Confirmed Signing with Link: Vesey signs with the New York Rangers Part 2

[Dubi Doo]

Great pickup for the Rangers, If they can manage to acquire 1-2 2nd pairing D men they will be contenders

That will be their Achilles heel going forward. That defensive group is aging fast, and they aren't known for their puck moving skills, which is vital in this league. The forward group is very deep and has a some great two-way players, but lacks that superstar in the mold of Kane, Crosby, Kopitar, etc.. many teams need to win a cup.

I just don't see them contending any time soon unless that defense gets settled. It's going to hold them back a lot, and unfortunately developing top-4 defensemen takes longer than developing top-6 wingers and top-6 centers, so while they're set on offense...building that defense to a contender level will take some time. By then Henrik may be declining, and who knows how the forwards will look if/when the defense is elite. The team's timeline to success just seems wonky to me.

 

[MSG*]

[mod]

Like Pittsburgh paid for having a crap team and then drafting Crosby one year and Malkin the next?

Or like the Oilers paid for having a crap team and getting all those first overall picks?

Or how Buffalo paid for having a crap team and then drafting Eichel?

Or how the Leafs paid this year for having a crap team and then drafting Matthews?

Even the Blackhawks with Kane and Toews?

The Bruins with Seguin?

Because we all know having a deep prospect pool is more important that having a good team for your fans to watch.

I don't know if there's a team in the league since the NHL expanded from 6 to 12 teams in 1968 that have had fewer top 5 draft picks than the Rangers. Even teams that haven't been around very long have had more top 5 draft picks than the Rangers. The Rangers since 1968 have never had a first overall or even a second overall draft pick. Tell me what other team? Like them or not one thing about the Rangers year in and year out whether they make the playoffs or not never try to dog it.

Since 1968 the Rangers have had one top 5 pick in 48 years and they ****ed it up. That was 1999 No. 4 Pavel Brendl.

Gorton summed it up. 'We try to win". Players like that. Rangers don't tank and they actually value the team on the ice more than the prospects on a message board.

 

[MSG*]

Damn. I go away for the weekend, and suddenly the Rangers are A) contenders and B) have a top 5 forward group.

If NYR is adding as much young NHL talent as you're saying they are, then that only means that they're not nearly as deep as you've suggested they are. I think you're wrong about Brassard/Zib (at least when it comes to the next season or two), but that's more opinion then anything. Time will tell how that plays out - the good news for NYR is time is to their benefit there.

Is Lundqvist still a top 5? Because looking at the stats, he's becoming more and more average - and he's not getting any younger. And yes your D was that bad - your teams GAA was tied with Buffalo's - who was one of the worst teams in the league.

This is where he's ranked over the last 5 years with goalies who've played 40+ games (12/13, I changed that to 30+).
SV%: 13th, 9th, 10th, 4th, 4th,
GAA: 20th, 7th, 8th, 4th, 5th

[/QUOTE]

One outlier season due to injury, presendents trophy, SCF final and this thing called the Vezna plus many nominations. Yeah Lundqvist sucks. Hahaha. Name a goalie who has played more playoff games than Lundqvist in your little time frame. We wait.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Gorton summed it up. 'We try to win". Players like that. Rangers don't tank and they actually value the team on the ice more than the prospects on a message board.

The New York Rangers Hockey Club doesn't tank period, good or bad or somewhere in between even in our dark years. If you respond please identify your team of choice.

 

[Trapper]

I'm curious what prospect pools win? You don't think the Rangers can pull off a deal or two. They just signed a player whose brother and father work for the Leafs. What a joke for Leaf fans to crap on the Rangers. Win something.

I think people are forgetting Vesey (yeah that guy) picked the Rangers. He picked them. The Rangers didn't fix the brakes on people's cars or put sleeping pills in their coffee. And why not, who wouldn't want to play in NY?
As I said earlier, the Rangers, the Leafs, the Habs, these are your billion dollar franchises, (you are welcome league) that drive revenue for all. It's better when all these teams are good.
The Rangers did exactly what the other teams did, pursue talent. Everyone needs to build, to cycle young players in with the vets or the core. The Wings got Dekeyser, Chicago got Panarin, etc., it's how things work.

