Player Discussion: Vesalainen Thread

[GaryPoppins]

The main difference then was while we were the farm team of the Canucks, the Moose was owned by TNSE so a balance needed to be made between development of Canuck prospects and icing a veteran team that prioritized winning over development.The current organization has made it clear the Moose is for the development of their young prospects. They aren't looking to get established AHL vets to take on the important roles and eat up ice time. They want their kids on the ice late in the 3rd when the game is on the line. They want them on the PP and PK etc. Sitting on the bench watching young prospects play the important roles is not particularly appealing to career AHLers.

there’s also the harm of subjecting your prospects to getting crap-kicked each and every year. Kills the confidence and creates a bad environment.

These prospects don’t need to be handed things in the AHL. I’d rather have some vets there for them to learn from and steal responsibilities away from as they progress.

I’ve attempted to follow and support the moose but every game I’ve gone to outside of 1, they’ve lost in spectacular fashion.

 

[BoneDocUK]

there’s also the harm of subjecting your prospects to getting crap-kicked each and every year. Kills the confidence and creates a bad environment.

These prospects don’t need to be handed things in the AHL. I’d rather have some vets there for them to learn from and steal responsibilities away from as they progress.

I’ve attempted to follow and support the moose but every game I’ve gone to outside of 1, they’ve lost in spectacular fashion.

Yeah. I think we saw 5 wins last year with our package, against a ton of losses, many of them dispiriting blowouts. This year I'm not coaching a team, so won't be going to many games. Even the steady run of snax, lighting effects and Fortnite dances couldn't motivate my kids to go for the last stretch.

I think the shift to the Jets' "'systems" in recent years, though it makes sense from a dev standpoint, has impacted the Moose, partly because they lack the standout personnel who can transition into a meaningful attack once the opposing team has tired of owning the puck in the Moose end. But their PP tended to look way better than the Jets in terms of movement and chances, especially with Harkins as distributor. Vesa is always a threat on the PP, and his wheels and puck protection skills make him an interesting transition player also. If he hits his stride he's more an Armia replacement than a 4th-line slug, IMO, with slightly less PK genius but a much better shot arsenal. He was pretty much doing it alone on the Moose for a while there.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I agree the development system sucks. Losing constantly hurts our prospects more then learning the Jets way. That’s why so many players are taking longer then expected. And struggling when they get up to the big club

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I think the shift to the Jets' "'systems" in recent years, though it makes sense from a dev standpoint, has impacted the Moose, partly because they lack the standout personnel who can transition into a meaningful attack once the opposing team has tired of owning the puck in the Moose end.

Brilliant!

 

[tbcwpg]

he could have been included in a trade for a top 6 c years ago when he was getting hype and was ranked pretty highly among prospect analysts. What was difference between him and a value of a prospect like Tage Thompson in 2018? Vesalainen was probably higher. But now? who knows, his value and hype is definitely not the same anymore, hence why i am questioning if he could land one. not sure what the issue is here...

So your issue is that he wasn't included as part of a larger trade with two forwards on the roster and a 1st for Ryan O'Reilly. Your wording of "he could've been traded years ago for a top 6 C" was confusing to me because he has only been in the org for 3 years, and he wouldn't return a top 6 C himself anyway.

 

[DRW204]

So your issue is that he wasn't included as part of a larger trade with two forwards on the roster and a 1st for Ryan O'Reilly. Your wording of "he could've been traded years ago for a top 6 C" was confusing to me because he has only been in the org for 3 years, and he wouldn't return a top 6 C himself anyway.

Late 1st, vesalainen and 2 cap dumps for ROR at 7.5m for 5 years. We probably have the best top 6 C duo in the West with that.

 

[tbcwpg]

Late 1st, vesalainen and 2 cap dumps for ROR at 7.5m for 5 years. We probably have the best top 6 C duo in the West with that.

Probably but no way of knowing if that was a possibility for the Jets. Besides, I think Vesa will be a useful piece going forward.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Another year or two developing and then a year or two on the fourth line. I’m excited to see him make a difference 5 years from now

 

[Whileee]

A refresher... a tale of 3 big skilled European wingers:

D+3 season (AHL):

Vesalainen 0.50 points/game
Armia 0.50 points/game
Gurianov 0.46 points/game

 

[Do or Die]

If nothing else....we need to run in some of the "prospects" and quit populating our "depth" with veteran scrubs..

 

[10Ducky10]

If nothing else....we need to run in some of the "prospects" and quit populating our "depth" with veteran scrubs..

Vegas 2nd oldest team
Dallas 5th oldest team
Isles 6th oldest team
Jets 26th oldest team

I'd like to see Weise (2m) on the 4th line.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Vegas 2nd oldest team
Dallas 5th o ldest team
Isles 6th oldest team
Jets 26th oldest team

I'd like to see Weise (2m) on the 4th line.

