Player Discussion Victor Olofsson (2014, 181st) - Part II (Heading to UFA, Playing at the WCs)

[Dingo44]

oh sweet, we're back to trading him again?

top 6/bottom 6 doesnt really exist on this team, so whether he is 1rw, 2rw, 3rw it doesnt matter.

No, let's throw one of our best goal scorers who has proven to not be just a power play specialist in with a first rounder to draft a guy who MIGHT score as many goals in a few years if everything works right.

I'll keep saying I don't get the obsession to trade off VO but at least in a goalie trade it helps the team now. How many guys in the draft are worth losing VO's production for the next few years?

 

[allsilverdreams]

Quit Dicking around.
5x5

 

[Paxon]

No, let's throw one of our best goal scorers who has proven to not be just a power play specialist in with a first rounder to draft a guy who MIGHT score as many goals in a few years if everything works right.

I'll keep saying I don't get the obsession to trade off VO but at least in a goalie trade it helps the team now. How many guys in the draft are worth losing VO's production for the next few years?

I don't get it for a draft pick at all. We don't need to get younger. We have high end young pieces at every position. A trade that truly solves the goalie issue is obviously something I would consider, but it just doesn't seem likely to me.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

How many lesser players over the years has Buffalo let walk or trade for peanuts just to watch them be solid contributors on other rosters, players that many posters here considered easily replaceable? Here we have a 20 goal scorer, maybe 30, who has improved his all around game and ready to be paid a fair contract. FFS we need to keep those guys.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

The guy continued to contribute while injured, proved he can be useful at even strength, and showed he's still got that lethal shot as he got healthy. He's the kind of middle-6, 2nd PP forward winning teams are loaded with.

If KA trades him, it better be a stellar deal.

 

[LongWayDown37]

I'd meet somewhere inbetween your guys opinions. I'd trade the Florida pick and some other plus's where needed for Crouse. I agree with the poster above he's not worth the Vegas pick given his age and money due coming up. But I agree with you he's exactly what we need and he's one of my most wanted players around the league that is reasonably possible.

Not really in between. I’d probably trade Florida’s first. No way on a mid first.

 

[Dingo44]

Not really in between. I’d probably trade Florida’s first. No way on a mid first.

Lawson Crouse is a fine player but I didn't force myself to watch all those terrible boring Stars games at the end of the year just to get Lawson Crouse.

 

[jmelm]

For whom? Makes no sense to trade up unless there is a specific player you have targeted and they are available at that spot.

Obviously. Teams never trade up for the sake of trading up. They trade up if there's a player they like who is still on the board and they want to secure them.

So we don't know BUF's draft list, but what I do know is that quality over quantity should be the priority, especially given BUF's already deep prospect pool. That is why I suggested trying use our 2nd round pick to trade up one of the 3 fist rounders to target whichever player they really want at a given point in the draft.

IF Olofsson is going to be traded, doing it at the draft would likely yield the best return (or is at least one of the 2 best opportunities, the other being right after FA opens if a team misses a winger they're going after). If he were to be traded at the draft, you could see any possibility for the return: picks, prospects, another player, or even in exchange for moving up several spots. It could even be something like VO + BUF's 2nd rounder for a mid first rounder, as an example. Anything is possible.

But I think what it's going to come down to more than anything else: does Adams see Olofsson as one of the core players to build around for the next 5 to 10 seasons? I believe the answer to that is no.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

Lawson Crouse is a fine player but I didn't force myself to watch all those terrible boring Stars games at the end of the year just to get Lawson Crouse.

Don't worry, you're not the only one. It appears @LongWayDown37 didn't watch Lawson Crouse either

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

As good as VO has been, he's likely not top 6 on the team next year.

Instead of playing him out of position in the bottom 6, why not trade him for a decent goalie, which we need?

Whether it's for a goalie or someone else who fits a need (or timeline) better, yes, that would be the point of trading him.