 

[aufheben]

Damn. I go away for the weekend, and suddenly the Rangers are A) contenders and B) have a top 5 forward group.

If NYR is adding as much young NHL talent as you're saying they are, then that only means that they're not nearly as deep as you've suggested they are. I think you're wrong about Brassard/Zib (at least when it comes to the next season or two), but that's more opinion then anything. Time will tell how that plays out - the good news for NYR is time is to their benefit there.

Is Lundqvist still a top 5? Because looking at the stats, he's becoming more and more average - and he's not getting any younger. And yes your D was that bad - your teams GAA was tied with Buffalo's - who was one of the worst teams in the league.

This is where he's ranked over the last 5 years with goalies who've played 40+ games (12/13, I changed that to 30+).
SV%: 13th, 9th, 10th, 4th, 4th,
GAA: 20th, 7th, 8th, 4th, 5th

Yeah these rankings look very different when you adjust it to goalies who actually play as many games as him.

 

[Shootertooter]

Yeah these rankings look very different when you adjust it to goalies who actually play as many games as him.

10 30+ win seasons going back to 2006. Only the strike shortened season he didn't get 30, he got 24.

He played 46 games in 2014/2015 and still won 30. The guy is an elite talent goalie period.

Career .921 sv %

The Rangers success is carried on the back of Lundqvist. He can't do it single handedly but he can come real close.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

10 30+ win seasons going back to 2006. Only the strike shortened season he didn't get 30, he got 24.

He played 46 games in 2014/2015 and still won 30. The guy is an elite talent goalie period.

Career .921 sv %

The Rangers success is carried on the back of Lundqvist. He can't do it single handedly but he can come real close.

I'm not so sure anyone is arguing that Hank was NEVER an elite goalie. Its very much clear he has been one of the top goalies in the world for years.

The argument is .. is he STILL a top 5 goalie? With that question, "career .921%" is irrelevant. In the 12/13 season, his numbers were pretty stellar (2.05 / .926). Since then? Meh. Still really good but not elite in any way. He will be turning 35 midway through the season. Its a reasonable assumption that since he hasnt been elite in 3 seasons, he wont somehow find the fountain of youth and magically bring his numbers back to 3 seasons ago. Particularly not with the defense in front of him that he will have this season.

Again, no one is doubting how incredible a career Hank has had. He certainly has. But its pretty evident that he is on the downside of it. There is no shame in that.

 

[Kitchener Boy]

Don't know how the Rangers got Vesey but they got a good one.

Die hard Bruins fan signs with Rangers same money, kind of cowardly.
May regret it one day.

 

[Riptide]

Don't know how the Rangers got Vesey but they got a good one.

Die hard Bruins fan signs with Rangers same money, kind of cowardly.
May regret it one day.

Why is that cowardly? Maybe he didn't want the pressure of playing in Boston, and signing in NYC allows him to just play, while doing so very close to home?

Look, I've been pretty vocal about how I think he made a mistake in choosing the Rangers as I've thought other teams were better poised to give him personal and team success, but never have I thought him cowardly for not signing in Boston.

Really, you're making leaps to conclusions where none exist due to (I assume) personal disappointment.

 

[VanIslander]

As I said earlier, the Rangers, the Leafs, the Habs, these are your billion dollar franchises, (you are welcome league) that drive revenue for all.

That's why they can afford to suck this century: economics. None of those have made it to the finals, let alone won, in over 20 years!

 

[Gardner McKay]

That's why they can afford to suck this century: economics. None of those have made it to the finals, let alone won, in over 20 years!

Rangers were there in 2014.

 

[Irishguy42]

That's why they can afford to suck this century: economics. None of those have made it to the finals, let alone won, in over 20 years!

Rangers were in the SCF in 2014, and were within 20 minutes of going to the SCF again during the 2015 playoffs...

Please know what you're talking about before you post something.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

still a really dumb move from both sides

 

[Kitchener Boy]

Why is that cowardly? Maybe he didn't want the pressure of playing in Boston, and signing in NYC allows him to just play, while doing so very close to home?

