Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - Signed 2-Year Deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk

[Buresflyingelbow]

If Raty, Kravtsov and Petey (needs to put on weight) end up all playing down the middle that would be some serious size at 6’2 being the smallest guy.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Rangers fan checking in on Kravtsov. Was always a fan of his. How's he doing in Vancouver? I remember he had a nice start for you guys in the first couple of games, but I see from his stats he's only played 8 games? What's the story? Is he already getting scratched again?

 

[Gstank]

Rangers fan checking in on Kravtsov. Was always a fan of his. How's he doing in Vancouver? I remember he had a nice start for you guys in the first couple of games, but I see from his stats he's only played 8 games? What's the story? Is he already getting scratched again?

Good enough to be in the everyday lineup. Hasnt been captializing on the multiple grade A chances he has been getting. Will probably be pencilled in as a bottom 6 winger next season as h has shown enough to be given a chance come trainning camp next season

 

[The New Russian Five]

Good enough to be in the everyday lineup. Hasnt been captializing on the multiple grade A chances he has been getting. Will probably be pencilled in as a bottom 6 winger next season as h has shown enough to be given a chance come trainning camp next season

I feel like that is just a confidence thing for him after how he was handled in New York. One mistake or flubbed puck and he was benched. If Vancouver keeps playing him and giving him positive reinforcement, I am sure he'll start burying those.

 

[theguardianII]

I feel like that is just a confidence thing for him after how he was handled in New York. One mistake or flubbed puck and he was benched. If Vancouver keeps playing him and giving him positive reinforcement, I am sure he'll start burying those.

How did that game last night work for his confidence eh? Or Pod's? Or Studnika's?

Tocchet will not play the young guys needing more ice time now with meaningless games what do you think he will do once games mean something?

Pod's with another game under 10 min, Krav not even in the lineup.

Tocchet refuses to teach, he just allocates ice time. The top 5 players all get more than 20 minutes a game and the bottom six less than 10 min a game.

Tocchet is desperate for wins and favouritism for star players.

 

[beachcomber]

How did that game last night work for his confidence eh? Or Pod's? Or Studnika's?

Tocchet will not play the young guys needing more ice time now with meaningless games what do you think he will do once games mean something?

Pod's with another game under 10 min, Krav not even in the lineup.

Tocchet refuses to teach, he just allocates ice time. The top 5 players all get more than 20 minutes a game and the bottom six less than 10 min a game.

Tocchet is desperate for wins and favouritism for star players.

How do you have any clue as to what Tocchet and his assistants do on the days other than game days as far as teaching goes? Of course he wants to win every game, it is pro sports, not a developmental league.

 

[sting101]

How did that game last night work for his confidence eh? Or Pod's? Or Studnika's?

Tocchet will not play the young guys needing more ice time now with meaningless games what do you think he will do once games mean something?

Pod's with another game under 10 min, Krav not even in the lineup.

Tocchet refuses to teach, he just allocates ice time. The top 5 players all get more than 20 minutes a game and the bottom six less than 10 min a game.

Tocchet is desperate for wins and favouritism for star players.

What a strange take and i strongly disagree. He's coaching as he will next year on merits from his viewpoint

Sure he could just 1234 Willie the lines and some of us would appreciate that considering how the season has ended up and desires to tank but Kravtsov getting heaps of ice time to look like a wet noodle is not being a good coach.

The players have to earn ice time by being effective during the time they get not the opposite. Anything else is favouritism.

Does Krav and Pod deserve it more than Beauvillier and Kuzmenko. Should they switch ice time and centers so we can prop up 2 players and be worse now because of it? Is that good coaching

How would you view that then. Probably blame him for ruining the development by putting them in situations to fail just like (everyone who rightly so) thought Gaudette Virtanen and McCann should have spent more development time before getting the roles they did and falling flat.

Teaching is practice, development and training camps not allocating ice time not earned.

