Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - Signed 2-Year Deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk
- Thread starter EdJovanovski
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Then Martin St. Louis and so many others are comparables because the Flames were
"not being willing or able to afford to prioritize easing them in over their larger goals" despite sucking.
The fact of the matter is that Grabner was a former 1st round pick who in his 2nd full pro season was leading the team in goals in 08-09. To be fair, the Canucks did enjoy some good health but they were hardly contenders in 08-09 and they could have given Grabner a cup of coffee to set him up for next year. And in the next year Grabner did get some late games in and played very well. I
The Canucks didn't need to cut Raymond loose. Grabner was on his ELC and showed well the previous season. He even played in 9 playoff games. What it was was a miscalculation on the Canucks part as Ballard sucked. It's not like the Canucks were set in the following year either. For a Cup contender, they had Schaefer make the team on a PTO.
Keep in mind that one of the reasons Gillis gave for trading a 1st round pick is that he believed the team drafted well in 2008 and 2009 and here we have a former 14th overall pick from 2016 who showed that he was NHL ready. The fact that Grabner would end up bombing training camp/preseason with his new team doesn't impact the decision making process. AV even played Grabner over 15 minutes in the elimination game against Chicago.
For years people talk about the importance of having contributors on ELC and then we have one and act like Grabner couldn't have made a significant contribution to the team's scoring depth.
EdJovanovski
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Kravtsov just drew his 3rd penalty in 3 games and got an absolutely gorgeous assist on the ensuing PP.
Wouldn't it be something if Kravtsov morphed into another Andrei Kuzmenko by the time he makes his return to NA. You never know. He was a top-10 pick after all.
EdJovanovski
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Looking like it so far, he's been dominant throughout the preseason & these first 3 games of the regular season (1 period to go in game 3). Keep in mind his development was completely bungled, look at how little hockey he's played over the past few years and how it was broken up into small stints with each team
This will be the first season since 2018 that he's going to play a whole season with one team instead of being bumped between teams and continents. No young player would excel in such a turbulent environment. The Rangers management and handling of young players is an abomination.
I know Kravtsov is at the point in his career where he's no longer considered 'a prospect'. But he's still a young player who's only 23 and developing in one of Europe's top professional leagues.
And when his KHL contract is 'up', he'll still be only 25 if and when he returns to N.A. So for the Canucks, he's a nice asset lying in the weeds and under team control if he does return..
And since he cost Allvin and the Canucks a 7th round draft pick and Will Lockwood, it's hard to find any fault with the whole deal.
And when his KHL contract is 'up', he'll still be only 25 if and when he returns to N.A. So for the Canucks, he's a nice asset lying in the weeds and under team control if he does return..
And since he cost Allvin and the Canucks a 7th round draft pick and Will Lockwood, it's hard to find any fault with the whole deal.
EdJovanovski
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Just got his second assist of the game for the go ahead goal with >5 min remaining! Another very nice assist as well, I'll post videos when I find them
Here was the first assist
Here was the first assist
Looking like it so far, he's been dominant throughout the preseason & these first 3 games of the regular season (1 period to go in game 3). Keep in mind his development was completely bungled, look at how little hockey he's played over the past few years and how it was broken up into small stints with each team
This will be the first season since 2018 that he's going to play a whole season with one team instead of being bumped between teams and continents. No young player would excel in such a turbulent environment. The Rangers management and handling of young players is an abomination.
Can you really say his development was completely bungled given that he refused to stay and play in the AHL? 19-20 is kind of his fault. 21-22 is when he refused an AHL assignment as well?
I have no idea what Kravtsov's money situation was at the time......apparently he's a member of a wealthy family back in Russia.
But you have to realize that there's a huge monetary difference between playing in the AHL on an entry-level contract; and playing in either the NHL or Russia.
It was the same reason Nikita Tryamkin refused a demotion to Utica back in the day. Apparently the Canucks promised him that if he was willing to forgo his KHL salary, they'd make sure he earned NHL money.
So regarding Kravtsov......why didn't the Rangers just loan him to a team in the KHL if he wasn't ready, rather than try to force him to play for peanuts in the AHL?