Look, I've been pretty vocal about how I think he made a mistake in choosing the Rangers as I've thought other teams were better poised to give him personal and team success, but never have I thought him cowardly for not signing in Boston.

Really, you're making leaps to conclusions where none exist due to (I assume) personal disappointment.

It's a dream come true to play for your favorite team.

Die-hard Bruins fan signing with the Rangers sounds kind of cowardly to me.
Is he afraid or something?
I would be kind of ashamed to do something like that.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

That's why they can afford to suck this century: economics. None of those have made it to the finals, let alone won, in over 20 years!

Oops...

 

[QJL]

I'm not so sure anyone is arguing that Hank was NEVER an elite goalie. Its very much clear he has been one of the top goalies in the world for years.

The argument is .. is he STILL a top 5 goalie? With that question, "career .921%" is irrelevant. In the 12/13 season, his numbers were pretty stellar (2.05 / .926). Since then? Meh. Still really good but not elite in any way. He will be turning 35 midway through the season. Its a reasonable assumption that since he hasnt been elite in 3 seasons, he wont somehow find the fountain of youth and magically bring his numbers back to 3 seasons ago. Particularly not with the defense in front of him that he will have this season.

Again, no one is doubting how incredible a career Hank has had. He certainly has. But its pretty evident that he is on the downside of it. There is no shame in that.

I'm not an advanced stats nerd so I can't give you the specifics but it's my understanding that Henrik was a top 3 goalie in the league last year when considering shot proximity and difficulty. His numbers were down because his defense was worse, but his actual performance remained on par with what he's done in the last half decade.

Vesey is a huge signing. Every player in the Rangers top 9 has a chance of eclipsing 40 points and guys like Kreider, Miller, and Hayes all have the potential for 60.

As everyone is saying, they need to improve the right side on D to become a real contender...or Dan Girardi needs to be reborn.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

still a really dumb move from both sides

Ok, I'll bite, why is this "really dumb move" for the Rangers....?

 

[Thordic]

It's a dream come true to play for your favorite team.

Die-hard Bruins fan signing with the Rangers sounds kind of cowardly to me.
Is he afraid or something?
I would be kind of ashamed to do something like that.

Oh please.

I'm a die-hard Rangers fan, but when I was 22 the Rangers were hot garbage. If I had the opportunity to play for a hot team back then (Avs, Wings, etc.) it would have been really tempting. As much as your love your hometown team, there are lots of other factors.

Not to mention one of his best friends plays on the Rangers, I think people underestimate that part of it.

 

[FLYLine27*]

That's why they can afford to suck this century: economics. None of those have made it to the finals, let alone won, in over 20 years!

Try again bud.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Oh please.

I'm a die-hard Rangers fan, but when I was 22 the Rangers were hot garbage. If I had the opportunity to play for a hot team back then (Avs, Wings, etc.) it would have been really tempting. As much as your love your hometown team, there are lots of other factors.

Not to mention one of his best friends plays on the Rangers, I think people underestimate that part of it.

Well maybe he is a "coward" but it's not like that is a bad thing or it doesn't make it a poor choice. There is added pressure playing on a hometown team. If your not progressing the way the fans think you should be that doesn't help in my opinion. In another place he can do his best without the fans and crazy expectation. I'm sure he has expectations to fulfill in NY but it's a little more breathing room I would assume. I don't think that makes him a coward just makes his choice to go elsewhere than home make sense to me.

 

[bigbadbruins1]

As irritating as it is as a Bruins fan to lose out on a hometown player I can say I'm not surprised. I would think the scrutiny is ten fold here for someone with such high expectations. By no means will he walk freely in NYC without criticism, but it won't be from friends, family, and also from others on his friends and family. Not to mention the ticket requests.
As a Bruins fan I'm still more concerned with building up our D core for the next season.

 

[NYR713]

That will be their Achilles heel going forward. That defensive group is aging fast, and they aren't known for their puck moving skills, which is vital in this league. The forward group is very deep and has a some great two-way players, but lacks that superstar in the mold of Kane, Crosby, Kopitar, etc.. many teams need to win a cup.