I really want these guys to succeed but neither has looked like they need to be out there more to keep the pressure on the opposition consistently nor are they producing.

 

[Raistlin]

What a strange take and i strongly disagree. He's coaching as he will next year on merits from his viewpoint

Sure he could just 1234 Willie the lines and some of us would appreciate that considering how the season has ended up and desires to tank but Kravtsov getting heaps of ice time to look like a wet noodle is not being a good coach.

The players have to earn ice time by being effective during the time they get not the opposite. Anything else is favouritism.

Does Krav and Pod deserve it more than Beauvillier and Kuzmenko. Should they switch ice time and centers so we can prop up 2 players and be worse now because of it? Is that good coaching

How would you view that then. Probably blame him for ruining the development by putting them in situations to fail just like (everyone who rightly so) thought Gaudette Virtanen and McCann should have spent more development time before getting the roles they did and falling flat.

Teaching is practice, development and training camps not allocating ice time not earned.

I really want these guys to succeed but neither has looked like they need to be out there more to keep the pressure on the opposition consistently nor are they producing.

I seem to recall the Sedins being throw out there to be ragdolled early on in their careers, until they eventually figured out that they have to develop their strength to survive in this league. And guess what? He credited Crawford for the tough love and opportunity many many times in interviews. You need to play a guy like Kravtsov, the ONLY reason he is available to us is because the previous org poisoned the relationship by not giving him the ice time. The kid is defensively responsible, and has shown good IQ every game, he is lacking strength, he is lacking ice time. On top of everything, he is lacking confidence, big time. It doesn't matter how much teaching happens in practice (you don't think that happens in NY?), if you don't play him in key situations, like the last minutes, like OT, it DOES NOT develop his confidence one bit.

He is a magic bean for this team, a shortcut, if you just water but dont plant the freakin bean, he will not help your shortcut, and likely just fly the heck back to Russia. Now is the time to just play him, you don't need to win these games, you don't think other players know this time is development time? 90% of you guys reading this know that this is garbage time when you are behind by 4 goals with 3 mins reamining, you know how this time should be used. You think petey and quinn will lose faith in the coach if he prioritize development and throw minutes to Podkolzin, Hoglander and Kravtsov? It's part of business. They are probably as surprised as we are that Demko is being trotted out there every game, but they won't complain, cool, let's win every game!

This is preseason, let me reiterate, organizationally, these two months is no different than an extra preseason, the other 31 teams treat it as such, we are the only team that comes out to win all these meaningless games Organizationally. What do you think Kravtsov is thinking when he gets scratched even when nothing is on the line and he's supposed to be developed in game situation?? Paying lip service in front of media is BS, just play him.

 

[VanJack]

Kravstov kind reminds me of Nichuchkin or Gurianov......for some reason it takes some Russian players longer to adjust to NA hockey.

And sometimes the teams that drafted them, get frustrated with their development an give up on them too early.

You can see Kravtsov has all the skill and skating speed you need to be an effective NHL player. But will just take more time.

 

[ChilliBilly]

if we somehow get Michkov, this Moscow team will have a real chance to dominate with

Kuzmenko, Podkolain, Mikheyev, Michkov and Kravtsov ... that is some serious talent. And a few more Russians deep in the system ....

 

[Canucks LB]

Kravstov kind reminds me of Nichuchkin or Gurianov......for some reason it takes some Russian players longer to adjust to NA hockey.

And sometimes the teams that drafted them, get frustrated with their development an give up on them too early.

You can see Kravtsov has all the skill and skating speed you need to be an effective NHL player. But will just take more time.

I actually think he can’t skate very well whatsoever, sure he has top end speed, but he’s not shifty, kind of skates sideways, really really bad basics.

 

[RobertKron]

Kravstov kind reminds me of Nichuchkin or Gurianov......for some reason it takes some Russian players longer to adjust to NA hockey.

And sometimes the teams that drafted them, get frustrated with their development an give up on them too early.