 

[Dingo44]

Obviously. Teams never trade up for the sake of trading up. They trade up if there's a player they like who is still on the board and they want to secure them.

So we don't know BUF's draft list, but what I do know is that quality over quantity should be the priority, especially given BUF's already deep prospect pool. That is why I suggested trying use our 2nd round pick to trade up one of the 3 fist rounders to target whichever player they really want at a given point in the draft.

IF Olofsson is going to be traded, doing it at the draft would likely yield the best return (or is at least one of the 2 best opportunities, the other being right after FA opens if a team misses a winger they're going after). If he were to be traded at the draft, you could see any possibility for the return: picks, prospects, another player, or even in exchange for moving up several spots. It could even be something like VO + BUF's 2nd rounder for a mid first rounder, as an example. Anything is possible.

But I think what it's going to come down to more than anything else: does Adams see Olofsson as one of the core players to build around for the next 5 to 10 seasons? I believe the answer to that is no.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

Don't worry, you're not the only one. It appears @LongWayDown37 didn't watch Lawson Crouse either

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

Whether it's for a goalie or someone else who fits a need (or timeline) better, yes, that would be the point of trading him.

Why do you believe that Adams doesn't see Olofsson as a core player? I've seen nothing to suggest that so maybe you know something we don't.

I've followed Crouse's career since before he was drafted by Florida. He's a perfectly fine player but I believe he could be had with something less than 16th overall.

 

[Djp]

Well, we should see if there’s a good offer out there this summer, and go HARD after Nick Paul if he’s available.

I would also consider trading the VGK pick for Crouse is ARI was willing to do that, but I don’t think they will if they can sign him to a long term extension.

Obviously. Teams never trade up for the sake of trading up. They trade up if there's a player they like who is still on the board and they want to secure them.

So we don't know BUF's draft list, but what I do know is that quality over quantity should be the priority, especially given BUF's already deep prospect pool. That is why I suggested trying use our 2nd round pick to trade up one of the 3 fist rounders to target whichever player they really want at a given point in the draft.

IF Olofsson is going to be traded, doing it at the draft would likely yield the best return (or is at least one of the 2 best opportunities, the other being right after FA opens if a team misses a winger they're going after). If he were to be traded at the draft, you could see any possibility for the return: picks, prospects, another player, or even in exchange for moving up several spots. It could even be something like VO + BUF's 2nd rounder for a mid first rounder, as an example. Anything is possible.

But I think what it's going to come down to more than anything else: does Adams see Olofsson as one of the core players to build around for the next 5 to 10 seasons? I believe the answer to that is no.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

Don't worry, you're not the only one. It appears @LongWayDown37 didn't watch Lawson Crouse either

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

Whether it's for a goalie or someone else who fits a need (or timeline) better, yes, that would be the point of trading him.

Crouse is not worth a mid 1st. No if an or buts. He’s not some missing piece on thus team.

thus is not the NFL, you don’t see trades from mid 1st to top 20ever. Drop the idea he somehieow gets traded fir picks.

if he refuses to sign more than a yr on a contract then you can trade him in a player trade.

many pure hockey trades occur after the draft but befire UFA. Trades that occur befire are tied to 1st round picvs

 

[jmelm]

Crouse is not worth a mid 1st. No if an or buts. He’s not some missing piece on thus team.

thus is not the NFL, you don’t see trades from mid 1st to top 20ever. Drop the idea he somehieow gets traded fir picks.

if he refuses to sign more than a yr on a contract then you can trade him in a player trade.

many pure hockey trades occur after the draft but befire UFA. Trades that occur befire are tied to 1st round picvs

Crouse is worth a mid 1st round pick all day long. He's a 6'4 gritty, physical power forward with immense character and leadership qualities, who plays on both special teams and can play a shut-down or offensive role, and is good for 20-25 goals per season.

In other words, he's a hell of a lot like Alex Tuch (except he's more physical and is 1 year younger). If you don't believe Alex Tuch is worth a mid-1st round pick, well then we'll just agree to disagree lol.

