Player Discussion: Vesalainen Thread

[Positive]

Well it will be up to him to prove the pendants wrong.

Pundits. Sorry, can't resist sometimes.

 

[10Ducky10]

Button said he wasn't consistent enough (at all?).

 

[Hunter368]

IDK about that. I think I saw just about every home game he played in, and a fair few practices. There were def times when he seemed really frustrated with his play, especially since with the depleted D the Moose forwards were often stuck making their own transition plays, but no way was he just floating around in the games I saw. Maybe Button is basing that assessment on some insider knowledge rather than viewings or game tape?

Not sure, just repeated what he said......he absolutely roasted him.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Button said he wasn't consistent enough (at all?).

He hasn't been. He was doing great in the AHL when he first got here and for some reason decided he had to go back to play for Jokerit in the KHL and came back and was pretty poor. He got some consistency near the end of the season but IMO he isn't as close as some believe. He needed a solid start to the AHL this year and that isn't going to happen now

 

[10Ducky10]

Going to the KHL that year could come back to really bite him in the ass.

 

[Neuf]

I for one am shocked that a player that went back to the KHL has regressed. Shocked.

 

[DRW204]

What exactly did he say?

lots of talk about effort, work ethic and not everything being handed to them. i don't remember the exact show or segment, if you look through the 1290 page on soundcloud or website, you might be able to get his soundbite. I think it was atleast 2 weeks ago

 

[surixon]

lots of talk about effort, work ethic and not everything being handed to them. i don't remember the exact show or segment, if you look through the 1290 page on soundcloud or website, you might be able to get his soundbite. I think it was atleast 2 weeks ago

Thanks, well if that was the case hopefully this past season was a wake up call. He had no better example of what having an elite work ethic can do both in terms of your game and as well as the opportunities it will grant you in Harkins last year.

 

[DRW204]

skip to 16:20


it was during the morning show i heard the segment, so not sure if it was a replay of this, or if he was on as a guest. but this is one sound bite

 

[10Ducky10]

skip to 16:20


it was during the morning show i heard the segment, so not sure if it was a replay of this, or if he was on as a guest. but this is one sound bite

hahahahahaha...Button lambastes him...pretty good too.
Make or break this year KV.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

hahahahahaha...Button lambastes him...pretty good too.
Make or break this year KV.

But he sure had nice things to say about Gewink... Gewuck... Gewook... that German guy.

 

[RCAFguy]

He's dangerously close to being a total write off. People out there throwing him in trade proposals don't realize just how little value he has around league (other teams have scouts!). He's a reclamation project at this point.

 

[surixon]

The kid is only 20, a lot of this talk of him being a bust is premature. He still finished 3rd on a very low scoring team in points.

He still has a couple of years left before we should be having this convo.

 

[Whileee]

The kid is only 20, a lot of this talk of him being a bust is premature. He still finished 3rd on a very low scoring team in points.

He still has a couple of years left before we should be having this convo.

Yup. Imagine if Dallas had given up on Guryanov at age 21 after putting up only 34 points in 74 AHL games (6th on his AHL team).

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Yup. Imagine if Dallas had given up on Guryanov at age 21 after putting up only 34 points in 74 AHL games (6th on his AHL team).

OK, but did Gurianov go high-tailing it back to the KHL because he didn't want to play in the AHL, get panned by observers for playing like he didn't give a f*** a lot of the time, and come across as a smug, entitled jerk in interviews?

Maybe things like that more than any point production are what's got people calling bust early on this kid.

 

[surixon]

OK, but did Gurianov go high-tailing it back to the KHL because he didn't want to play in the AHL, get panned by observers for playing like he didn't give a f*** a lot of the time, and come across as a smug, entitled jerk in interviews?

Maybe things like that more than any point production are what's got people calling bust early on this kid.

I mean Heinola did the same thing last year when he returned to Europe for more cash instead of sticking it out in the AHL.

What Ves did is pretty common these days for European players with options. Start paying more to young players in the AHL and this won't be an issue going forward.

Also I have never seen the kid dog it in a game I've been to. Inconsistent yes but he wasn't mailing it in.

 

[BoneDocUK]

I mean Heinola did the same thing last year when he returned to Europe for more cash instead of sticking it out in the AHL.

What Ves did is pretty common these days for European players with options. Start paying more to young players in the AHL and this won't be an issue going forward.

Also I have never seen the kid dog it in a game I've been to. Inconsistent yes but he wasn't mailing it in.

There's a ton of interviews where Vincent and others talk about Vesa in very positive terms, without shying away from discussing his teething problems, areas for improvement, etc. I just don't see the player and person that Button is wittering on about in any of those or in the players I watched last season. I think a lot of it comes from his crap TC, and the difficulties that followed after his car accident with Niku.

I really think he's got all the skills to be a valuable player for the Jets and that his rep as a showboat who can't be arsed to work hard is largely a holdover from his junior days and likely hasn't been true for some time.