Good post. I have always wanted to add vets to fill out the roster rather then keep getting younger and younger. I say this every offseason

 

[10Ducky10]

Good post. I have always wanted to add vets to fill out the roster rather then keep getting younger and younger. I say this every offseason

To me, it depends on the vet.
Weise would be good if he signed a one year deal and if he turned out well, I'd re-sign him to another year. Somebody like Toews (dream) would add a LOT of vet leadership and playoff experience.

 

[FonRiesen]

To me, it depends on the vet.
Weise would be good if he signed a one year deal and if he turned out well, I'd re-sign him to another year. Somebody like Toews (dream) would add a LOT of vet leadership and playoff experience.

THIS. Signing vets selectively in moderation. Maybe it's not possible for Winnipeg.

We should get older over time, BUT it should be because we're also keeping our good to adequate prospects and letting them mature here. Grab some young prospects when available and keep them, too. The problem is we keep displacing our 'adequate' prospects with objectively worse vets. Losing Armia hurt a lot, others to varying degrees. But what's worse is we have absolute crap vets blocking development of our younger 'adequate to poor' players. A poor prospect will make a few more mistakes due to inexperience, but they have a chance of keeping up with other teams' adequate players. The crappy vets don't make 'mistakes' per se, but they're incapable of matching other teams' adequate to poor players. The difference as I see it is that the crappy vets get more forgiveness from coaches because they know they suck, and expectations for playing hockey is lower for them. To me it's worse to simply not be capable of a play, than making a mistake you can learn from.

The ones that keep a job get away with the intangibles myth. In reality, maybe those crappy vets should become 'player coaches' if young players REALLY need crappy players to mentor them. To avoid problems with the union, they should be considered coaches that never play, but will be treated like players in practices and then they could "say the right words" behind the bench without wasting a roster spot. Apparently some kids can't hear "the right words" from real coaches.

I'm glad we have at least keep most of our great players (Schief, Ehlers, Laine so far, and yes, Wheeler who's had both skill and 'intangibles' until he was promoted above his interpersonal skills to captain - though Maurice could be to blame here as well by putting too much pressure on Wheels to do Maurice's job for him).

It's all easier said than done though.

 

[10Ducky10]

I'd pick up Maroon if he played for 1.2m for a season.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I'd pick up Maroon if he played for 1.2m for a season.

wanted him last off-season. Would love him

 

[DRW204]

Probably but no way of knowing if that was a possibility for the Jets. Besides, I think Vesa will be a useful piece going forward.

He might be. But our top 6 wingers are pretty much locked and loaded for the next few years. However we are in offseason #3 of trying to find a stud top 6 c

 

[Benjamin Doveridge]

Also, speaking of the Moose, why can’t we ever have a competitive team in the AHL? It would probably help our prospects out a bit. Instead, our team is garbage in the A every year.

To me it shows that our system sucks in both leagues. Works a little bit better in the NHL because of the high end talent on the team.

 

[Jets4Life]

I've been hearing a bit about Vesalainen, and the consensus seems to be he has the build and the tools to be a star, but just not the heart. It would be a shame, but there are many hockey analysts writing him off, due to him not having the meddle to become an NHL player.

 

[surixon]

I've been hearing a bit about Vesalainen, and the consensus seems to be he has the build and the tools to be a star, but just not the heart. It would be a shame, but there are many hockey analysts writing him off, due to him not having the meddle to become an NHL player.

Well it will be up to him to prove the pendants wrong.

 

[DRW204]

I've been hearing a bit about Vesalainen, and the consensus seems to be he has the build and the tools to be a star, but just not the heart. It would be a shame, but there are many hockey analysts writing him off, due to him not having the meddle to become an NHL player.

Button had some pretty damning comments on him on 1290 couple weeks back. not sure how true they are since i don't follow him+the Moose heavily though

 

[surixon]

Button had some pretty damning comments on him on 1290 couple weeks back. not sure how true they are since i don't follow him+the Moose heavily though

What exactly did he say?

 

[Hunter368]

What exactly did he say?

Roasted him, called his effort pathetic if I recall.

 

[Bob E]

Boy, are we about to lose a significant number of our Finnish contingent all in one off-season? Laine, Vesalainen and Niku?

Though, with Heinola coming over to Canada likely full time, I would think the Jets would want to help him get acclimated to NA with a fellow countryman to help him adjust. Like Laine did last year making him Finnish meatballs etc.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Roasted him, called his effort pathetic if I recall.

IDK about that. I think I saw just about every home game he played in, and a fair few practices. There were def times when he seemed really frustrated with his play, especially since with the depleted D the Moose forwards were often stuck making their own transition plays, but no way was he just floating around in the games I saw. Maybe Button is basing that assessment on some insider knowledge rather than viewings or game tape?