 

[Gras]

AZ only has 9 forwards under contract for next year 2 of which are still on ELC, so they need to consider keeping the good roster players around.

 

[jmelm]

Why do you believe that Adams doesn't see Olofsson as a core player? I've seen nothing to suggest that so maybe you know something we don't.

I've followed Crouse's career since before he was drafted by Florida. He's a perfectly fine player but I believe he could be had with something less than 16th overall.

Because Ofofsson's name was out there at the trade deadline, per Seravalli and Friedman.

Specifically, the concern was about what Olofsson may be awarded in arbitration and BUF likely not wanting to pay that.

Reading between the lines: why would you not want to play a productive scoring winger and power play specialist? My educated guess would be: Adams may believe he already has scoring wingers on the team (i.e. Krebs) or in the AHL (Quinn and Peterka) that are ready to take over that role.

There are already at least 7 other forwards that are truly part of the "core" going forward, short and long term. There are only so many top 6/top 9 spots to go around, so there simply may not be room for everyone. This is a testament to the Sabres depth, not an indictment of Olofsson.

Obviously, BUF is not going to give him away, so no one is saying move him for scraps. But if there's a good deal to be made out there for him, he's not one of the "untouchables" and could be a good piece to use to address another need or bring in a different type of player they may want (such as someone with size/grit/physicality/defensive acumen, or something else).

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

AZ only has 9 forwards under contract for next year 2 of which are still on ELC, so they need to consider keeping the good roster players around.

Agreed. And they won't trade him for all the reasons why I would love to see him here, unless he asks to be traded (as was the case with Chychrun). I was just using him as the type of example of a player that would be great to add.....and then I had to get into a debate about whether he's worth a first round pick lol.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I kind of doubt anyone knows for fact Olofsson's name was out there as KA and the front office don't talk.

I find it humorous that Crouse is a guaranteed 20-25g winger when he's only hit 20 one time in his career. Yes he'd bring a different element to the team, but there's no way I move a mid 1st for him

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Crouse is worth a mid 1st round pick all day long. He's a 6'4 gritty, physical power forward with immense character and leadership qualities, who plays on both special teams and can play a shut-down or offensive role, and is good for 20-25 goals per season.

In other words, he's a hell of a lot like Alex Tuch (except he's more physical and is 1 year younger). If you don't believe Alex Tuch is worth a mid-1st round pick, well then we'll just agree to disagree lol.

Crouse's goal totals each season are 5, 1, 11, 15, 4, 20. Even if you want to be generous and give him 20 goal rate when he scored 15 in 66 games, calling him good for 20-25 goals a year is a stretch. Calling Crouse and Tuch comparable players is another stretch. A big one.

 

[LongWayDown37]

Crouse is worth a mid 1st round pick all day long. He's a 6'4 gritty, physical power forward with immense character and leadership qualities, who plays on both special teams and can play a shut-down or offensive role, and is good for 20-25 goals per season.

In other words, he's a hell of a lot like Alex Tuch (except he's more physical and is 1 year younger). If you don't believe Alex Tuch is worth a mid-1st round pick, well then we'll just agree to disagree lol.

Good for 20-25? He’s hit 20 once and averages less than 10/yr. Just last year he scored 4, on pace for 6 goals over 82 games. And Holy Moly. I’ve watched a decent amount of both. He’s no Tuch.

 

[jmelm]

Crouse's goal totals each season are 5, 1, 11, 15, 4, 20. Even if you want to be generous and give him 20 goal rate when he scored 15 in 66 games, calling him good for 20-25 goals a year is a stretch. Calling Crouse and Tuch comparable players is another stretch. A big one.

We’ll look at Tage Thompson’s goal totals his first 5 years: 3, 7, 0, 8, 38.

Either you believe these players have finally reached their potential and are for real, or you think that their recent successful seasons are outliers and they won’t be able to replicate it. I think Thompson is for real. I think Crouse is for real, too.

