Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - Signed 2-Year Deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk

[VanJack]

The thing that screwed him was that he was in an organization that was trying to win the cup, and couldn’t afford to prioritize bringing along an iffy player to see if it might work out in a year or two. In a different org, maybe he sticks around and eventually becomes an NHL lifer, but it wasn’t going to happen in Vancouver at that time.

Same deal with Grabner, and some folks can’t seem to get over that one either.

Absolutely true, and a reminder of why 'player development' is critical for a player like Kravtsov. Clearly the Rangers saw enough of him to justify making him a top-10 pick. And what's not to like--a 6'3" forward who can skate and handle the puck.

But from his draft year it was mostly downhill.....when he did get into the lineup he struggled; lost his confidence and languished for long stretches in the press-box. But of course the Rangers were in a tough division and trying to 'win it all'. So player development was de-prioritized.

Former Ranger coach Gerrard Gallant has admitted that the team didn't bring along Kravtsov properly and he should have probably spent two years playing exclusively for their Hartford AHL team.

So all-in-all a good gamble for the Canucks--at the expense of a seventh round draft pick and Will Lockwood. You try and imagine the hue and cry on these boards if it was the Canucks who surrendered a former ninth overall pick for so little.

So the perfect scenario is that he rebuilds his game in the KHL and re-signs with the Canucks in couple of seasons who still retain his rights.

 

[credulous]

Former Ranger coach Gerrard Gallant has admitted that the team didn't bring along Kravtsov properly and he should have probably spent two years playing exclusively for their Hartford AHL team.

hard to do that when he refused to report to hartford twice

 

[RobertKron]

Absolutely true, and a reminder of why 'player development' is critical for a player like Kravtsov. Clearly the Rangers saw enough of him to justify making him a top-10 pick. And what's not to like--a 6'3" forward who can skate and handle the puck.

But from his draft year it was mostly downhill.....when he did get into the lineup he struggled; lost his confidence and languished for long stretches in the press-box. But of course the Rangers were in a tough division and trying to 'win it all'. So player development was de-prioritized.

Former Ranger coach Gerrard Gallant has admitted that the team didn't bring along Kravtsov properly and he should have probably spent two years playing exclusively for their Hartford AHL team.

So all-in-all a good gamble for the Canucks--at the expense of a seventh round draft pick and Will Lockwood. You try and imagine the hue and cry on these boards if it was the Canucks who surrendered a former ninth overall pick for so little.

So the perfect scenario is that he rebuilds his game in the KHL and re-signs with the Canucks in couple of seasons who still retain his rights.

What did they get for Juolevi?

Also, if what they think would have been best for him would have been playing in the AHL, how do you figure the Rangers wanting to "win it all" had anything to do with Kravtsov? I don't think he even saw the NHL until his D+3. That's like the complete opposite of what we're talking about with Shirokov or Grabner.

 

[Lackhalak]

What did they get for Juolevi?

Also, if what they think would have been best for him would have been playing in the AHL, how do you figure the Rangers wanting to "win it all" had anything to do with Kravtsov? I don't think he even saw the NHL until his D+3. That's like the complete opposite of what we're talking about with Shirokov or Grabner.

Juulsen, he might be on the Canucks top pair this year.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Juulsen, he might be on the Canucks top pair this year.

A bust prospect traded for a top pair defenseman

What a coup

 

[EdJovanovski]

Just scored the game tying goal late in the 3rd with a one timer!

 

[VanJack]

I'm glad the Canucks held on to Kravtsov's NHL rights. You just never know with young players.

 

[F A N]

I'm glad the Canucks held on to Kravtsov's NHL rights. You just never know with young players.

Well it was a no brainer. Kravtsov already signed a 2 year contract to play in Russia. The Canucks basically can qualify Kravtsov with zero risk of Kravtsov accepting. But ya if Kravtsov wants to return to the NHL in 2 years, the Canucks will hold his rights.

 

[EdJovanovski]

For those itching to watch some hockey, the KHL regular season begins tomorrow. Kravtsov's (Traktor Chelyabinsk) first game is Saturday at 6AM pacific time!

 

[Raistlin]

For those itching to watch some hockey, the KHL regular season begins tomorrow. Kravtsov's (Traktor Chelyabinsk) first game is Saturday at 6AM pacific time!

surprised you aren't flying over to cheer him on in the opener right now.

 

[EdJovanovski]

First game of the KHL season right now, Kravtsov just scored to tie the game 1-1 in the 3rd. Scored on the PP that he drew the penalty for!

 

[EdJovanovski]

Don't get how they awarded the goal to Kalinin, there's no way he tipped that

 

[ChilliBilly]

So a stupid question. People are talking about "retaining his rights".