Cancuks
Former Exalted Ruler
the physical side of the game was never his problem.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
This video shows both the assists today, both were really nice
Point per game through 3 games, keep in mind the leading scorer in the KHL last year had 62pts in 67gp, it's significantly lower scoring than the NHL. Over a point per game in the preseason as well, looking poised to have a great year.
Point per game through 3 games, keep in mind the leading scorer in the KHL last year had 62pts in 67gp, it's significantly lower scoring than the NHL. Over a point per game in the preseason as well, looking poised to have a great year.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
He did report to the AHL and played there and they never called him up despite injuries, and they kept him rotting in the AHL so they could keep Libor Hajek on the taxi squad which was an extraordinarily absurd move as that meant they were carrying too many defensemen and not enough forwards. At which point he triggered his European Assignment Clause (which was something negotiated into his contract), other players on that same team didn't even report to the AHL and triggered their clause right away; Kravtsov is the one who actually reported to the AHL when others didn't. Then when Kravtsov was saying goodbye to his teammates Chris Drury publicly berated him, yelling at him and calling him a quitter in front of the entire Hartford team.
To put more context into him being snubbed of that spot in 2019, not only did he outproduce Kakko in that preseason; but he also outproduced the likes of Zibanejad, Kreider, Strome, Fox, etc. Kakko was handed the spot on a silver platter solely because of his draft pedigree despite him being underwhelming in camp by all reports, and Kravtsov blowing the doors off throughout training camp as well as the preseason.
Other young players have requested trades from Hartford and reported experiencing abuse & mistreatment (Lias Andersson) and then Nils Lundkvist straight up refused to even report to training camp and demanded a trade. That organization is rotten to the core.
edit: You can also check our beat writers Twitter and see pics/videos of Kravtsov in practise, and them saying first player on the ice as usual; Kravtsov. He was the first player on the ice and last player off every time, he was going above & beyond while being scratched for 10+ games at a time even in losing streaks and then Gallant says in interviews when asked about Krav "Can't change the lineup after a win" yet after games we won where he played in he got scratched the next game lol
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- May 3, 2021
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Cancuks
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sting101
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idk it takes 2 sides to tango. Rangers may have bungled some of his development but it's also on Kravtsov to show the work rate that is good enough for a NHL player. Also the whole money excuse for leaving is dog shxx. Even McDavid played for peanuts on a ELC. Earn your 2nd contract.... it's what everyone has to do?
I love that PA and JR have given him a 2nd chance and the truth is some players just take a long time to figure things out. Krav has got tons of skill and size would love to see him mature and become a player down the road.
Not counting on it but he's an interesting talent to follow.
I love that PA and JR have given him a 2nd chance and the truth is some players just take a long time to figure things out. Krav has got tons of skill and size would love to see him mature and become a player down the road.
Not counting on it but he's an interesting talent to follow.
I was responding to EdJovo's post about how little Kravtsov has played and his playing being split up between different teams. I understand the desire to play at home if not playing in the NHL.
If playing in the NHL is the goal, Tryamkin is actually an example of a player who bungled his owned NHL dreams.
The Rangers have had issues developing their forwards and I know you're a big fan of Kratsov. What I was responding to was your point about Kravtsov not having played much over the years and also splitting his time among different teams. My point is that's partly his fault. You can't completely blame the team when the player refuses to follow the team's preferred route of development for the player. Of course it sometimes work out better for players to not listen to the team.
I've made this point before, that crop of highly regarded Russian forwards have largely not developed into star players. Gurionov, Kravtsov, Denisenko, and Pods have all (thus far) underachieved. Of course there is Kaprizov but he wasn't a 1st rounder like the other guys.
This is always going to be a challenge in drafting and developing young players from Russia. If they end up in the minors in N.A. on their three-year ELC, they're forgoing a lot of money they could have earned by staying in the KHL.
Even after drafting Podkolzin, the Canucks had to wait for two years for him to finish his KHL contract. I remember at the time, Canuck fans were worried about Podz's deployment and his development.
But I understand the dilemma for guys like Kravstov. He probably should have stayed in Russia, even after the Ranger drafted him. He'd have been developing in league at least as good as the AHL, and earning a lot more money.
Even after drafting Podkolzin, the Canucks had to wait for two years for him to finish his KHL contract. I remember at the time, Canuck fans were worried about Podz's deployment and his development.