In any event, we have gotten away from the core topic and got stuck on Crouse which is irrelevant because ARI will not trade him, so it’s a moot point.

My point was, as good a player as Olofsson is, I just think we have (or will have) too many of the same types of player, within the next year or two and certainly beyond.

I also don’t view Olofsson as a core player to build around. The key core players are Power/Dahlin/Samuelsson on Defense, and Thompson/Cozens/Tuch/Krebs/Quinn/Peterka and Skinner (both in terms of his current great play as well as his immovable contract) at Forward. Mittelstadt hopefully will work his way into that conversation as well.

That’s an unbelievable core that’s not even taking into account any other prospects, frankly a lot deeper than a lot of other teams that have won cups or are perpetual Cup contenders. I don’t see Olofsson as being an essential part of that, so I could see why Adams may not want to make a long term commitment to him when he could earn north of 4 or 4.5M on the open market.

I do, however, think it is critical to add some other elements and types of players to this team in the bottom 6, and I would move Olofsson over any of those other core forwards I mentioned above to accommodate that.

 

[Djp]

Crouse is worth a mid 1st round pick all day long. He's a 6'4 gritty, physical power forward with immense character and leadership qualities, who plays on both special teams and can play a shut-down or offensive role, and is good for 20-25 goals per season.

In other words, he's a hell of a lot like Alex Tuch (except he's more physical and is 1 year younger). If you don't believe Alex Tuch is worth a mid-1st round pick, well then we'll just agree to disagree lol.

Tuch is 10x better

Crouse is basically a 4th liner.

 

[CowbellConray]

Would love to lock Victor up for 4-5 years. I think he is a very solid player and would settle as a 50-60 point player on almost any team in the league. I'm not looking to give that up.

Regarding Crouse, he has been a very average bottom six player his entire career until this season, where he was given over 17 minutes a night. He is Zemgus Girgensons with more size and physicality. Is that worth something? Absolutely. Do I expect him to get 17/18 minutes a night here and shoot 15% a year so he puts up 20 goals? Not a chance.

I'd throw a 3rd+prospect to the Yotes and see if they bite. But he is no where close to a 1st.

 

[BG82]

I don't get it for a draft pick at all. We don't need to get younger. We have high end young pieces at every position. A trade that truly solves the goalie issue is obviously something I would consider, but it just doesn't seem likely to me.

Yea trading VO for more youth makes no sense. I'm actually in favor for moving a prospect and a pick for a veteran guy.

If KA sees a deal that helps us, I doubt VO will be the guy going. Were entering a win now, window

 

[Jim Bob]

I love when people claim a player is a lock to do something moving forward that they have either never done in their NHL career to date or only done once or twice in 6+ NHL seasons.

Just because a player has done something once does not mean they are a lock to keep doing it moving forward.

 

[jc17]

I love when people claim a player is a lock to do something moving forward that they have either never done in their NHL career to date or only done once or twice in 6+ NHL seasons.

Just because a player has done something once does not mean they are a lock to keep doing it moving forward.

Is this alluding to crouse as a 20 goal scorer or vo as a 30 goal scorer?

 

[jc17]

Edit

 

[Matt Ress]

I love VO. Such a great story and really worked to make his dream come true. He's also consistently at the top of the team leaderboard in scoring.
To play devil's advocate, if you're looking to beef up the forward group or upgrade another position, Ollie seems like the most tradeable piece. He's a non ELC, you kind of know what you have with him (although he continues to round out his game every year), below average on the wall and defensively because of his frame, and doesn't bring anything in terms of physicality.
He's really only considered because every other forward either doesn't have value, they're still developing or is seen as a core piece.

 

[Reddawg]

I still believe VO can be a 40 goal scorer in the NHL, if he stays healthy and plays his game with the right linemates and PP time. He almost certainly would have been above 30 goals this past season if not for the wrist injury that robbed him (and us) of more than half a season of his shooting ability.

Trading him would be a giant mistake unless he’s totally unwilling to be reasonable during contract negotiations.