I just don't see them contending any time soon unless that defense gets settled. It's going to hold them back a lot, and unfortunately developing top-4 defensemen takes longer than developing top-6 wingers and top-6 centers, so while they're set on offense...building that defense to a contender level will take some time. By then Henrik may be declining, and who knows how the forwards will look if/when the defense is elite. The team's timeline to success just seems wonky to me.

Nice post... and I agree with most.

I think one thing that can completely change the outlook of NYR defense, that many outside the direct fans don't realize, is if AV wakes the **** up and comes to the realization that the guys he has on the back end cannot play strict man to man D in the defensive zone.

If he simplifies his defensive system, guys like Girardi and Staal are going to be much better. It's no coincidence that both immediately declined in play going to AV's system from Torts' system where they were all stars. Age and injuries have also played a part but nothing as big as the change in play style. Due to AV's system, there is also lack of structure on breakouts, which if simplified would also help these guys to not be turnover machines.

But, that's the big problems and there is a way to temper them if AV get's his head out of his ass. That is to be seen though. I can't imagine that nobody in the organization isn't in his ear telling him enough is enough in trying to fit the triangle piece in the square hole.

With the lack of traditional PMD's, McDonagh has to reach his full potential this season and be even more of a puck mover, no doubt. Klein is a solid top 4 guy who can move the puck and has an underrated shot, Skjei is going to turn heads this year as a McDonagh-lite type and has worked on the right side enough that they'll probably look to pair them up early to see how it works. McIlrath will hopefully step up and take his spot in the lineup because he looked perfectly capable of 3rd pairing minutes last season and was surprisingly mobile, more so than Girardi. Graves is another 6'4" 220 dman with a bomb of a shot and was an AHL all star as a rookie last season. He should get his cup of coffee this season too if there are injuries. No idea about Holden...haha

 

[Levitate]

That will be their Achilles heel going forward. That defensive group is aging fast, and they aren't known for their puck moving skills, which is vital in this league. The forward group is very deep and has a some great two-way players, but lacks that superstar in the mold of Kane, Crosby, Kopitar, etc.. many teams need to win a cup.

I just don't see them contending any time soon unless that defense gets settled. It's going to hold them back a lot, and unfortunately developing top-4 defensemen takes longer than developing top-6 wingers and top-6 centers, so while they're set on offense...building that defense to a contender level will take some time. By then Henrik may be declining, and who knows how the forwards will look if/when the defense is elite. The team's timeline to success just seems wonky to me.

Not really that their defensive group is aging so much as two players who are taking up a lot of cap space are aging and struggling (more pointedly, Girardi in particular, Staal still shows signs of life), and the desperately lack a real solid puck moving players on the right side. I agree they need to fix the defense...again really just a good puck mover on the right side would go a long way, and they have some decent prospects for the left side . They could at least be back to "pretty good" with just that.

I'm not an advanced stats nerd so I can't give you the specifics but it's my understanding that Henrik was a top 3 goalie in the league last year when considering shot proximity and difficulty. His numbers were down because his defense was worse, but his actual performance remained on par with what he's done in the last half decade.

Vesey is a huge signing. Every player in the Rangers top 9 has a chance of eclipsing 40 points and guys like Kreider, Miller, and Hayes all have the potential for 60.

As everyone is saying, they need to improve the right side on D to become a real contender...or Dan Girardi needs to be reborn.

Lundqvist had the best 5v5 save percentage in the league IIRC and faced the highest number of high danger shots, or something like that. Basically the PK killed his overall stats and he had a hard workload stopping a lot of chances from right in front of the net

 

[StuckOutHere]

Wait, is there a debate going on regarding whether or not Lundqvist is a great goalie? The Rangers have their flaws, but those are all in front of the crease. The defense is aging and filled with some serious under performers who would be hard to pawn off. They are more or less stuck there unless they have some prospect explode into a top pairing role. The forward group is deep, but lacks elite goal scoring capability. They are basically the St Louis Blues without Vladimir Tarasenko up front.