1 - what possible reason would there be to "not to retain his rights". He doesn't count against the 50 contracts does he?

2 - How does a team "not retain his rights". Is there even a process to do this? It's not like he's a convicted pedophile who supports trump.

 

[RobertKron]

So a stupid question. People are talking about "retaining his rights".

1 - what possible reason would there be to "not to retain his rights". He doesn't count against the 50 contracts does he?

2 - How does a team "not retain his rights". Is there even a process to do this? It's not like he's a convicted pedophile who supports trump.

You don't retain his rights if you don't give him a QO by the deadline. He'd have become a UFA like Bear, Focht, and Dermott.

The only reason not to do so is if he was so much of a problem or pissed someone off so much that they wanted to wash their hands of him, or if they wanted to be nice and give him an opportunity to catch on in a different org. Although if he'd made someone mad enough you could argue that they might retain his rights just to f*** him over if he wanted to play somewhere else. (Obviously not saying that I think this is what happened.)

Also, he's still taking up a spot on their reserve list, so there's that. I don't think teams often come very close to the limit there, though, although I could be mistaken.

 

[EdJovanovski]

You don't retain his rights if you don't give him a QO by the deadline. He'd have become a UFA.

The only reason not to do so is if he was so much of a problem or pissed someone off so much that they wanted to wash their hands of him, or if they wanted to be nice and give him an opportunity to catch on in a different org. Although if he'd made someone mad enough you could argue that they might retain his rights just to f*** him over if he wanted to play somewhere else. (Obviously not saying that I think this is what happened.)

Also, he's still taking up a spot on their reserve list, so there's that. I don't think teams often come very close to the limit there, though, although I could be mistaken.

He still wears Canucks hats, t shirts, etc in the gym. I’m 99% sure they are on good terms, they probably mutually agreed that he needed to get stronger and wasn't NHL ready and to come back in a couple years.

 

[RobertKron]

He still wears Canucks hats, t shirts, etc in the gym. I’m 99% sure they are on good terms, they probably mutually agreed that he needed to get stronger and wasn't NHL ready and to come back in a couple years.

As I very directly said: I'm not saying that's what happened. OP asked why a team might/might not give someone a QO and I presented scenarios.

You should be in the gym, Vitali.

 

[EdJovanovski]

As I very directly said: I'm not saying that's what happened. OP asked why a team might/might not give someone a QO and I presented scenarios.

You should be in the gym, Vitali.

Yea I wasn’t posting to argue that point lol I was posting to reaffirm (for other posters who stop by too) that they are on good terms.

And the gym seems to have been paying off, so far in the preseason + their first game today he looks the best he ever has. He looks a lot faster, stronger & much better stamina and taking longer shifts.

 

[RobertKron]

Yea I wasn’t posting to argue that point lol I was posting to reaffirm (for other posters who stop by too) that they are on good terms.

And the gym seems to have been paying off, so far in the preseason + their first game today he looks the best he ever has. He looks a lot faster, stronger & much better stamina and taking longer shifts.

I'm proud of you.

 

[VanJack]

He still wears Canucks hats, t shirts, etc in the gym. I’m 99% sure they are on good terms, they probably mutually agreed that he needed to get stronger and wasn't NHL ready and to come back in a couple years.

I seem to recall that Nikita Tryamkin was still wearing his Canuck gear in some of his social media postings after he left. But in the end if meant nothing.

But I agree with you. I think the parting between Kravstov and the Canucks was amicable. The team probably felt he'd develop just as well playing for a couple of years in the KHL instead of Abbotsford. And for the player and his agent, he earns a lot more money than he could on a two-way NHL contract.

 

[F A N]

The thing that screwed him was that he was in an organization that was trying to win the cup, and couldn’t afford to prioritize bringing along an iffy player to see if it might work out in a year or two. In a different org, maybe he sticks around and eventually becomes an NHL lifer, but it wasn’t going to happen in Vancouver at that time.

Same deal with Grabner, and some folks can’t seem to get over that one either.

Grabner isn't a comparable at all. Grabner scored 30 goals in the AHL and didn't get a cup of coffee. When he was finally given a chance hwas terrific in his time as a Canuck. The idea behind trading Grabner was that he was another smallish speedy skilled winger who needed to play on the top 6 with PP time but Grabner's career proved otherwise. A 23 year old version of Grabner signed to a manageable contract would be a very good asset in today's NHL.

 

[RobertKron]

Grabner isn't a comparable at all. Grabner scored 30 goals in the AHL and didn't get a cup of coffee. When he was finally given a chance hwas terrific in his time as a Canuck. The idea behind trading Grabner was that he was another smallish speedy skilled winger who needed to play on the top 6 with PP time but Grabner's career proved otherwise. A 23 year old version of Grabner signed to a manageable contract would be a very good asset in today's NHL.