You can see Kravtsov has all the skill and skating speed you need to be an effective NHL player. But will just take more time.

So did Virtanen.

 

[Shareefruck]

Kravtsov's hockey sense isn't as laughably bad as Virtanen's. Not that I really expect him to be better or anything.

 

[dez]

This offseason is crucial for him, he either gets stronger and shows up to training camp a better player or he gets cut and it's back to Russia.

 

[credulous]

This offseason is crucial for him, he either gets stronger and shows up to training camp a better player or he gets cut and it's back to Russia.

his contract is up and he's going to be looking for a payday. he's already shown he's not shy about going back to the khl if he doesn't get what he wants (guaranteed nhl playing time). he's not gonna sign another near league min contract and he hasn't shown he's worth anything more than that. i think his nhl career is probably over for now unless he shows up big in the last 13 games

 

[dez]

his contract is up and he's going to be looking for a payday. he's already shown he's not shy about going back to the khl if he doesn't get what he wants (guaranteed nhl playing time). he's not gonna sign another near league min contract and he hasn't shown he's worth anything more than that. i think his nhl career is probably over for now unless he shows up big in the last 13 games

I think his agent and him realize they have one last shot at this, a qualifying offer of 800kish would be fine. Not sure what he can show playing 9 minutes on a 4th line with a coach who thinks every game is a must win.

 

[lawrence]

Rangers fan checking in on Kravtsov. Was always a fan of his. How's he doing in Vancouver? I remember he had a nice start for you guys in the first couple of games, but I see from his stats he's only played 8 games? What's the story? Is he already getting scratched again?

hes doing fine bro. The next Kovalev.

 

[iceburg]

Kravtsov has been a little disappointing so far IMO. He seems to float around and not get much done. At least Podkolzin uses his bull mentality to affect plays even if that isn't translating to points. Kravtsov definitely shows flashes of serious skill and his skating together with his size make him an intriguing player. But he will need to find another level of intelligence and intensity or he'll end up back in the KHL pretty quickly.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

The best thing for his upcoming season is to go down to the farm, dominate and get a playoff run then come to camp and compete for a top nine spot.
He had the talent and looks like the work effort ( as in there is some )
Not sure how waivers work for him

 

[iceburg]

The best thing for his upcoming season is to go down to the farm, dominate and get a playoff run then come to camp and compete for a top nine spot.
He had the talent and looks like the work effort ( as in there is some )
Not sure how waivers work for him

He's an RFA at the end of this year and I believe he needs to clear waivers to go to Abby.

 

[theguardianII]

How do you have any clue as to what Tocchet and his assistants do on the days other than game days as far as teaching goes? Of course he wants to win every game, it is pro sports, not a developmental league.

What are exhibition games for?
Are these games any different?
If so why?

What a strange take and i strongly disagree. He's coaching as he will next year on merits from his viewpoint

Sure he could just 1234 Willie the lines and some of us would appreciate that considering how the season has ended up and desires to tank but Kravtsov getting heaps of ice time to look like a wet noodle is not being a good coach.

The players have to earn ice time by being effective during the time they get not the opposite. Anything else is favouritism.

Does Krav and Pod deserve it more than Beauvillier and Kuzmenko. Should they switch ice time and centers so we can prop up 2 players and be worse now because of it? Is that good coaching

How would you view that then. Probably blame him for ruining the development by putting them in situations to fail just like (everyone who rightly so) thought Gaudette Virtanen and McCann should have spent more development time before getting the roles they did and falling flat.

Teaching is practice, development and training camps not allocating ice time not earned.

I really want these guys to succeed but neither has looked like they need to be out there more to keep the pressure on the opposition consistently nor are they producing.

So after pre-season teaching stops?
What is the AHL for?
What are the Abby Canucks for?
Even Pettersson had no points with only 9 min of ice time 3 years ago.

Tocchet has increased ice time for confident players by 25% or so and limited ice time to those that need it by more than that.

