I noticed last night is that he has a big league wrist shot..He should utilize it more often.

 

[m9]

If he weren't 6'5" no one would care about this player. He has a long way to go in learning to apply himself to the game. He has far too much wasted time in his game right now.

The individual stick skills, or shot or even puck battle are all there but his skills are not connected. He sees the simple plays naturally but doesn't show a real high end vision as he often ends up the victim of faster acting opposition.

You hope he can be a player because of his size but there is a long way to go and he hasn't been amenable to working at things in the NHL. I doubt he's up to where we want to be by next year.

Not about his size, more about his draft pedigree. That's the only reason people care.

Sometimes you get what you pay for and he seems destined for the KHL.

 

[calnuck]

Willie and his meritocracy sure got us far.

Willie “roll lines 1-2-3-4” desjardins had a meritocracy?

 

[MS]

Has Kravstov really been that bad? That line with Podkolzin and Dries has been very effective from my limited viewing.

Seems to me that Kravstov is getting two or three great chances every night--but is snake-bitten at the moment. But a couple of games back, both Podkolzing and Kravstov got shifts in OT.

But beyond offense, I've actually been impressed with his defensive awareness. He's certainly not a liability in his own zone, which will endear him to Tocchet going forward.

I don't think he's been 'that bad', just very meh.

He's been responsible enough defensively but there have been 2 games out of 9 where a neutral watcher would have even noticed he was in the lineup. As I said above, he's been responsible and working diligently enough away from the play, but generally just very timid and on the fringes of things.

 

[Raistlin]

Willie “roll lines 1-2-3-4” desjardins had a meritocracy?

Socialist meritocracy that would make Marx proud.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I wanted to see what you guys thought of Kravs and I have to laugh because this discussion is practically the same we had for 100+ pages over on the Rangers board. He's a top 10 pick with debatable talent who does practically nothing with his ice time. That is why he was traded for peanuts. Don't expect too much from him. He's the definition of meh. He played in about 20 games for us this year and looked exactly the same as he did when he got 20 games in his 20-21 rookie season. His game hasn't developed one bit. He will most likely end up back in the KHL in a year or 2.

 

[Zarpan]

Not about his size, more about his draft pedigree. That's the only reason people care.

Sometimes you get what you pay for and he seems destined for the KHL.

Yep, if he was a mid-to-late 2nd round pick instead, he would be thought of more like Studnicka.

 

[iceburg]

Interesting discussion about meritocracy.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I think a lot more patience has to be shown with Kravtsov...Reclamation projects usually don't work, even with players picked in the top 10 of the draft...I 'd put the bust rate at around 85%..We've had a few in the last decade, namely Baertschi (who somewhat worked out, he produced at a level of a 2nd round pick), and Poulliot (who didnt)...I didn't mind either of these trades at the time..It's certainly a a gamble.

Hopefully, a change of scenery becomes the tonic for Kravtsov ..much like it did for Sam Bennett in Florida.

 

[Coffee]

He’s fast, quicker than he looks out there. And maybe he gains confidence with his wrister.
I do not think he will be a top 6, but I think he can turn into a bottom 6 if he’s up for it.

Seems like a good kid, I hope he proves me wrong and lights the league up

 

[Cancuks]

Kravtsov and Podkolzin are going to be late bloomers like Nichushkin. I don't think they'll break out until 25 or 26. Unfortunately by then they'll be long gone and it'll be on another team.

 

[VanJack]

Kravtsov and Podkolzin are going to be late bloomers like Nichushkin. I don't think they'll break out until 25 or 26. Unfortunately by then they'll be long gone and it'll be on another team.

These games in the dog days of another lost season, are still very important to guys like Podkolzin and Kravtsov. They're getting valuable minutes and there's really no pressure, because the season is winding down.

I really think that their diligence on the defensive side of the puck will determine how much playing time they get down the stretch and even into next season.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

These games in the dog days of another lost season, are still very important to guys like Podkolzin and Kravtsov. They're getting valuable minutes and there's really no pressure, because the season is winding down.

I really think that their diligence on the defensive side of the puck will determine how much playing time they get down the stretch and even into next season.

These games are important to Fatquilini, Rutherford, Allvin, and Tocchet.