Grabner was obviously more of an NHL talent, but he is absolutely a comparable in terms of him being a player that was - in terms of opportunity - something of a casualty of the team not being willing or able to afford to prioritize easing them in over their larger goals. This played out with him being cut by the Panthers, and then landing in an ideal situation with the Islanders where they could keep feeding him ice time for the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the season until he figured things out. That Canucks team wasn't really in a position to make room to bring a young player along - be it Grabner the one year, or their leading AHL scorer in Shirokov the next. Maybe if the Canucks are the 2018 or whatever year Canucks, those two players have a different story here, but the team they were on wasn't going to dedicate that bandwidth to them.

People act as though they should have just cut Raymond loose and then Grabner would have just slid right in and scored 34 goals and won them the cup that year, but IIRC even Grabner has acknowledged that the trade and getting cut by Florida was a kick in the pants to do some growing as a player, and the player that we saw in the New Yorks wasn't necessarily the same one as Vancouver had.

“I played tentative, I wasn't even close to playing my game,” said Grabner, who was acquired by the Panthers from the Canucks in an exchange that saw defenceman Keith Ballard and winger Victor Oreskovich move west. “I was forcing my passes, I didn't engage and make smart plays — I was just trying too hard to do everything right and it didn't work out. It was a lot like my four training camps in Vancouver, I just didn't create any offence and wasn't very good. I feel bad when I hear bad stuff said about Florida for that reason.”

. . .


“I was disappointed when I was traded, I felt I was starting to play well, but at the same time I don't know if I would have been given the same opportunity in Vancouver,” said Grabner, who was taken 14th overall by the Canucks in 2006. “Vancouver went into camp with a lot of top nine forwards, so who knows what would have happened. I knew I didn't play well enough to make the Panthers and even in New York I got off to a slow start and it took time for me to figure things out. Looking back, the way things turned out, I think this was for the best.”

Grabner scored just three times in his first 15 games and only had seven heading into the Christmas break. Since then he's been one of the league's best snipers, with 16 goals in his last 15 games, including 10 in his last half dozen. A bigger surprise may be his plus-11 rating. The defensive part of his game had been the biggest knock against him since junior.

“Playing in New York, our coach [Jack Capuano] is very offensive-minded and really lets me do my own thing in the offensive zone if you take care of your own end,” said Grabner, who is playing on a line with Kyle Okposo and Frans Nielsen. “I'm very grateful for the things Vancouver did for me, even before Mike Gillis. They gave me a chance to play and helped out with my career. I have nothing bad to say about them.”

https://vancouversun.com/news/the-naked-truth-nhler-michael-grabners-misunderstanding

Beyond that, they also traded him to add what they thought was going to be a solid piece. It's not as if they just waived him like the Panthers, but folks still act as though they just tossed him away for no reason.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kravtsov's second game of the season begins in 20 mins, 9:30AM

 

[StreetHawk]

Grabner was obviously more of an NHL talent, but he is absolutely a comparable in terms of him being a player that was - in terms of opportunity - something of a casualty of the team not being willing or able to afford to prioritize easing them in over their larger goals. This played out with him being cut by the Panthers, and then landing in an ideal situation with the Islanders where they could keep feeding him ice time for the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the season until he figured things out. That Canucks team wasn't really in a position to make room to bring a young player along - be it Grabner the one year, or their leading AHL scorer in Shirokov the next. Maybe if the Canucks are the 2018 or whatever year Canucks, those two players have a different story here, but the team they were on wasn't going to dedicate that bandwidth to them.

People act as though they should have just cut Raymond loose and then Grabner would have just slid right in and scored 34 goals and won them the cup that year, but IIRC even Grabner has acknowledged that the trade and getting cut by Florida was a kick in the pants to do some growing as a player, and the player that we saw in the New Yorks wasn't necessarily the same one as Vancouver had.


https://vancouversun.com/news/the-naked-truth-nhler-michael-grabners-misunderstanding

Beyond that, they also traded him to add what they thought was going to be a solid piece. It's not as if they just waived him like the Panthers, but folks still act as though they just tossed him away for no reason.

Canucks had Raymond whom they thought was similar player. Both fast, not physical wingers.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kravtsov just drew another penalty, got hit to the head. Really dirty, hope he's fine. He's out on the PP right now though so he seems fine

 

[Three On Zero]

Kravtsov just drew another penalty, got hit to the head. Really dirty, hope he's fine. He's out on the PP right now though so he seems fine

Where does one partake in these KHL games?