Didn't they play Boeser with better centers to try to get his confidence back?
Have you ever heard of that kind of coaching anywhere?

I remember a few players that were treated like that with some coaches, Burroughs was one, minimum ice time until he got a chance to play with good players and magic happened. StLouis was shunned in Calgary and once in Tampa with a coach that played him he became the award winner, Brier was another lost player but shone as played more ice time, Lowry, even JTMiller.

Right now Tocchet plays a 3 line game and in every playoff game you will hear coming up will be the refrain teams need to be 4 line teams. At this time Tocchet can play his stars to death because the end of their season comes up shortly, no playoffs, nothing to save for, all in at all costs. Why?

Look at teams that have rocketed past the Canucks in their rebuilds, they played their younger unknown players and found if not gems then more than just useful roster players.

So the chat is they will lose Krastov now, a wasted asset because Tocchet has the "structure" of a #1 line, scoring, a #2 line, secondary scoring, a #3 energy/checking line and a #4 line, pure energy/hitting line. High skill guys don't play big hitting roles very well. Maybe Tocchet feels the team has too much scoring skill and not enough truculence so the skill guys don't conform so they don't play? Old school.

Tocchet's present success has Petey playing more TOI than the Sedins had in thier careers, the same with Hughes and Miller all are playing more than those HoFer's even Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Mathews and Marner.
Since his "new structure" the bottom six has suffered scoring even less than before but also less ice time too.
Look up these stats on NHL websites.

Meaningless games with no pressure to win and losing the younger players due to "make ONE mistake and get benched" all the while Garland, Boeser, Beauvilliver, cough up the put two or three times more often and get rewarded by being given ice time with the top centers. Whether it appears they have earned the ice time it still looks like favouritism and that the coach has NO confidence in those younger players. Those players start looking at the bench to be pulled from the game more during the play rather than just play and don't think.

Between the Pettersson and Miller line they are playing more than 40 mins a game that leaves around 20 minutes for 6 players.

Is there that much doubt in Tocchet about whether Pettersson and Miller's ability that he needs to test them constantly? IMO it takes no thought about them so there is no coaching to play them, the easy street. Has Tocchet no confidence in himself or staff to coach up the younger players? So the safest thing is not play them.

So there is now a good chance that Kras goes back to the KHL, what is his contact with Pods influences him in that direction too? Who cares right? The team is winning without them right? Good riddance right? What if Hogs decides a year in the KHL or SHL helps his game too? Who needs em? There are a few examples of players having success in the Euro leagues and coming back. Maybe just trade them in a OEL plus Pods, Krastov and Hoglander that's a win isn't it? Tocchet isn't going to play them anyway. If he doesn't now in games that mean nothing what if when they do have added pressure of needing to win each game? There is no more "game seven" pressure day after day.

BTW McCann was played and did get points and better each year, Gaudette ruined his career but was scoring at a high rate until off ice issues, would he have been traded at all if not for infecting the entire team by ignoring team expectations?

Nice structure, Demko did it again.

 

[MS]

First off, I think the usage Kravtsov is receiving is totally fair. He's getting 11-12 minutes/game with two reasonably skilled players plus regular 2nd unit PP time. It isn't like he's playing 6 minutes/game with a Tom Sestito on his wing or something. This is totally normal and fair usage for a guy who is essentially a waiver claim and who needs to out-perform those minutes to get another NHL contract.

Like, different league, but it's exactly the same usage that Arshdeep Bains was getting in Abbotsford for the first 25 or 30 games of this year and Bains kept outplaying his usage and now he's playing 20 minutes/game on the 2nd line + 1st unit PP + 1st unit PK. There are a few lottery picks who get handed opportunities but for 95% of the rank and file pro hockey players you need to take what you're given and outplay a small role and earn a coach's trust to move forward in your career.

Second, I think there is a subtle difference between 'trying' and 'competing'.