But I understand the dilemma for guys like Kravstov. He probably should have stayed in Russia, even after the Ranger drafted him. He'd have been developing in league at least as good as the AHL, and earning a lot more money.
ChilliBilly
Registered User
Every player who plays in the NHL has to go through an ELC. But there is a major difference between $1.5 M / yr and roughly $70K. A lot of people think he played well enough to deserve to be playing in the NHL. The KHL is a much better choice for him rather than playing in the AHL for the next 2 years. In fact, I suspect he projects better for the Canucks than any other prospect we have not named Willander.
By all accounts this seems to have been a mutual decision for what is best for VK. Make tolerable money in the KHL, where he speaks the language, and play better hockey than he would in Abby. Fine for his development. When he comes back in 3 years, I believe he will be a RFA and can sign for whatever he seems to be worth. (does anyone know what he was being paid in Abby, I don't see any info on what his last contract with the NYR was?)
For that matter I assume he has to play out the full 2 years before he returns, or are there provisions for him to return early if both sides agree?
I think Allvin and the Canucks knew Kravtsov would be a 'project' when they acquired him from the Rangers.
His development had stalled; and the player and his agent desperately wanted out. But from a pure scouting perspective, there was no denying the first-round talent. So in expending a seventh rounder and Will Lockwood--the Canucks were buying at the bottom of the market.
Shipping him off to the KHL is definitely the right approach. He plays in a top league; earns a lot more money; and potentially comes back to the NHL as a much more refined player.
The Canucks are merely stashing a one highly-touted prospect in another league to see what happens.
His development had stalled; and the player and his agent desperately wanted out. But from a pure scouting perspective, there was no denying the first-round talent. So in expending a seventh rounder and Will Lockwood--the Canucks were buying at the bottom of the market.
Shipping him off to the KHL is definitely the right approach. He plays in a top league; earns a lot more money; and potentially comes back to the NHL as a much more refined player.
The Canucks are merely stashing a one highly-touted prospect in another league to see what happens.
credulous
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i don't think any nhl team would encourage a player they have plans for to return to europe. except for maybe goalies who are blocked by other more promising prospects there's zero reason an nhl team would prefer their players play in europe than in the ahl or even the echl. i think kravtsov just decided he was returning to the khl for whatever reason and the canucks have so little invested in him they didn't particularly care so it doesn't hurt them to play along like it was a mutual decision
So is Kravtov better off earning more money and getting lots of ice-time in the KHL for the next two years; or plying his trade with Abbotsford, basically earning an AHL salary and bouncing back and forth between the NH and AHL? From the player's perspective it's a 'no brainer' right?
I think what you're going to see more and more is that when NHL teams draft Russians--and they're not ready for the NHL--then just leave them playing in the KHL. It's a 'top league', and in terms of 'development' they're no worse off than playing in the AHL.
I'm sure that's why the Flyers aren't all that concerned about their top draft pick Matvei Michkov playing a couple more years in Russia; or the Canucks were when Podkolzin played two years with SKA St. Petersburg after being drafted.
Sometimes these young guys get short-changed in terms of ice-time in the KHL, but they're playing and practicing with pros every day. And at 18 years old, it's hard to say how much more ice time they'd be getting in the AHL anyway.
I think what you're going to see more and more is that when NHL teams draft Russians--and they're not ready for the NHL--then just leave them playing in the KHL. It's a 'top league', and in terms of 'development' they're no worse off than playing in the AHL.
I'm sure that's why the Flyers aren't all that concerned about their top draft pick Matvei Michkov playing a couple more years in Russia; or the Canucks were when Podkolzin played two years with SKA St. Petersburg after being drafted.
Sometimes these young guys get short-changed in terms of ice-time in the KHL, but they're playing and practicing with pros every day. And at 18 years old, it's hard to say how much more ice time they'd be getting in the AHL anyway.
My understanding is they retain his rights for longer this way and don't have to worry about waivers.
I thought Kravtsov was good when he played last year despite not scoring much. Created chances and I thought his physical engagement and forechecking were both above average on the team. I don't agree with the concerns about him being soft. The finish wasn't quite there though - and maybe more confidence needed to make high danger offensive plays - hopefully he can figure that out.
EdJovanovski
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