Also, he's our damn prospect, in a cupboard that isn't exactly the envy of the league. I'm always a fan of any Jets prospect, and want to see all of them succeed. One of the best and most absorbing parts of fandom for me.

https://illegalcurve.com/winnipeg-j...fsson-developed-chemistry-on-and-off-the-ice/

https://illegalcurve.com/manitoba-m...ect-kristian-vesalainen-and-a-sami-niku-note/

https://thehockeywriters.com/jets-vesalainen-top-prospect-tsn-snub/

 

[DRW204]

He's dangerously close to being a total write off. People out there throwing him in trade proposals don't realize just how little value he has around league (other teams have scouts!). He's a reclamation project at this point.

i wouldn't go that far. but he is a piece that should be dangled in order to help this lineup else where, such as 2C or RHD.

our top 6 wings, if laine sticks around, is pretty much locked for the next several years. as far as role on the team, he might be a 3rd line winger at the highest (barring injuries in the top6 or a trade ofc).

 

[Whileee]

OK, but did Gurianov go high-tailing it back to the KHL because he didn't want to play in the AHL, get panned by observers for playing like he didn't give a f*** a lot of the time, and come across as a smug, entitled jerk in interviews?

Maybe things like that more than any point production are what's got people calling bust early on this kid.

Maybe, but most of this is just speculation.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

There's a ton of interviews where Vincent and others talk about Vesa in very positive terms, without shying away from discussing his teething problems, areas for improvement, etc. I just don't see the player and person that Button is wittering on about in any of those or in the players I watched last season. I think a lot of it comes from his crap TC, and the difficulties that followed after his car accident with Niku.

I really think he's got all the skills to be a valuable player for the Jets and that his rep as a showboat who can't be arsed to work hard is largely a holdover from his junior days and likely hasn't been true for some time.

Also, he's our damn prospect, in a cupboard that isn't exactly the envy of the league. I'm always a fan of any Jets prospect, and want to see all of them succeed. One of the best and most absorbing parts of fandom for me.

https://illegalcurve.com/winnipeg-j...fsson-developed-chemistry-on-and-off-the-ice/

https://illegalcurve.com/manitoba-m...ect-kristian-vesalainen-and-a-sami-niku-note/

https://thehockeywriters.com/jets-vesalainen-top-prospect-tsn-snub/

The Jets will of course speak in positive terms about their players and prospects. Now, I don't know how much of Button's evaluation came from his personal eye test, comments he's heard privately or maybe just being a couple of fingers deep in the Lagavulin when he did that interview. But I think it rare for a commentator to just go off on a kid like that, and to use the currently much over-quoted expression, where there's smoke there's fire.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I mean Heinola did the same thing last year when he returned to Europe for more cash instead of sticking it out in the AHL.

What Ves did is pretty common these days for European players with options. Start paying more to young players in the AHL and this won't be an issue going forward.

Also I have never seen the kid dog it in a game I've been to. Inconsistent yes but he wasn't mailing it in.

And I was just as unimpressed by Heinola doing it. We'll see how things turn out for him, but right now I'm getting a bit leery of adding more Finns into our prospect pool. They might be the new Russians.

 

[surixon]

And I was just as unimpressed by Heinola doing it. We'll see how things turn out for him, but right now I'm getting a bit leery of adding more Finns into our prospect pool. They might be the new Russians.

I'm just leary of their top league right now. It seems so many young players perform in it these days but then come over and struggle.

 

[Bananana]

And I was just as unimpressed by Heinola doing it. We'll see how things turn out for him, but right now I'm getting a bit leery of adding more Finns into our prospect pool. They might be the new Russians.

Most European players do their D+1 in their home country, unless they're coming straight to the NHL. Guys that go D+1 to the AHL are the outliers, so no one should have issue with Heinola going back last year. The problem with Vesalainen was that he pulled his stunt in D+2 when the Jets org would typically want prospects to come to North America to be developed with their own coaches under the right culture and systems.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

The Jets will of course speak in positive terms about their players and prospects. Now, I don't know how much of Button's evaluation came from his personal eye test, comments he's heard privately or maybe just being a couple of fingers deep in the Lagavulin when he did that interview. But I think it rare for a commentator to just go off on a kid like that, and to use the currently much over-quoted expression, where there's smoke there's fire.

That's not not a thing with him, hey? I caught an interview - a video interview - with him at the 2017 Hlinka and he was in rough shape.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

I'm just leary of their top league right now. It seems so many young players perform in it these days but then come over and struggle.

I think it makes a lot of sense, personally. It's a high level league, but it's behind at least the AHL, KHL and NHL, so when a player is good enough to be playing in one of those higher leagues but hasn't actually moved yet, they're going to dominate weaker competition, even with a poorer all-around game, less physical development and less experience. Their natural talent level is just that much higher than the players they're playing against and that could cause a confirmation bias in the player that they're more developed than they are.

This would likely lead to complacency in the player regarding their need to focus on their development and likely cause them to be frustrated with things like ice time, linemates and annoying coaches whinging about "defense," and "board battles."

To me, this isn't anything to do with Liiga itself, but the danger of leaving a big fish in a small pond.