Kravtsov is trying. The effort is there and I don't think he's been lazy. He's trying to do things with the puck on his stick, he's aware positionally, and I think he's skating hard on the backcheck generally. And you can see that he actually has a pretty good positional understanding and the ability to be a good forechecker.

But 'competing' is a different thing. Competing is going in hard in 1-on-1 battles, taking hits to make plays, taking the puck hard to high-danger areas, having your eyes light up when you see a loose puck and charging onto it. Elias Pettersson is a slightly built skill player but he's dominant right now because his compete level is off the charts. Kravtsov's is not - he's mostly looked like a timid beta player out there. There was one game (his 2nd after being acquired) where he played with a chip on his shoulder and really battled and was involved and it was like - wow, if he can bring that every night we might have something! But he hasn't been able to replicate that performance at all.

And he needs to replicate that performance every night. There are big talents (Boeser in his first couple years) who can score enough to get by without compete but you can see that Kravtsov is a middle-6 talent, not some sort of gamebreaking star. His skating is actually pretty average, his finishing skills aren't great, he has decent puck/playmaking skills but he's not going to get by as an NHL player based on purely talent. He needs to re-invent himself as a two-way middle-6 forward whose talent might play to 45 or 50 points. And so far ... it's not looking great.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

ok this is me going off into fantasyland here but i am weirdly reminded of those early 90s teams right now

there's the top two lines, with one legit superstar (bure/petey) and some really high pieces around him (linden, ronning, courtnall, adams/jtm, kuz, and let's see if anyone else can vault into that level, whether that's mikheyev, or pod, or beauvillier/garland, or hoglander, or a magically resuscitated boeser).

but then in '92 and '93, there was the third line. those guys were talented and toolsy but flawed and ultimately disappointing players who feasted off easy minutes. jim sandlak was an incredibly inconsistent and routinely soft giant with some really good hands. momesso rotated on the third line sometimes, and he was another giant, but a hardworking, rough and tumble guy who with slightly better hands and/or vision probably could have been tom wilson or career year david clarkson, but in actuality was just a 15-20 goal guy. sometimes robert kron, garry valk, and dixon ward rotated on the third line; all initially had top six potential but after leaving settled into being useful role players. and other than tom fergus, who was a very good veteran ringer in '92, the guy who was the core of that third line was young, mercurial petr nedved.

so my question is, if the top six gets into the groove it can with a petey/miller 1-2 punch, can kravtsov be our version of soft minutes 38 goal, 70 pt 1993 nedved?

 

[Raistlin]

First off, I think the usage Kravtsov is receiving is totally fair. He's getting 11-12 minutes/game with two reasonably skilled players plus regular 2nd unit PP time. It isn't like he's playing 6 minutes/game with a Tom Sestito on his wing or something. This is totally normal and fair usage for a guy who is essentially a waiver claim and who needs to out-perform those minutes to get another NHL contract.

Like, different league, but it's exactly the same usage that Arshdeep Bains was getting in Abbotsford for the first 25 or 30 games of this year and Bains kept outplaying his usage and now he's playing 20 minutes/game on the 2nd line + 1st unit PP + 1st unit PK. There are a few lottery picks who get handed opportunities but for 95% of the rank and file pro hockey players you need to take what you're given and outplay a small role and earn a coach's trust to move forward in your career.

Second, I think there is a subtle difference between 'trying' and 'competing'.

Kravtsov is trying. The effort is there and I don't think he's been lazy. He's trying to do things with the puck on his stick, he's aware positionally, and I think he's skating hard on the backcheck generally. And you can see that he actually has a pretty good positional understanding and the ability to be a good forechecker.

But 'competing' is a different thing. Competing is going in hard in 1-on-1 battles, taking hits to make plays, taking the puck hard to high-danger areas, having your eyes light up when you see a loose puck and charging onto it. Elias Pettersson is a slightly built skill player but he's dominant right now because his compete level is off the charts. Kravtsov's is not - he's mostly looked like a timid beta player out there. There was one game (his 2nd after being acquired) where he played with a chip on his shoulder and really battled and was involved and it was like - wow, if he can bring that every night we might have something! But he hasn't been able to replicate that performance at all.

And he needs to replicate that performance every night. There are big talents (Boeser in his first couple years) who can score enough to get by without compete but you can see that Kravtsov is a middle-6 talent, not some sort of gamebreaking star. His skating is actually pretty average, his finishing skills aren't great, he has decent puck/playmaking skills but he's not going to get by as an NHL player based on purely talent. He needs to re-invent himself as a two-way middle-6 forward whose talent might play to 45 or 50 points. And so far ... it's not looking great.

"Fair" usage is for a team in a playoff hunt. this team is not. Its in full evaluation mode now with 13 games to go. Do you agree? If Im Allvin, if Im Tocchet, I dont give a hoot about fair this year, I want an asset next year when I'm not playing a mushy soft schedule, thats all I freakin want.

If you don't there is nothing to argue about, you aim to run the table and make the playoffs, continue with your fair usage and run Kravtsov out of town. He is an extreme flight risk. Congrats you lost Lockwood and a 7th for nothing, Drury fleeced us. Please do not ever mention rehabbing age gap players who were under utilized in deep teams if you are going to let your coach squander a prime magic bean like this one.

If you do agree to the top statement, then the issue becomes should you give him more than a fair chance for him to prove himself? for management to see what kinda of asset he represents? The way you break a rookie in by giving him extremely sheltered minutes.

In his case, the M.O. is to build his confidence back up. play him in important situations, play him even if he makes mistakes, even when he does not compete as much as you wanted each shift, thats how the twins were given the endless opportunities, and, they were hammered on these same boards, until they emerged finally post WCE days. Communicate to your leaders on the team that we want him and Pod to succeed, to do that, Toc needs to scale back your minutes to something more reasonable. if they are team players, they will agree. or guess what? Have EP center them, he wants to be a leader? Guide these kids.

This is how you build something. You dont look at winning tomorrow, you are building a depressed asset up. Even management want Kravtsov to contribute to next year's success right???? Playing him "fairly" only provide you wins in these 13 games???? Is that the payoff? I cannot fathom the fans on board with this ridiculous short term thinking. FA thinks like that because he actually benefit from season ticket sales for next year, do you guys?

 

[Jyrki]

But 'competing' is a different thing. Competing is going in hard in 1-on-1 battles, taking hits to make plays, taking the puck hard to high-danger areas, having your eyes light up when you see a loose puck and charging onto it. Elias Pettersson is a slightly built skill player but he's dominant right now because his compete level is off the charts. Kravtsov's is not - he's mostly looked like a timid beta player out there. There was one game (his 2nd after being acquired) where he played with a chip on his shoulder and really battled and was involved and it was like - wow, if he can bring that every night we might have something! But he hasn't been able to replicate that performance at all.

And he needs to replicate that performance every night. There are big talents (Boeser in his first couple years) who can score enough to get by without compete but you can see that Kravtsov is a middle-6 talent, not some sort of gamebreaking star. His skating is actually pretty average, his finishing skills aren't great, he has decent puck/playmaking skills but he's not going to get by as an NHL player based on purely talent. He needs to re-invent himself as a two-way middle-6 forward whose talent might play to 45 or 50 points. And so far ... it's not looking great.

Well put. At the NHL level, either you're one of the very best or you have to fight hard every shift.

Boeser can be pretty hilarious to watch. The guy barely looks like he's skating or even playing a contact sport, but he has a really good eye for finding soft spots in the ice and getting the puck off his stick quick, in a way few others can. Garland is almost the polar opposite - he has the ability to skate and motor on better than almost everyone else but his overall skill level is somewhat middling, along with being undersized. So he must be the hardest working guy in the ice if he wants to have an impact at all. So Kravtsov really needs to learn from Garland and accept he's no Boeser, not that he's who we want him to be.